Cycling issues..

[ZachariahBeanzz]

Hey there!
I’ve been cycling my Innovative Marine 20-gallon for a little over 3 weeks now. I started with 2ppm of ammonia on day one, along with a full bottle of Dr. Tim’s One and Only. Since then, I’ve been dosing MicroBacter7 daily. I’m using dry rock and dry sand, and haven’t added any more ammonia since that initial dose, but it looks like the level might have gone up a bit, possibly over 2ppm. I’m also seeing around 0.2ppm nitrite, but still no detectable nitrate.

I know cycling takes time and patience, especially with dry rock, but just wanted to check in and see if this sounds about right or if there’s anything I might be missing. Any insight would be appreciated!

 

[Fish Fan]

That does seem like it's taking a while for the nitrate to start to show here. What are you using for test kits?

 

[ZachariahBeanzz]

That does seem like it's takin g a while for the nitrate to start to show here. What are you using for test kits?

I’m using Red seas multi test kit. I did some research before buying it, and it looked pretty good. Also it’s the one my LFS recommended to me, as he uses it (he’s won some reefing competitions so I trusted him on it).

 

[Fish Fan]

The Red Sea test kits are generally considered very good, and while a fish-less cycle can take a few weeks, I'm not sure why you're not seeing anything for nitrate just yet.

#reefsquad can anyone take a second look here for the OP please?

 

[Rocks reef]

Sounds like you are on the right track my friend.
One key element in reefing is....patience.
I know its been 3 weeks, but as you mentioned, you started with dry rock and dry sand. It will take a bit for the bacterial load to be established.
Do you know anyone who could give you a piece of live rock from a well established system? You don't need a huge rock, golf ball size or less would be perfect.
Also, are you ghost feeding at all?

 

[keithw283]

Microbacter can be annoying to cycle with. That’s what I tried cycling my 240 with but was running into the same issues you are. I switched to dr tim’s and within 24 hours my ammonia was at zero.

 

[Euphyllia97]

3 weeks with dry rock and dry sand is not that uncommon. Takes time for the bacteria to grow to a good number. If it can be a small relief, in saltwater you don’t need to wait for nitrites to become 0 before adding your first fish. So you are on the right track!

 

[Rocks reef]

Agree on the nitrites, in saltwater the chloride makes nitrite inert to fish.

 

[tzabor10]

Live Rock for the win. Nothing is comparable as far as speed and reliability

 

[ZachariahBeanzz]

Live Rock for the win. Nothing is comparable as far as speed and reliability

Yeah, I would definitely love to use live rock in the future! But I’m on a tight budget, and that rock definitely did not make the cut.

 

[ZachariahBeanzz]

3 weeks with dry rock and dry sand is not that uncommon. Takes time for the bacteria to grow to a good number. If it can be a small relief, in saltwater you don’t need to wait for nitrites to become 0 before adding your first fish. So you are on the right track!

Agree on the nitrites, in saltwater the chloride makes nitrite inert to fish.

Yeah, I’m not too worried about nitrite, I just wanted to say the level to show that some ammonia is processing, albeit slowly.

 

[ZachariahBeanzz]

Sounds like you are on the right track my friend.
One key element in reefing is....patience.
I know its been 3 weeks, but as you mentioned, you started with dry rock and dry sand. It will take a bit for the bacterial load to be established.
Do you know anyone who could give you a piece of live rock from a well established system? You don't need a huge rock, golf ball size or less would be perfect.
Also, are you ghost feeding at all?

Yeah, patience is key (at least from everything I read), but since I’m new to reefing, I know it’ll take a bit to get use to waiting. And unfortunately I live in a pretty small town and no one seems to really keep any reef tanks. I’m also not ghost feeding at all, just because my ammonia hasn’t gone down at all, should I start doing that?

 

[ZachariahBeanzz]

Microbacter can be annoying to cycle with. That’s what I tried cycling my 240 with but was running into the same issues you are. I switched to dr tim’s and within 24 hours my ammonia was at zero.

Yeah, from what I’ve read microbactor 7 takes awhile to establish, but I did add some Dr Tim’s at the start!

 

[twentyleagues]

Add some (a little not a lot) of crushed pellets or flake food if you have or can get reefroids add some of that. Bacterias need a carbon source also. The added phosphates will also help during the nitrite phase as these bacteria need a carbon source and phosphates. There were tests run on many bottled bacteria from a couple people here I am sure a search will bring up their findings. Heres one I didnt even know existed https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bacteria-in-a-bottle-myth-or-fact.403226/
In most of them Fritz seems the fastest.
I hadn't needed to cycle a tank in years and my first time in saltwater years ago was set up with established live rock(not from the ocean but still quite costly). Setting up my current reef I did the same as you dry rock and sand. I used microbacter xlm and ammonia to start it took about a month to complete but I waited for a "complete cycle". I did this for a few reasons and I think it helped me to not have an "ugly" stage. I did find that while xlm took care of ammonia with in a week the nitrites took the longest and I did a bunch of reading and asking I found the phosphate thing out as I went. I wish I knew then that I could have just asked @Lasse he confirmed my thoughts many months later.

