Cryptic zone - do you believe in it ?

[Timfish]

@ Mav3rick478,
Probably not much. As sponges are a 1000X faster than bacterioplankton at removing the labile DOC produced and they readily colonize dim and unlit areas everywhere in a system not a lot of surface area is going to be needed for a cryptic refugium. If you feel a canister filter would be better for your system than adding rubble or a section to your refugium I would think a 6" diameter canister would be more than adequate.

 

[KenO]

I want some input, like I said earlier this would be a great addition to a filter system running a refugium and skimmer. So how big of a zone would you need to supplement the refugium for a 75 gallon tank? I’m wondering due to lack of space in my stand could I use those big media filter canisters that are used for filtering water for houses? Basically a huge RODI canister but they are not clear, usually blue so no light could get in. Could even run a couple inline to double the surface area or maybe put them inside or behind a controller cabinet.

I can’t answer the question on size, but what type of fittings are on that type of canister? Can those canisters be opened to put rocks into it? Have you looked at the Norwesco type storage tanks?

 

[Victor_C3]

I want some input, like I said earlier this would be a great addition to a filter system running a refugium and skimmer. So how big of a zone would you need to supplement the refugium for a 75 gallon tank? I’m wondering due to lack of space in my stand could I use those big media filter canisters that are used for filtering water for houses? Basically a huge RODI canister but they are not clear, usually blue so no light could get in. Could even run a couple inline to double the surface area or maybe put them inside or behind a controller cabinet.

From what I’ve read in literature, typically the cryptic zone is 2/3 of the display volume. However, that is when the cryptic zone is the primary means of filtration for the system.

If you’re looking to simply add biodiversity, any volume would be an improvement.

 

[mav3rick478]

I can’t answer the question on size, but what type of fittings are on that type of canister? Can those canisters be opened to put rocks into it? Have you looked at the Norwesco type storage tanks?

They are like any other RODI unit just bigger canisters, 20" tall and I believe a 4" opening.

@ Mav3rick478,
Probably not much. As sponges are a 1000X faster than bacterioplankton at removing the labile DOC produced and they readily colonize dim and unlit areas everywhere in a system not a lot of surface area is going to be needed for a cryptic refugium. If you feel a canister filter would be better for your system than adding rubble or a section to your refugium I would think a 6" diameter canister would be more than adequate.

From what I’ve read in literature, typically the cryptic zone is 2/3 of the display volume. However, that is when the cryptic zone is the primary means of filtration for the system.

If you’re looking to simply add biodiversity, any volume would be an improvement.

Yes just thinking about adding more biodiversity. Hmm maybe then a dual reactor style with the first being cryptic with rubble rock and the second maybe housing a little carbon.

 

[KenO]

As a reminder I am using a 40 breeder that is tied into my main setup. The 40 breeder is fed from the sump. About a month ago I added 6" of oolite sand to the 40 breeder to create a remote DSB and seeded the sand with live sand, mud and a worm pack from Indo-Pacific Sea Farms in Hawaii.

For the cryptic zone, I built a PVC stand to hold my LR. I didn't want the LR sitting directly on the sand. Some articles I read said it was ok to have rocks on the sand other said no rocks on the sand, this was for the DSB. Plus I felt the rocks raised above the sand would provide better water flow through the rocks.

My main purpose for the RDSB and Cryptic Zone was for biodiversity in my system. If I get NO3 and PO4 reductions that would be an added bonus. Previous tanks that I've owned had DSB's in the main tanks and those systems seemed to run really smooth with great coral growth. I also noticed in the same setups I would get a lot of sponge growth on the undersides of the rock.

I also started carbon dosing about a week ago. I have read and seen that carbon dosing will increase sponge growth. So with an additional food source, the sponges now have an ideal place to grow. The LR I used for the cryptic zone have been in my tanks from 1-5 years with some of it being actual ocean LR.

I did a couple of top down photos (you can see some mini brittle stars) and I removed the cardboard covering the side of the 40 breeder to show the stand and LR. I will update as time goes on.

 

[mav3rick478]

@KenO how much flow is running through the CZ?

 

[KenO]

Great question. The tank gets about 800 gph and I have a huge 1600 gph bean overflow. Once the water gets into the tank it spreads out. The flow slows down enough that the detritus in the system settles out on top of the DSB. The CZ is on the opposite side of the tank and past the ghost overflow. So the actual flow is fairly slow and spread out. When I put phytoplankton into the tank it spreads slowly through the CZ area.

 

[KenO]

So as for flow, I thought a video would be a great way to show the flow. I fed the tank its daily dose of phytoplankton and yeast. As you watch in the video you can see particles floating in the water as they pass over the white PVC pipe. Towards the later part of the video, I zoom in for a little better view.

 

[KenO]

In doing some further research, I came across a product called sodium silicate (liquid glass) which will add silica to the aquarium. Sponges can utilize silica to help them grow. So I ordered a bottle (received June 10th) and started dosing both my larger setup which has the cryptic zone as well as my 60 gallon cube tank which doesn't have a cryptic zone but does have some eggcrate material I added to the sump.

