Cycling an Aquarium

[chvvkumar]

Set up my first FOWLR tank and I am looking for help in interpreting my results.

I have dry rock and live sand and no fish or corals or inverts in my tank.

I added Bio spira and ammonia (1 drop per gallon) four days ago. I did a test today (was waiting for my test kit to arrive and it did today):

Am I correct that the parameters are as follows:
pH: 8.0
Ammonia: 0.5ppm
Nitrite: 0.5ppm
Nitrate: 20ppm
Does this mean the cycle has stalled?

 

[cvrle1]

Paging @brandon429 who is a big fan of "stalled cycles"

 

[chvvkumar]

Paging @brandon429 who is a big fan of "stalled cycles"

I was JUST reading his reply here:

Nitrites not going away

I would put Nitrite remover in the filter it's a little mesh bag of something good for a month. Add fish and when you ammonia is 0 cycle is done. Remove bag after one month

www.reef2reef.com

 

[brandon429]

opinions vary on procedure still just a little, and thats good as it evolves procedures and efficiency im all for it. my take is this: i have on file a biospira skip cycle thread where fish were added with dry rock on day 1.

so this tank is that tank, no fish, + 3 more days, plus wet sand inoculant. I dont factor api test kits, I factor work thread patterns to make most calls. if a fish is added here it will live to the degree Ive never seen a report of biospira confirmed as a dead bottle. there is an exacting way to test it using the current tools above, and if reconfirmation is wanted then add ammonia until that test results gets slightly darker than above, not much, slightly.

wait 24 hours then retest, if back down, confirmed. my cycle calls are only based on ammonia control, effectively eliminating 2x mistesting possibilities from the assessment. we uphold that single param assessment as long as things keep not dying, and on the seneye kits keep showing .00X ppm which is the accepted safe zone free ammonia conversion rate per todays best tests. I think a seneye would show thousandths ppm above and a fish added would not die.

 

[chvvkumar]

opinions vary on procedure still just a little, and thats good as it evolves procedures and efficiency im all for it. my take is this: i have on file a biospira skip cycle thread where fish were added with dry rock on day 1.

so this tank is that tank, no fish, + 3 more days, plus wet sand inoculant. I dont factor api test kits, I factor work thread patterns to make most calls. if a fish is added here it will live to the degree Ive never seen a report of biospira confirmed as a dead bottle. there is an exacting way to test it using the current tools above, and if reconfirmation is wanted then add ammonia until that test results gets slightly darker than above, not much, slightly.

wait 24 hours then retest, if back down, confirmed. my cycle calls are only based on ammonia control, effectively eliminating 2x mistesting possibilities from the assessment. we uphold that single param assessment as long as things keep not dying, and on the seneye kits keep showing .00X ppm which is the accepted safe zone free ammonia conversion rate per todays best tests. I think a seneye would show thousandths ppm above and a fish added would not die.

Thank you Brandon, I will re-test and see what the trend looks like. Appreciate your time

 

[Brew12]

Set up my first FOWLR tank and I am looking for help in interpreting my results.

I have dry rock and live sand and no fish or corals or inverts in my tank.

I added Bio spira and ammonia (1 drop per gallon) four days ago. I did a test today (was waiting for my test kit to arrive and it did today):

Am I correct that the parameters are as follows:
pH: 8.0
Ammonia: 0.5ppm
Nitrite: 0.5ppm
Nitrate: 20ppm
Does this mean the cycle has stalled?

Most people wouldn't considered a cycle stalled until it had gone a week or more without changing. Since you don't know where you started it is hard to say where you should be.

In most tanks it would take some serious overfeeding to get ammonia to 1ppm in a day. There are many ways to get a tank ready for fish. You have started going down the path of using a bottled bacteria while verifying it works by adding ammonia. Since you went down this path, you added an unnatural amount of ammonia to your system. I would recommend being patient and waiting for that nitrite to drop. If you want to dose ammonia back up again after that happens is up to you.

 

[chvvkumar]

Most people wouldn't considered a cycle stalled until it had gone a week or more without changing. Since you don't know where you started it is hard to say where you should be.

In most tanks it would take some serious overfeeding to get ammonia to 1ppm in a day. There are many ways to get a tank ready for fish. You have started going down the path of using a bottled bacteria while verifying it works by adding ammonia. Since you went down this path, you added an unnatural amount of ammonia to your system. I would recommend being patient and waiting for that nitrite to drop. If you want to dose ammonia back up again after that happens is up to you.

Thank you for your time, I will wait and see if ammonia drops and other parameters follow this graph before doing anything:

 

[canadianeh]

Regarding CUC, how do I know when my tank needs them?

Also I appreciate it if you can give me your opinion on my cycling process right now.

