Curious why so many people recommend h202

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rhostam

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chaoticreefer

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I wanted it to be an open discussion, I just don’t think we understand the long term effects. I was under the impression that food grade things were food grade safe for humans, not animals/plants/corals in all cases.

Would be very curious of Randy’s thoughts on all of this. I’m no chemist by any means just what I observe after a long time in the hobby. H202 was not a thing associated with reef tanks a few years ago, and I’ve yet to seen anyone truly benefit from it over a long period.
On a side note - very happy for Lionel Messi and Argentina they are deserving of this win!
Actually, H2O2 was popular in Europe before it was picked up in USA. I tried it 8-10 years ago, I found it to be beneficial. It keeps your water clear, but at same time it's a little hassle, so I didn't stick with it.
 

brandon429

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I believe we can say the tin and stabilizers simply don’t matter. Everyone who does ICP is jacked on tin anyway, without peroxide, plus there’s the 300 sole pages of work prior to consider for patterns. The stabilizers don’t matter or the work threads would show losses, this is where anecdote merges into show me some better patterns don’t leave those links as the sole example set if someone can link a stash of better data.


this makes me see that chemistry sometimes requires a contextual analysis vs a paper/strict formula analysis to get the final truth


100% of initial predictions involved loss of biofilter, we directly show the opposite to be true (that mild peroxide dosing temporarily boosts oxidation efficiency, as a diluted oxidizer)


the tin and stabilizers were always said to be problematic but we simply find no effects that log as a negative outcome. We find and logged zero consequence regarding tin and stabilizers and my own reef has had more 35% perx pumped through it than anyone, I still have pods and coralline and zero bad algae / haven’t needed it on substrates in years. its use doesn’t have to last forever, it’s a gardening tool initially.

our negative outcomes are growback of the intended target… it’s not environmental losses within the tank. Everyone who tried to squelch early forum work in peroxide (TMZ from reefcentral, Disc-1, for you) painted a picture of big consequence


But in linked context on the prior page, the consequence of running fun peroxide testing in others tanks for ten years has been meeting lots of happy reefers who chose not to take the reef down.

I have not seen really any chemistry predictions actually pan out in post patterns logged prior page, it’s a bunch of opposite outcomes from prediction.
 
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hart24601

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At this point I think we are beating a dead horse. To the OP original question I think plenty of chimed in of why they recommend it and for what purpose along with long term results. As more people try it particularly for algae, you will just see more recommendations, just as we have seen over the past few years, because for so many it works very well. Vibrant works too for large scale treatment but I had far more negative reactions to vibrant but I never dosed h2o2 just spot treated.

But again as to why we see it….. because it works for so many without adverse effects and the impact is dramatic and clear, unlike many reef “treatments”.
 
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brandon429

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I have one unstated use for which no replacement works better

nobody mentioned scratchless tank care


consider this costly acrylic tube tank. One single scratch would be so annoying I wouldn’t want to own it, pristine is best. When dosing ferts and bright light we know green calcareous macro algae will dot the surface and set in, opaquing the top half of the tank if left unchecked within two weeks


the hobby only offers scraping options, there’s no other way to deal with it


but 3% is magical: no matter how hazy I let it build, a simple drain water/catch in brute, expose algae walls, lightly wet with perx from a wash rag and let sit in the air five mins, refill, never scrape. Within 48 hours the scum is killed, sloughs off, and total clarity resumes am talking clarity like day one. No matter how bad I put it off


nothing can beat that method for scratch prevention, in fw planted setups. I adjusted the lighting levels down so only the top 1/4 gets strength and I simply don’t have to clean down low. Peroxide is 100% the reason this tank is scratchless going on three years, not once single scratch at all.


 

ScottR

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I see many recommendations that people add hydrogen peroxide to their tank for various issues. It usually seems this does nothing for them. Why are people doing this? I would never put this in my tanks. Most h202 contains tin
I dose H2O2. This isn’t anecdotal for me at all. It’s what keeps dinos away in my low nutrient system. No ifs, ands or buts. As for tin, here is my latest ICP. Notice I have no detectable tin. So does H2O2 add tin? I don’t see evidence as such.
 

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brandon429

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Scott that is fantastic, to have a log of any type where known repeated sinking of toxins should occur
not a shabby assessment test either, even if ICP isn't accepted by all there isn't much counter data to source for those measures.

That consistent low reading you show even after water dosing aligns with the hundred thousand after pics posted on google of simply happy reefs that dose it.

nice post that's helpful such that will reference that data on the first page of our peroxide thread work link, to have any measured insight on tin and stabilizers vs guessing is plain rare.

link #4 from the prior page has such convincing data on water-dosing of peroxide to fight dinos, your findings continue that trending.

