Cupramine dosing question.

[Smite]

I'm battling velvet. I've just set up a qt tank, 38 gallons of water (40 gallon tank). The directions say to add 1 ml for every 10.5 gallons, then again in 48hours. I'm assuming to get to the desired level slowly.

With velvet being so fast to kill, Ive been told to have get the copper level in the qt to .06 right away. Should I double the dosage to get the desired level? I have a test kit, but am trying to move quickly tonight to save my clowns, so any quick help is appreciated. Already lost my blue spot while at work.


Thanks!

Matt

 

[Spit.fire]

what kind of fish do you have? might have better luck running chloroquine phosphate for battling velvet, works amazing vs velvet or ich

 

[Smite]

Thanks Spit.fire. I may look into that in the future, but I needed to act fast and cupramine was the first thing I got my hands on. I'm not against changing it up down the road.

I caught my clowns tonight, they were in the worst shape, so that's good. My mata mata looks bad, but just couldn't catch him. I'm going to try a trap tomorrow.

I have:
1 neon goby
1 masked goby
2 bali pink anthias
1 lori anthia
1 mata mata tang
1 naso tang
pair of b/w percula
2 blue/green chromi
1 fire fish
1 leopard wrasse
1 melenarus wrasse

If I can, I'm going to buy another 29g, to separate the tangs and limit the bioload.

 

[Paranoiattack91]

Raising cupramine slowly is just to ease them into it. If they are on the verge of death then it is recommended to get it up to therapidic levels immediately. It may be harder on them but it's better than them dying overnight.

 

[Smite]

That's what I thought. I just wanted to clarify that the full dosage was indeed double the first day dosage. I went ahead and did it, looked close in the test, although I'm not so sure about this seachem test. Doesn't seem very precise

 

[melypr1985]

Hi there @Smite Sorry to hear about your velvet troubles. You'll definitely need to get all your fish out of the display and into QT as soon as possible. Leave your DT fallow (without fish) for 6 weeks. Keep plenty of fresh saltwater on hand for water changes - lots of water changes to battle ammonia in the first week or two. Do you have an ammonia badge? It's a necessity in the presence of copper.
The test kit your using can be confusing, but it does work. I have the same one and I always use two "bubbles", tank water goes in both, but the reagents only go in one. It makes it a bit easier to see a change in the color. You also have to make sure you wait the prescribed time to see the full color change.

 

[Smite]

Hi there @Smite Sorry to hear about your velvet troubles. You'll definitely need to get all your fish out of the display and into QT as soon as possible. Leave your DT fallow (without fish) for 6 weeks. Keep plenty of fresh saltwater on hand for water changes - lots of water changes to battle ammonia in the first week or two. Do you have an ammonia badge? It's a necessity in the presence of copper.
The test kit your using can be confusing, but it does work. I have the same one and I always use two "bubbles", tank water goes in both, but the reagents only go in one. It makes it a bit easier to see a change in the color. You also have to make sure you wait the prescribed time to see the full color change.

Thanks for the tip on the test. I do have the ammonia badge. I'm mixing up some more water today but I'll probably need to get another Brute so I can have the total water volume backed up.

Thanks for everyone's help it's much appreciated.

 

[Humblefish]

Just seeing this now...

You will need to raise the Cu level up to full therapeutic ASAP; so that means dosing 2 ml of Cupramine for every 10.5 gallons immediately. You may lose some fish this way, but I promise you velvet will take them down quicker than copper intolerance. The good news is all of the fish you listed are fairly copper tolerant species. :)

I would also give the worst looking fish a FW dip and/or chemical bath. Do you have access to formalin or acriflavine? I will post info on how to do the FW dip below.

 

[Humblefish]

Freshwater Dip: Provides temporary relief for Brooklynella, Flukes, Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly even Ich & Uronema marinum (both unproven). Can be used to confirm the presence of Flukes.

How To Treat - Fill a bucket with RODI water, and use a heater to match the temperature to the water the fish is coming from. Aerate the water heavily for at least 30 minutes prior to doing the dip, then discontinue aeration while performing the dip. Fish aren’t overly pH sensitive for short durations like this, but you can squirt a little tank water into the dip just before the fish goes in to help bring it up.

