Cryptic problem: RO membranes clog up. Please help

[a.t.t.r]

I don’t think it is a pressure issue if it gets worse over time.
Also “corrosion inhibitor is added to help prevent leaching of lead and copper that might be in household plumbing. Fluoride is added to protect teeth. Powdered activated carbon and potassium permanganate may also be added to the treatment process to remove taste and odor- causing compounds.” From your cities report. Maybe that is causing some issue? Not sure what it is or how it would interact in a membrane.

 

[rajdude]

What is the hardness of the tap water? Temperature? City use any odd chemicals for heavy metal binding or flocculants?

From my notes
Measured 8/31/2021

Tap water parameters at our house

GH = 143 ppm or 8 GH
(Moderately hard water)
TDS = 171


City water report can be seen here:

Fairfax Water Service Area | Fairfax Water - Official Website

www.fairfaxwater.org

Drink Up! Our Tap Water Quality in Fairfax County | News Center

Turning on the tap and having an affordable, reliable source of high-quality water is something most of us take for granted in Fairfax County. Taking care of our water is a joint effort by the county and Fairfax Water, as well as other local, state and federal entities. The team of...

www.fairfaxcounty.gov

 

[rajdude]

I don’t think it is a pressure issue if it gets worse over time.
Also “corrosion inhibitor is added to help prevent leaching of lead and copper that might be in household plumbing. Fluoride is added to protect teeth. Powdered activated carbon and potassium permanganate may also be added to the treatment process to remove taste and odor- causing compounds.” From your cities report. Maybe that is causing some issue? Not sure what it is or how it would interact in a membrane.

hmmm...first...thanks for looking at my water report

I wonder where that info is....I just downloaded the pdf file from here, could not find it, but since it is 32 pages long, maybe I missed it.

Anyway, it is what it is....I wonder if there is something I can do about it. These membranes are costing too much..............actually the waste water generated by this RO system is costing way too much! I get warnings from the water company every water bill.......urging me to check why I am using so much water. Seriously! :-(

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Hmmm...I can flush longer.

Mineral deposits? I think I have heard that suggestion in the past. How do get rid or mineral deposits? Or is there a way to only prevent mineral deposits?

Loss of pressure does not seem to be happening....judging from the pressure shown on the gauge right after installing fresh carbon+sediment blocks....and comparing to a few months down the line.

There are 2 solenoid valves right after the T which splits the output of the membrane(s) to the two Brutes. I can independently turn them on/off.

It usually does not flow to both at the same time. I usually fill the fish tank Brute first....but ...depends on if my lovely wife is complaining of no RO water in the kitchen or not ;-)

Mineral deposits can be reduced if you run a water softener before the rodi. Do you have excessively hard water? Do you get a lot of deposits around your faucets, shower heads, and water spots on the shower door and washed glasses? Even with hard water I would think you would get more life. Did you flush the carbon blocks when you replaced them?

 

[KrisReef]

How old is the water supply pipe to your home? Is it galvanized pipe?

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

yes, I changed the restrictor when I added the BRS dual membrane "water saver kit". However, I believe it was the same flow rating.

Both were 75 GPD ..... "were" because now I have only one....as an (unsuccessful) experiment.
The single replacement membrane is the exact same model.

No I am not 100% certain of the pressure. I did not trust the gauge since I have only one. However, I have done extensive testing with Frank. Took the whole kit outside on the deck. I have another gauge which screws straight into the hose bib. It indicated 75 psi. Connected the RO filter straight to that spigot (as a test)...but the RO water production did not increase. That was October last year....so water was not too cold at that time of the year.

The water supply in the basement is from one of the piercing needle type thingy. It has been mentioned as a "suspect" for low water pressure. But that gauge! Maybe I have a bad one?

But if water pressure really is the problem, the RO water production should have increased when I had the system on the deck, right?

Do you still have an old clogged membrane? If so, cut it open and unroll it for craps and giggles. Note wether it’s white/tan dusty or hard, or if it’s slimy and dark.

 

[sneekapeek]

Why don’t you acid flush membranes instead of buying new? Or try injecting antiscalent to prevent this from occurring. Unfortunately some peoples water scales differently from others. Many applications use antiscalent when pulling from well water etc. I’d look into dissecting your parts to see if things are sealed properly and plumbed accordingly. Also get rid of your dribble valves and get some solenoids and electronic floats.

 

[KStatefan]

Do you keep the membrane wet between uses?

 

[rajdude]

Mineral deposits can be reduced if you run a water softener before the rodi. Do you have excessively hard water? Do you get a lot of deposits around your faucets, shower heads, and water spots on the shower door and washed glasses? Even with hard water I would think you would get more life. Did you flush the carbon blocks when you replaced them?

no, not excessively hard.