 

[ZachariahBeanzz]

Add some (a little not a lot) of crushed pellets or flake food if you have or can get reefroids add some of that. Bacterias need a carbon source also. The added phosphates will also help during the nitrite phase as these bacteria need a carbon source and phosphates. There were tests run on many bottled bacteria from a couple people here I am sure a search will bring up their findings. Heres one I didnt even know existed https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bacteria-in-a-bottle-myth-or-fact.403226/
In most of them Fritz seems the fastest.
I hadn't needed to cycle a tank in years and my first time in saltwater years ago was set up with established live rock(not from the ocean but still quite costly). Setting up my current reef I did the same as you dry rock and sand. I used microbacter xlm and ammonia to start it took about a month to complete but I waited for a "complete cycle". I did this for a few reasons and I think it helped me to not have an "ugly" stage. I did find that while xlm took care of ammonia with in a week the nitrites took the longest and I did a bunch of reading and asking I found the phosphate thing out as I went. I wish I knew then that I could have just asked @Lasse he confirmed my thoughts many months later.

Wow! Thats really cool, thanks for all the info! So should I continue to keep dosing the microbacotor 7, and how often should I add a little bit of crushed fish food? Also what’s a “complete cycle” is that just showing zero ammonia and nitrite? Sorry if all this is answered in the link you sent, I’m going to read it now.

 

[Fish Fan]

In my experience, and having seen A LOT of posts here on R2R about cycling with Dr. Tim's, usually the whole process takes about three weeks, give or take, which is why I'm a bit puzzled here, but indeed it can take longer, and patience is often rewarded in this hobby

In regard to nitrite, it is indeed non-toxic in marine aquaria (unlike in freshwater) due to the interaction of nitrite and chloride ions in seawater. Here's a post from RHF and link that goes into more detail on that, if anyone is interested:

Nitrite Toxicity

Hey guys I have an aquarium system that has about 45gallons of water cycling so I Let it cycle for about week and I added seeded marine pure ceramic balls and the bacteria in a bottle. I had no choice but to add my 2 clownfish from my quarantine into the tank.. because I needed to put a sick...

www.reef2reef.com

And, RHF has said that nitrite will cause a false positive for nitrate on most hobby level test kits, so if nitrite is present, you can't really be sure what your nitrates are. For this same reason, I would expect to see *something* for nitrate at this point, even if it's not accurate. The OP is showing some nitrite.

Add some (a little not a lot) of crushed pellets or flake food if you have or can get reefroids add some of that. Bacterias need a carbon source also. The added phosphates will also help during the nitrite phase as these bacteria need a carbon source and phosphates. There were tests run on many bottled bacteria from a couple people here I am sure a search will bring up their findings. Heres one I didnt even know existed https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bacteria-in-a-bottle-myth-or-fact.403226/
In most of them Fritz seems the fastest.
I hadn't needed to cycle a tank in years and my first time in saltwater years ago was set up with established live rock(not from the ocean but still quite costly). Setting up my current reef I did the same as you dry rock and sand. I used microbacter xlm and ammonia to start it took about a month to complete but I waited for a "complete cycle". I did this for a few reasons and I think it helped me to not have an "ugly" stage. I did find that while xlm took care of ammonia with in a week the nitrites took the longest and I did a bunch of reading and asking I found the phosphate thing out as I went. I wish I knew then that I could have just asked @Lasse he confirmed my thoughts many months later.

This is spot on, the bacteria do need phosphate, and there's now a Tropic Marin product that addresses this for cycling new tanks, though I have not personally used it yet:

75g Phos-Start

Particulate Nutrient Supply for New Reef Aquariums Use for the First 2-3 Months of Cycling Phase Stimulates the Microbiome Includes Trace Elements Like Iodide, Fluoride & Bromide Tropic Marin Phos-Start contains natural marine biopolymers as bacterial food to stimulate the microbiome in the...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[Fish Fan]

Wow! Thats really cool, thanks for all the info! So should I continue to keep dosing the microbacotor 7, and how often should I add a little bit of crushed fish food? Also what’s a “complete cycle” is that just showing zero ammonia and nitrite? Sorry if all this is answered in the link you sent, I’m going to read it now.

I don't mean to speak for @twentyleagues who's a very well respected R2R member, but you'd be looking for your ammonia to go to nearly zero, and nitrates to start to accumulate. There is no need to wait for nitrite to go to zero. Please see my above link about how nitrite is non-toxic, and not a concern here

The "test" so to speak would be to add more of the ammonium chloride to get the concentration back to ~2.0 ppm, and then test for ammonia again in 24 hours. When your tank can process 2.0 ppm ammonia in 24 hours, you're cycled

I hope that helps, and certainly @twentyleagues may have greater insight here.