I like how the list of peroxide sensitives is short, and not changing:
1. will kill hermodice fireworms and lysmata, other species like stenopus banded shrimps weren't as affected. lysmata shrimp are the single most weakest species we keep regarding peroxide dosage of all animals. I'm surprised showing them the bottle label doesn't kill them, something metabolically between lysmata and peroxide doesn't mix.

2. decorative macro for obvious reasons

3. xenia can melt at times, anemones tighten up but we haven't seen any die from peroxide dosing

4. coralline can easily bleach but tends to come back in the same spot/repigmentation

5. not a single species of fish we keep are on the known sensitives list, and nearly all corals tolerate the standard working dose of one mil 3% per 10 gallons.
 
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brandon429

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New chemistry data correlating to peroxide usage was just posted here, first time on the web I know of. nice thread.

no peroxide work in reefing was sanctioned back in the day. You had to risk your forum id to even post about it
 
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MixedFruitBasket

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If the h2o2 was made with distilled water instead of purified then it’s safe to use on the tank. It’s oxygen dosing. Shouldn’t have any fillers. I’m not a avid h2o2 doser but I know humblefish has used it on his fish and I’ve used it on algae once before. It helped my case but was not a permanent solution.
Unless it’s food grade you are sticking contaminants into your tank. The 3% h2o2 you buy at the store has stabilizers in it. They do not, by law, have to put what’s used as a stabilizer on the bottle. And there are worse things than tin.
 

atoll

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Actually, H2O2 was popular in Europe before it was picked up in USA. I tried it 8-10 years ago, I found it to be beneficial. It keeps your water clear, but at same time it's a little hassle, so I didn't stick with it.
Been using food grade hydrogen.peroxide in my Oxydators for about 30 years without a problem. They have been used in other countries in Europe longer. How long do you think people need to use them before we can give it the seal of approval long term would you suggest?
 

atoll

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Unless it’s food grade you are sticking contaminants into your tank. The 3% h2o2 you buy at the store has stabilizers in it. They do not, by law, have to put what’s used as a stabilizer on the bottle. And there are worse things than tin.
Of course and you can say similar about calcium and anything else you might put in your tank even commercially aquarium products can contain "other things" that might not be safe long term.
 

atoll

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You can also add hydrogen peroxide to your tank in the event of a power outage to provide oxygen to your fish (as a last resort) 5ml/10gal of 3% H2O2 will provide oxygen for up to 12 hours depending on stock and temperature.
I have done such many years ago. Can't recall the exact dosage but it was in a 130 tank about 25 years ago. The power was off all day for around 12 hours. Everything survived.
 

ScottR

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Of course and you can say similar about calcium and anything else you might put in your tank even commercially aquarium products can contain "other things" that might not be safe long term.
I have to agree Les. Anything we put in our tanks may and could contain stabilizers and other chemicals but we add without regard. For H2O2, I have never looked at it differently. I’m not going to play devils advocate here at all, but everything is subject to concern if you care about it enough.
 
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brandon429

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MixedFruitBasket

-Unless it’s food grade you are sticking contaminants into your tank. The 3% h2o2 you buy at the store has stabilizers in it. They do not, by law, have to put what’s used as a stabilizer on the bottle. And there are worse things than tin-


this claim must be checked against the mass link outcomes to the opposite on prior page. my own test vessel is ten years into testing and not a harm one, in fact all positive. nothing is building up, and any peroxide able to go in a human mouth or ear is able to be reefed with, we show to excess.



the correct takeaway must now be:


anyone who wants to dose peroxide isn't harming their tank, there are known sensitives to factor and upper limit safe dosing and the act is largely beneficial when matched to a reason to dose or use it.

we have more than one post now of seneye users showing that typical peroxide dosing increases slightly the bioload carry capacity/ammonia conversion rate during treatment. the exact opposite of what chemists told me would happen to bacteria happened. aerobes appreciate the influx turbo charge mode, their respective nostrils open wider :) and they turnover bioload much quicker when peroxide is dosed into the water. there is specifically not a sterilization effect, not to one single measurable degree in a reef tank


that's it, that's the new summary based on the big data sets. all else is forum repeat info to perpetuate an initial fear or consequence that never arose in actual testing. it looks bad on paper, works great in the context of a full reef tank logged for twelve years prior page, that's the conundrum to process of peroxide in the reef tank.
 
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Garf

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They’ve done trials over here in the rivers and lakes. Looks like they are going ahead;

 
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