Tap water parameters at our house

GH = 143 ppm or 8 GH
(Moderately hard water)
TDS = 171


No we do not get deposits at all.

Yes, I flushed them before attaching output to membranes

 

[rajdude]

How old is the water supply pipe to your home? Is it galvanized pipe?

House is 1985. I think everything is copper in this house.
No idea about main supply line.

 

[rajdude]

Do you still have an old clogged membrane? If so, cut it open and unroll it for craps and giggles. Note wether it’s white/tan dusty or hard, or if it’s slimy and dark.

No I threw the old one away. But the current one is nearing end of its life.
so I am 100% up for this science experiment ;-)

 

[rajdude]

Mineral deposits can be reduced if you run a water softener before the rodi. Do you have excessively hard water? Do you get a lot of deposits around your faucets, shower heads, and water spots on the shower door and washed glasses? Even with hard water I would think you would get more life. Did you flush the carbon blocks when you replaced them?

Wait, water softener before rodi filter.......I have thought about that. Researched also into it.........but those softner units are all huge, and expensive.........meant for whole house application.

 

[CoralB]

Water pressure should be a constant 75-80 psi so a pump may be needed . 1 micron pre is good , potassium permanganate is a strong oxygenator not sure why anyone would suggest you use that in line , acid flushing membranes? Why ! . I wouldn’t . 171 tds before the RO is not bad . It wouldn’t hurt to get a full run down of your water parameters to see exactly what’s in it then figure out what you need . After you get your water sample results call Aquafx and ask for jeromy . He will help you get set up . They in my experience give the best customer service and are not hard to speak to a live person with knowledge.

 

[rajdude]

Why don’t you acid flush membranes instead of buying new? Or try injecting antiscalent to prevent this from occurring. Unfortunately some peoples water scales differently from others. Many applications use antiscalent when pulling from well water etc. I’d look into dissecting your parts to see if things are sealed properly and plumbed accordingly. Also get rid of your dribble valves and get some solenoids and electronic floats.

hmmm........because I am not aware of this thing Really? I can do an acid flush? Gotta look it up Unless you have a link handy

So people add anti-scalent to their water? How, is it injected or leached into the lines using, for example, in a housing + a block.......like what I use to re-mineralize the drinking water here?

Actually I do have electronic floats and solenoids in both brutes. (Should post a photo). They all worked well until the electronics behind them fried. I have not gotten around replacing that stuff.

What is wrong with using float valves? dribble meaning? Do they add back pressure? Is that bad?

Sorry, kinda a newbie to all this........hence so many questions.

 

[rajdude]

Water pressure should be a constant 75-80 psi so a pump may be needed . 1 micron pre is good , potassium permanganate is a strong oxygenator not sure why anyone would suggest you use that in line , acid flushing membranes? Why ! . I wouldn’t . 171 tds before the RO is not bad . It wouldn’t hurt to get a full run down of your water parameters to see exactly what’s in it then figure out what you need . After you get your water sample results call Aquafx and ask for jeromy . He will help you get set up . They in my experience give the best customer service and are not hard to speak to a live person with knowledge.

Yeah, that also has been suggested. but I am too cheap to do it. I guess it is better to pay and find out what we are dealing with..........instead of buying membranes, right! LoL

Who what would you suggest for getting my water tested properly, for RO water production?

 

[rajdude]

by the way, I have a question:

Usually, how much water do you guys produce in one day?

I suspect I use too much RO water in my DT....at around 30 - 40 gallons of RO water every 2 days.

 

[KStatefan]

How big is your display

 

[Spare time]

I could. But does not look like that the sediment filter is getting clogged.......based on non-existent pressure drop.

Ah I misunderstood.

 

[Spare time]

by the way, I have a question:

Usually, how much water do you guys produce in one day?

I suspect I use too much RO water in my DT....at around 30 - 40 gallons of RO water every 2 days.

30 to 40 gallons EVERY 2 DAYS?????? So you are going through a 150 gallons from the faucet every 2 days? That is an insane amount. That is over a 1000 gallons in half a month.

 

[rajdude]

How big is your display

it is a 75 gallon + 30 gallon sump.

But it is not saltwater. It is a freshwater planted Discus tank, which for some weird reasons, I got convinced that re-mineralized RO water is best. Has CO2 injection and high power lights, like used in saltwater tanks.

Tank needs lot of water change for keeping Nitrates low :-(

I do have a refugium growing algae........like an algae scrubber. Does not make a huge difference for Nitrates though.