 

[ZachariahBeanzz]

I don't mean to speak for @twentyleagues who's a very well respected R2R member, but you'd be looking for your ammonia to go to nearly zero, and nitrates to start to accumulate. There is no need to wait for nitrite to go to zero. Please see my above link about how nitrite is non-toxic, and not a concern here

The "test" so to speak would be to add more of the ammonium chloride to get the concentration back to ~2.0 ppm, and then test for ammonia again in 24 hours. When your tank can process 2.0 ppm ammonia in 24 hours, you're cycled

I hope that helps, and certainly @twentyleagues may have greater insight here.

In my experience, and having seen A LOT of posts here on R2R about cycling with Dr. Tim's, usually the whole process takes about three weeks, give or take, which is why I'm a bit puzzled here, but indeed it can take longer, and patience is often rewarded in this hobby

In regard to nitrite, it is indeed non-toxic in marine aquaria (unlike in freshwater) due to the interaction of nitrite and chloride ions in seawater. Here's a post from RHF and link that goes into more detail on that, if anyone is interested:

Nitrite Toxicity

Hey guys I have an aquarium system that has about 45gallons of water cycling so I Let it cycle for about week and I added seeded marine pure ceramic balls and the bacteria in a bottle. I had no choice but to add my 2 clownfish from my quarantine into the tank.. because I needed to put a sick...

www.reef2reef.com

And, RHF has said that nitrite will cause a false positive for nitrate on most hobby level test kits, so if nitrite is present, you can't really be sure what your nitrates are. For this same reason, I would expect to see *something* for nitrate at this point, even if it's not accurate. The OP is showing some nitrite.


This is spot on, the bacteria do need phosphate, and there's now a Tropic Marin product that addresses this for cycling new tanks, though I have not personally used it yet:

75g Phos-Start

Particulate Nutrient Supply for New Reef Aquariums Use for the First 2-3 Months of Cycling Phase Stimulates the Microbiome Includes Trace Elements Like Iodide, Fluoride & Bromide Tropic Marin Phos-Start contains natural marine biopolymers as bacterial food to stimulate the microbiome in the...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Yes, sorry I do know that nitrite is not toxic, and I’m not waiting for that to go to zero before adding fish if my ammonia eventually reaches zero, I was just curious as to what a complete cycle was. But thanks for all the links! I’ll definitely look into the phos-start

 

[twentyleagues]

Wow! Thats really cool, thanks for all the info! So should I continue to keep dosing the microbacotor 7, and how often should I add a little bit of crushed fish food? Also what’s a “complete cycle” is that just showing zero ammonia and nitrite? Sorry if all this is answered in the link you sent, I’m going to read it now.

Microbacter7 has been a go to for me in the past for freshwater fish in starts. It works flawlessly never used it to cycle a sw tank but I know it does work. A complete cycle would be all ammonia and nitrite gone. Like @Fish Fan said nitrite is not a concern for life in a reef tank unless very very high. I have a feeling while I have no basis that its true but I think rushing in or not fully cycling your tank can at least help cause issues like the "ugly stage". Obviously there are many things that actually contribute to that. I also did add a second and third round of ammonia once the cycle had "completed" (cycle never actually completes its on going) just to see how fast it was used.

I don't mean to speak for @twentyleagues who's a very well respected R2R member, but you'd be looking for your ammonia to go to nearly zero, and nitrates to start to accumulate. There is no need to wait for nitrite to go to zero. Please see my above link about how nitrite is non-toxic, and not a concern here

The "test" so to speak would be to add more of the ammonium chloride to get the concentration back to ~2.0 ppm, and then test for ammonia again in 24 hours. When your tank can process 2.0 ppm ammonia in 24 hours, you're cycled

I hope that helps, and certainly @twentyleagues may have greater insight here.

I have been called lots of things in the past but I dont think well respected has ever been one of them. lol There was that one time with AI searches for our user names but what does AI know. Thank you! I am just a guy with some fish and coral tanks. I am terrible at chemistry and only so so with math, typing and proper punctuation are also not my strong suit lol.

 

[Fish Fan]

Microbacter7 has been a go to for me in the past for freshwater fish in starts. It works flawlessly never used it to cycle a sw tank but I know it does work. A complete cycle would be all ammonia and nitrite gone. Like @Fish Fan said nitrite is not a concern for life in a reef tank unless very very high. I have a feeling while I have no basis that its true but I think rushing in or not fully cycling your tank can at least help cause issues like the "ugly stage". Obviously there are many things that actually contribute to that. I also did add a second and third round of ammonia once the cycle had "completed" (cycle never actually completes its on going) just to see how fast it was used.


I have been called lots of things in the past but I dont think well respected has ever been one of them. lol There was that one time with AI searches for our user names but what does AI know. Thank you! I am just a guy with some fish and coral tanks. I am terrible at chemistry and only so so with math, typing and proper punctuation are also not my strong suit lol.

I’ll add humble to the list too

Thanks for your help here!