Cycling using Dr Tim’s products and I am also using Caribsea purple liferock

Day 1
Dose 60 drops of ammonia

Day 2
Ammonia <0.15
Nitrate 25

Day 3
Ammonia <0.15
Nitrate 2.5
Then after added more ammonia drops

Day 4
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 2.5

Day 5
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 2

Day 6
Added more ammonia
15 minutes later ammonia test shows 0.5

Day 7
Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 0.5
Nitrate 5

According to dr Tim’s, on day 9 I can add fish.

@Brew12 so on day 8 didn’t test and didn’t dose ammonia.

Day 9 today I did a test and didn’t does ammonia and the result is weird particularly the ammonia. It stays the same from day 7

Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 0.25
Nitrate 25 ppm

Is this normal?

 

[Brew12]

@Brew12 so on day 8 didn’t test and didn’t dose ammonia.

Day 9 today I did a test and didn’t does ammonia and the result is weird particularly the ammonia. It stays the same from day 7

Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 0.25
Nitrate 25 ppm

Is this normal?

Unfortunately, ammonia tests often provide false readings. I would give it another day or two. That may be how your system/test kit reads zero.

 

[canadianeh]

Unfortunately, ammonia tests often provide false readings. I would give it another day or two. That may be how your system/test kit reads zero.

Day 10 was yesterday, and I did another test. Ammonia and Nitrate same result as day 9 and Nitrite went up to 0.5
I dosed ammonia again yesterday after the test. Should I just still leave it and continue to dose ammonia every 3 days?

can I add Brightwell Microbacter XLM now to add more beneficial bacteria? I used Dr Tims from day 1.

Day 1
Dose 60 drops of ammonia

Day 2
Ammonia <0.15
Nitrate 25

Day 3
Ammonia <0.15
Nitrate 2.5
Then after added more ammonia drops

Day 4
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 2.5

Day 5
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 2

Day 6
Added more ammonia
15 minutes later ammonia test shows 0.5

Day 7
Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 0.5
Nitrate 5

Day 8
Didn’t test. No ammonia added

Day 9
Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 0.25
Nitrate 25

Day 10
Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 0.5
Nitrate 25
Added 65 drops of ammonia after the test

 

[Darsh]

I'm started my 100 gallon reef tank 5 weeks ago on 90lbs dry rock and dry sand, adding 70ml 10% ammonia solution and 16oz. Microbe-lift SPECIAL BLEND bacteria to start cycling.
My biological filtration is 1kg MAXSPECT BioSpheres in sump. After 5 weeks NH3 = 0 / NO2=0 / and my NO3 is maxout on Salifert test scale >100ppm.
Today i addet some Chaetomorpha to sump and start lightning it for 12h.
How can i reduce NO3?
Should I wait?
Wat is the NO3 safe level to clown fish?
50gallon water cheange is the last thing I would like to do. (time to produce water and buying new salt)

If your Chaeto is growing, it should lower your Nitrates.
50% water change will bring your Nitrates down to 50ppm, which will be okay for clownfish but I prefer <25ppm and keep mine at <10ppm.
To lower them another way, check out this thread:

Poor Man's Nutrients Control - Donovan's Nitrate Destroyer

Hello fellow reefers!. I have been in the hobby for more than 3 years, the first 2 years was tough. Cyno, diatom, nuisance algae, high NO3 (120ppm at one time) and ich/velvet. I have tried several nutrient control method (poor man, so most of it were DIY project). GFO, water fall scrubber...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[canadianeh]

@Brew12 Day 14 and The nitrite and nitrate numbers finally moved. Ammonia still shows the same for some reason. I just bought a fresh dr Tim’s ammonia. I want to try to dose using the fresh one. Should I do 20% WC first to export the nitrate and then dose ammonia again? Or can I dose first then WC later?

Day 1
Dose 60 drops of ammonia

Day 2
Ammonia <0.15
Nitrate 25

Day 3
Ammonia <0.15
Nitrate 2.5
Then after added more ammonia drops

Day 4
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 2.5

Day 5
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 2

Day 6
Added more ammonia
15 minutes later ammonia test shows 0.5

Day 7
Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 0.5
Nitrate 5

Day 8
Didn’t test. No ammonia added

Day 9
Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 0.25
Nitrate 25

Day 10
Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 0.5
Nitrate 25
Added 65 drops of ammonia after the test

Day 11
Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 0.5
Nitrate 50

Day 12
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 1
Nitrate 50

Day 13
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 1
Nitrate 50

Day 14
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 2
Nitrates 100

 

[Brew12]

@Brew12 Day 14 and The nitrite and nitrate numbers finally moved. Ammonia still shows the same for some reason. I just bought a fresh dr Tim’s ammonia. I want to try to dose using the fresh one. Should I do 20% WC first to export the nitrate and then dose ammonia again? Or can I dose first then WC later?

