Cyano with decent nutrient levels.

[Fish Fan]

Im not going to say new dry rock doesnt bind phosphates because I dont know for sure. My current reef has all dry rock and dry sand set it up in early '24 never bottomed out in either, phosphates were always slightly rising. Currently they are around .09-.12 been pretty steady for months though. Maybe I got lucky maybe its something in the way I handled the starting of the tank, idk.

I can't say for sure what's going on with my tank, I've never had a tank that had basically zero phosphate but high nitrate, I'm much more used to seeing both high nitrate and phosphate. This is the first time I've had to dose something like sodium phosphate, and I'm just doing it manually (because I hope I don't have to dose it forever), and if I am not around to dose it, I get dinos back with a vengeance.

 

[welshgazz]

I have no idea how I've apparently upset you so much with my reply, but I'm sorry

I believe your point is that new sand will experience an ugly phase and that's true. I believe you are also taking the OP's word that they have Cyano, but we don't actually know that for sure because we've not seen pictures, and as I've mentioned, the very low nitrate and phosphate is thought by many R2R members to be a cause of Dino outbreaks. I believe it's more than possible that the OP has dinos with or without some cyano. Dinos are harder to deal with than Cyano, and I would address this first.

I am also sure you've seen charts or advise calling very low or even zero nitrate and phosphate. I promise that this is old information, and not what the majority of reefers aim for these days.

Further, I've linked to an article from Randy Holmes-Farley above. If you're unaware, RHF is a PhD Chemist and a well know reef tank guru for probably 30 years now, and across multiple forums and publications. In the article I linked, Randy shares his advice for target nutrients, and the reasons why, and many of us here at R2R are now following his advice, which is to let nitrate float between 5 ppm and 50 ppm, and phosphate from 0.06 ppm to 0.30 ppm. This is for coral health primarily and to minimize the chance of dinoflagellate algae.

I hope this helps!

I will post a pic when I'm home later but to clarify the nitrate is between 5-10 on my salifert test kit and phosphate is between 0.1 and 0.15. not 0.01. therefore is still considered "high" by most on here.
The stuff is deep red and comes off easily with a Syphon.

 

[twentyleagues]

I will post a pic when I'm home later but to clarify the nitrate is between 5-10 on my salifert test kit and phosphate is between 0.1 and 0.15. not 0.01. therefore is still considered "high" by most on here.
The stuff is deep red and comes off easily with a Syphon.

Yeah that looks like cyano. Typically cyano starts at nutrient sinks, places where there is lower flow and a build up of detritus whether visible or not. increase flow to that area or siphon it out. Your numbers are fine, most on here would not consider them high some would. Its been the "meta" to keep your "nutrients" as low as possible for a long time now (that is slowly changing). So that is what people parrot back when asked about levels. Honestly anywhere in the 5-50n and .06-.3p is perfectly acceptable. If you start having algae issues your problem isnt nutrients its lack of something to keep it in check or something to outcompete it.

 

[CHSUB]

been the "meta" to keep your "nutrients" as low as possible for a long time now (that is slowly changing). So that is what people parrot back when asked about levels. Honestly anywhere in the 5-50n and .06-.3p is perfectly acceptable

No, not at all….the only thing that is really changing is many people are realizing that higher nutrients are not as detrimental as once through. However, Julian Sprung writes about higher nutrient levels not being detrimental and in some cases desirable as far back as 1994, so that is far from new and unknown. Imo the parroting is Randy’s levels quoted by many that don’t have experience with levels below 5n and .06p and believing those levels are minimums for success. I also wouldn’t describe 50n and .3p as “perfectly acceptable” by the vast majority of successful and experienced reefers and more like “potentially acceptable but far from desirable”.

 

[Paul B]

right now i have plenty of cyano. some years i have none and sometimes it tries to cover my corals and living room furniture.

it's like nuisance algae, everyone has an opinion but the cyano and algae don't care what your opinion is or how many degrees you have.

if it wants to grow for whatever reason, it will grow.
i have been SCUBA diving over 50 years and see it on healthy reefs.



its bacteria and bacteria is hard to argue with because they have a tiny brain but it grows in brand new tanks with all new water and 55 year old tanks like mine with water from Noah's flood. so change water, don't change water, add nutrients or chicken soup and we can keep the argument gong forever because all we have are opinions which don't mean much.

cyano. i like it and so does he





algae and diatoms. they come and go as they like.



go out to dinner and let nature take care of it. it all comes and goes in cycles as long as you keep a tank long enough

 

[56longroof]

I had cyano pop up briefly in my tank. I blasted it off with a turkey baster when doing water changes. Seemed to work. Im assuming the places it settled were pockets of detritus on the rock where flow is minimal. Every time I blew it off there was quite a bit of sediment come up also.

 

[twentyleagues]

No, not at all….the only thing that is really changing is many people are realizing that higher nutrients are not as detrimental as once through. However, Julian Sprung writes about higher nutrient levels not being detrimental and in some cases desirable as far back as 1994, so that is far from new and unknown. Imo the parroting is Randy’s levels quoted by many that don’t have experience with levels below 5n and .06p and believing those levels are minimums for success. I also wouldn’t describe 50n and .3p as “perfectly acceptable” by the vast majority of successful and experienced reefers and more like “potentially acceptable but far from desirable”.