In the cryptic zone on my main setup, I am seeing more sponges both a translucent/off white and red. The translucent ones start off as a smooth looking sponge and then begin to become bumpy with numerous holes in them. The larger red one, now has a very distinct hole/tube and is growing in height.

 

[Smarkow]

In doing some further research, I came across a product called sodium silicate (liquid glass) which will add silica to the aquarium. Sponges can utilize silica to help them grow. So I ordered a bottle (received June 10th) and started dosing both my larger setup which has the cryptic zone as well as my 60 gallon cube tank which doesn't have a cryptic zone but does have some eggcrate material I added to the sump.

In the cryptic zone on my main setup, I am seeing more sponges both a translucent/off white and red. The translucent ones start off as a smooth looking sponge and then begin to become bumpy with numerous holes in them. The larger red one, now has a very distinct hole/tube and is growing in height.

Sounds cool. Where did you get the sodium silicate? How can you be sure it is pure - like no nasty preservatives? Any pics of the sponges, clear one sounds like maybe pineapple sponge?

 

[KenO]

I’ll get some pictures later. They are not pineapple sponges. I have a few of them but not in the cryptic zone.

Take a moment to read Randy’s article here on dosing sodium silicate.
https://reefs.com/magazine/silica-in-reef-aquariums/

This is what I purchased.

 

[Smarkow]

I’ll get some pictures later. They are not pineapple sponges. I have a few of them but not in the cryptic zone.

Take a moment to read Randy’s article here on dosing sodium silicate.
https://reefs.com/magazine/silica-in-reef-aquariums/

This is what I purchased.

Thanks! $20 for a gallon
Sponge power $70 for 100 mL
...

 

[KenO]

Thanks! $20 for a gallon
Sponge power $70 for 100 mL
...

Just make sure you cut the sodium silicate with RO/DI water before you use it. It will last a lifetime.

 

[KenO]

Here are some pictures.

The sponge is in the middle of the picture it's that red spot. You can see the hole/tube in it.

You can see the hole a little better in this picture. At the bottom of the picture where the red RO tubing is is a clam of some sort. I have a number of them on this rock.

Here is a larger red sponge that has started growing. Above it an all to the right of it are what looks like blurry sections on the rock. Those are all sponges.

A little more light on the same red sponge and the white blurry sponges.

Here you can see the clams a little better. The red sponge is actually growing on one of the clams. There is a limpet higher up in the picture. It is on a clam and there are clams to the left of the limpet. The clams have the white things extending from them. There is a large clam at the bottom of the picture left side.

There is a tannish colored sponge below the pinkish colored coral skeleton almost dead center.

 

[KenO]

Below my cryptic zone I have a RDSB. After feeding my fish I rinse the cup above the sand of the RDSB. Watch what happens.

 

[KenO]

Check out these deep sea sponges. One of them looks like E.T.

OER Updates: A Magnificent New Sponge from the Deep Gets a Name: NOAA Office of Ocean Exploration and Research

 

[luisgm]

I’ve been reading about cryptic fuges, trying to decide if it’s still worth. I filled up my hole sump with LV, and presumably it did work. But with every water change the sponges were exposed to air. Finally, I transferred all the rocks to a dedicated tank. The water flow goes below the rocks, which are suspended on egg crates, not allowing too much detritus to accumulate. And I have 2 3000l/h pumps blowing periodically this compartment (when I remember to turn on)

 

[Smarkow]

I’ve been reading about cryptic fuges, trying to decide if it’s still worth. I filled up my hole sump with LV, and presumably it did work. But with every water change the sponges were exposed to air. Finally, I transferred all the rocks to a dedicated tank. The water flow goes below the rocks, which are suspended on egg crates, not allowing too much detritus to accumulate. And I have 2 3000l/h pumps blowing periodically this compartment (when I remember to turn on)

Love this. How old is your tank??

 

[Daddy-o]

I started with a rubble section in my sump but it collected too much crap/detritus. I pulled it all out and went with a 40 gallon breeder that is plumbed to my multi tank system. I put about 100 pounds of rock in it. It only gets ambient light. It is bare-bottom and I placed pumps in the back corners that blow all the crap to the front so I can siphon it out. I stocked it with 50 damsels, some serpent stars and non-photosynthetic corals
Cheers! Mark

 

[Smarkow]

I started with a rubble section in my sump but it collected too much crap/detritus. I pulled it all out and went with a 40 gallon breeder that is plumbed to my multi tank system. I put about 100 pounds of rock in it. It only gets ambient light. It is bare-bottom and I placed pumps in the back corners that blow all the crap to the front so I can siphon it out. I stocked it with 50 damsels, some serpent stars and non-photosynthetic corals
Cheers! Mark

lol idk if "50 damsels" is a typo, a super Meta joke on this hobby, or exactly the fate that 50 damsels would deserve... but I love it