Place the fish in the freshwater (FW) dip and observe closely. It is not unusual for them to freak out a little at first. Also, tangs are notorious for “playing dead” during a FW dip. The important thing is to watch their gills; they should be breathing heavily at all times during the dip. If breathing slows, it’s time to exit the dip. Dip the fish for no longer than 5 minutes. Multiple dips may be done, but it’s important to give your fish a day to recuperate in-between dips.

For flukes, use a dark (preferably black) bucket so you can see if tiny white worms fall out of the fish (especially out of the gills) at around the 3-4 minute mark. The worms will settle to the bottom, so you can use a flashlight to look for them there as well.

Pros - Provides temporary relief for a wide range of diseases in a chemical free environment. Can “buy you more time” until a proper treatment can be done.

Cons/Side Effects - Not a permanent “fix” for any disease, as FW dips are not potent enough to eradicate all of the parasites/worms afflicting the fish. Some fish can have an adverse reaction to a FW dip by appearing unable to maintain their equilibrium once returned to the aquarium. If this happens, hold the fish upright (using latex, nitrile or rubber gloves), and gently glide him through the water (to get saltwater flowing through the gills again). It is also a good idea to place the fish in an acclimation box until he appears “normal”.

 

[Smite]

Just seeing this now...

You will need to raise the Cu level up to full therapeutic ASAP; so that means dosing 2 ml of Cupramine for every 10.5 gallons immediately. You may lose some fish this way, but I promise you velvet will take them down quicker than copper intolerance. The good news is all of the fish you listed are fairly copper tolerant species. :)

I would also give the worst looking fish a FW dip and/or chemical bath. Do you have access to formalin or acriflavine? I will post info on how to do the FW dip below.

Thanks Himblefish! I read your sticky threads on QT and beating velvet. I've only caught the clowns so far, but they went through the 5 minute fw dip followed by 75 minute red ruby reef bath. They are now in QT, I did end up raising the dosage before going to bed. I still think it may be low, hard to tell on the test.

I'm going to try and build a fish trap to catch the rest today. My Mata Mata looks bad, so I hope I can get him in time.

Thanks for everyone's help. It's much appreciated.

 

[melypr1985]

Thanks Himblefish! I read your sticky threads on QT and beating velvet. I've only caught the clowns so far, but they went through the 5 minute fw dip followed by 75 minute red ruby reef bath. They are now in QT, I did end up raising the dosage before going to bed. I still think it may be low, hard to tell on the test.

I'm going to try and build a fish trap to catch the rest today. My Mata Mata looks bad, so I hope I can get him in time.

Thanks for everyone's help. It's much appreciated.

Good luck with the trap. I didn't have any luck with them myself and had to take all the rock and coral out of my tank - along with most of the water- catch my fish for QT. Hopefully you have better luck than me with that. Since time is of the essence here, it might be the way you have to go to save your fish.

 

[Smite]

Good luck with the trap. I didn't have any luck with them myself and had to take all the rock and coral out of my tank - along with most of the water- catch my fish for QT. Hopefully you have better luck than me with that. Since time is of the essence here, it might be the way you have to go to save your fish.

Yeah I hope that's not the case. All my fish hand feed, so I'm hoping they won't be spooked by the trap. If it comes down to it, I'll pull the coral and rock.

My work hours are long, so the soonest I can even attempt pulling everything safely would be the weekend. Hopefully I can catch them by then.

 

[Humblefish]

You need a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit to measure Cupramine. 0.35 mg/L is the minimal therapeutic dose, but 0.5 mg/L is much easier to read on the test kit so that's what I would ultimately shoot for.

 

[Smite]

You need a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit to measure Cupramine. 0.35 mg/L is the minimal therapeutic dose, but 0.5 mg/L is much easier to read on the test kit so that's what I would ultimately shoot for.

Perfect. I was shooting for .6 so maybe I am there then. Thanks.