Day 1
Dose 60 drops of ammonia

Day 2
Ammonia <0.15
Nitrate 25

Day 3
Ammonia <0.15
Nitrate 2.5
Then after added more ammonia drops

Day 4
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 2.5

Day 5
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 2

Day 6
Added more ammonia
15 minutes later ammonia test shows 0.5

Day 7
Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 0.5
Nitrate 5

Day 8
Didn’t test. No ammonia added

Day 9
Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 0.25
Nitrate 25

Day 10
Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 0.5
Nitrate 25
Added 65 drops of ammonia after the test

Day 11
Ammonia 0.5
Nitrite 0.5
Nitrate 50

Day 12
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 1
Nitrate 50

Day 13
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 1
Nitrate 50

Day 14
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 2
Nitrates 100

You can't trust your nitrate number until your nitrite reads 0. I would dose first and then do a water change, if needed, when nitrite is 0ppm.

 

[canadianeh]

You can't trust your nitrate number until your nitrite reads 0. I would dose first and then do a water change, if needed, when nitrite is 0ppm.

Oh I must have misunderstood then. I thought there is no beneficial bacteria that can consume Nitrate and only algae such as chaeto or WC to deal with Nitrate?

 

[Brew12]

Oh I must have misunderstood then. I thought there is no beneficial bacteria that can consume Nitrate and only algae such as chaeto or WC to deal with Nitrate?

You are partially correct. There is an anaerobic bacteria that can break nitrate down to nitrogen gas, but it only happens deep in live rock or in special plates. But.. nitrate tests work by breaking nitrate down to nitrite and then measuring it. So, your nitrate test is actually a combination of nitrate and nitrite, and a small amount of nitrite will cause a much larger nitrate reading.

 

[canadianeh]

You are partially correct. There is an anaerobic bacteria that can break nitrate down to nitrogen gas, but it only happens deep in live rock or in special plates. But.. nitrate tests work by breaking nitrate down to nitrite and then measuring it. So, your nitrate test is actually a combination of nitrate and nitrite, and a small amount of nitrite will cause a much larger nitrate reading.

I got my ammonia up to 1.5 ppm. I couldn’t get it this high with my old ammonia. So it has to be my old ammonia. It went bad.

I see. My sandbed is 1” deep only. But in addition to the Caribsea liferock I also have bunch of marinepure bio balls. Is there a way to test if I have this anaerobic bacteria? Or I just have to see if my nitrate can go down without water change?

 

[Brew12]

I got my ammonia up to 1.5 ppm. I couldn’t get it this high with my old ammonia. So it has to be my old ammonia. It went bad.

I see. My sandbed is 1” deep only. But in addition to the Caribsea liferock I also have bunch of marinepure bio balls. Is there a way to test if I have this anaerobic bacteria? Or I just have to see if my nitrate can go down without water change?

I'm not aware of a way to test it, but it's normally a very minor way to reduce nitrates anyway. I don't know of anyone that uses it as a major way to export nitrate.

 

[Lewism11]

I never measured any nitrite during my cycle, is this a problem?

No, odds are this is not a problem. It is possible that you had a larger initial population of Nitrobacter bacteria (nitrite eaters) compared to Nitrosomonas bacteria (ammonia eaters). In this case the nitrite was processed to nitrate almost as soon as it was produced.

Another possibility is that you have a large population of Nitrospira bacteria. These bacteria convert ammonia into nitrite and then to nitrate within the same cell structure so the nitrite is never released into the water to be measured.

Hey, been out of the reef tank hobby for a few years and now I'm trying to get back into it. Would the above be true if I am ready .50 ppm for Ammonia and 10 ppm for Nitrates but 0 for Nitrites, it's been running for about a week. I'm seeing a slow increase in Nitrates (started at 0 ppm) and over the last week it has climbed to 10 ppm. Ammonia has been holding steady at .50 ppm since day 3. I started this tank with 75% dry rock and 25% live rock from my LFS sump.

 

[Brew12]

I never measured any nitrite during my cycle, is this a problem?

No, odds are this is not a problem. It is possible that you had a larger initial population of Nitrobacter bacteria (nitrite eaters) compared to Nitrosomonas bacteria (ammonia eaters). In this case the nitrite was processed to nitrate almost as soon as it was produced.

Another possibility is that you have a large population of Nitrospira bacteria. These bacteria convert ammonia into nitrite and then to nitrate within the same cell structure so the nitrite is never released into the water to be measured.

Hey, been out of the reef tank hobby for a few years and now I'm trying to get back into it. Would the above be true if I am ready .50 ppm for Ammonia and 10 ppm for Nitrates but 0 for Nitrites, it's been running for about a week. I'm seeing a slow increase in Nitrates (started at 0 ppm) and over the last week it has climbed to 10 ppm. Ammonia has been holding steady at .50 ppm since day 3. I started this tank with 75% dry rock and 25% live rock from my LFS sump.

What you are seeing is pretty normal for using live rock. I'm not sure what you are using for an ammonia source but if it is something in constant decay (like fish food or a shrimp) what you are seeing is exactly what you want.

 

[Lewism11]

I haven't added anything for an ammonia source, in my previous tanks I simply added live rock and let the cycle do its thing.