I figured you would reply to my comment. I do not completely disagree with your view point either. What was it '05 or '06 when the ULNS fad started and continued until recently, I dont think that did anything good for the hobby. When I tried it I saw sad corals and unhealthy conditions. Allowing "nutrients" to increase to a higher level things looked better at least to me. I got out of the hobby in '10 and came back in '21 or '22 reading post after post of dinos, cyano, extended ugly phases and still some persist in low to undetectable nutrient are the norm. I am running my reef and I have 3 people at work I set up reef tanks for or at least helped with, I dont maintain their reefs just mine but I do help them. Only 1 of them have or have had any major algae issues all started with dry rock, the one is from his choice of inhabitant a mantis shrimp. He has quite a bit of cyano and hair algae but thats because of tanks size and the fact any cuc is eaten and I dont think he is honestly following any husbandry I talked about with them all. All these tanks have some things in common, detectable nutrients, happy corals, happy fish, and except the one no major algae issues. Sure like @Paul B says cyano, dinos, can be cyclical and most of the time its just a small blip on the radar not a tank ending catastrophe like some people believe.

 

[Fish Fan]

I will post a pic when I'm home later but to clarify the nitrate is between 5-10 on my salifert test kit and phosphate is between 0.1 and 0.15. not 0.01. therefore is still considered "high" by most on here.
The stuff is deep red and comes off easily with a Syphon.

No, that's not as high as I thought, I did think you're phosphate was 0.01 ppm, which is quite low.

As mentioned, it does look like Cyano; manual removal with your siphon, increase flow, and try to minimize any excess organics. The video I posted above may be of some help too.

 

[welshgazz]

Thank you all for the advice, I wasn't planning on starting an argument.
Anyway here are some pics under full white I just took, I do have algae on top of the flat rock and all on the back wall. Can clearly see the bright red which I believe is cyanobacteria. I appreciate all of your comments and experience.

 

[Fish Fan]

Thank you all for the advice, I wasn't planning on starting an argument.

You did nothing wrong

 

[twentyleagues]

Thank you all for the advice, I wasn't planning on starting an argument.
Anyway here are some pics under full white I just took, I do have algae on top of the flat rock and all on the back wall. Can clearly see the bright red which I believe is cyanobacteria. I appreciate all of your comments and experience.

Looks like possibly some dinos on that top rock as well. Just siphon them off and increase flow to the area.

 

[Hans-Werner]

Thank you all for the advice, I wasn't planning on starting an argument.
Anyway here are some pics under full white I just took, I do have algae on top of the flat rock and all on the back wall. Can clearly see the bright red which I believe is cyanobacteria. I appreciate all of your comments and experience.

I see golden brown dinos with bubbles too, maybe even more than cyanos.

 

[welshgazz]

I see golden brown dinos with bubbles too, maybe even more than cyanos.

Dino's with bubbles? I do have quite a lot of bubbles on that rock. What are they and how to get rid please?

 

[Hans-Werner]

Dino's with bubbles? I do have quite a lot of bubbles on that rock. What are they and how to get rid please?

Also with higher phosphate concentrations.

The dinos are the golden brown slime with bubbles on strings. They seem to be even under the cyanos. Such combinations are not uncommon and the root problem may be the same for both.

 

[Fish Fan]

Also with higher phosphate concentrations.

The dinos are the golden brown slime with bubbles on strings. They seem to be even under the cyanos. Such combinations are not uncommon and the root problem may be the same for both.

Do you generally agree that bottoming out phosphate can lead to dinos? This seems to be what's happening in my tank currently. Thank you for your help!

 

[Hans-Werner]

Do you generally agree that bottoming out phosphate can lead to dinos? This seems to be what's happening in my tank currently. Thank you for your help!

I had dino outbreaks in the past but can't confirm or disprove this from personal experience. I would go with the stream and confirm it.

Scientific literature says dinos get more toxic and more competitive under phosphate limitation (low phosphate concentrations). We don't want either, so it is better to avoid low phosphate concentrations.

In contrast corals need some phosphate to be competitive and grow well.

Phosphate concentrations around 0.1 ppm help corals and makes it harder for cyanos and dinos.

 

[Fish Fan]

I had dino outbreaks in the past but can't confirm or disprove this from personal experience. In would go with the stream and confirm it.

Scientific literature says dinos get more toxic and more competitive under phosphate limitation (low phosphate concentrations). We don't want either, so it is better to avoid low phosphate concentrations.

In contrast corals need some phosphate to be competitive and grow well.

Phosphate concentrations around 0.1 ppm help corals and make it harder for cyanos and dinos.

Thank you for your reply!

 

[Reginald Reefer III]

Aminos can also fuel cyano and dinos I would discontinue use while dealing with this issue.

Yep I know. I heavily dose them to help with acro growth and deal with the cyano as it pops up.

 

[twentyleagues]

Yep I know. I heavily dose them to help with acro growth and deal with the cyano as it pops up.

Yeah I replied before I saw you were not the op. I guessed you have this figured out.

 

[CHSUB]

Scientific literature says dinos get more toxic and more competitive under phosphate limitation (low phosphate concentrations)

Maybe more competitive because of prey but that is arguable and most likely hobby observation, however all the literature I’m aware of suggests just the opposite. Po4 limits growth and starves dinoflagellate. In nitrogen limiting environments dinoflagellate have the ability to consume n2 capturing Cyanobacteria.