Cycling with live rock

[CatsandClowns]

Heyo! I'm starting up a new tank(my second tank), so I am still learning. I started my first 15-gallon tank a few months ago with all dry rock, only one or two pieces of live rock rubble(which was low quality), and a seeded filter sponge. However, for this second time, I'm setting up a 38-gallon, while using a large amount of dry rock that's currently soaking in a bucket with a wavemaker and heater, I purchased 2lbs of Gulf Live Rock rubble. I know it's likely not enough, but that stuff is soooo expensive! I plan to use Caribsea live sand as well as a cupful of sand from my 15-gallon as well as a decent amount of water from the 15, just for added water chemistry stability. I am going to cycle this fishless for a few weeks, but I am not sure how using live rock rubble(even if only 2lbs) will change how this process works. Should I be performing weekly water changes during this time to curb harmful levels of ammonia/nitrite, to limit the amount of die-off from microfauna within the rock? Or rather, should I cycle with the dry rock, sand, and filter sponge before adding the live rock rubble to the tank a bit later? Is there anything else I should be considering? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time!

 

[Ruben's Reef]

Hi, if you put the live rock with the other dry rock and keeping moving and at the right temperature, I would do a water test to find out what are the parameters including salinity, ammonia, nitrates. Also dosing Microbacter7 or other bacteria in a bottle can help a lot to cycle faster.

 

[CatsandClowns]

Hi, if you put the live rock with the other dry rock and keeping moving and at the right temperature, I would do a water test to find out what are the parameters including salinity, ammonia, nitrates. Also dosing Microbacter7 or other bacteria in a bottle can help a lot to cycle faster.

Hey Ruben, thanks for the advice. So I should have the tank set up for a day or two without the live rock? This would be for matching the right salinity and temperature before adding the live rock.

 

[BryanM]

Heyo! I'm starting up a new tank(my second tank), so I am still learning. I started my first 15-gallon tank a few months ago with all dry rock, only one or two pieces of live rock rubble(which was low quality), and a seeded filter sponge. However, for this second time, I'm setting up a 38-gallon, while using a large amount of dry rock that's currently soaking in a bucket with a wavemaker and heater, I purchased 2lbs of Gulf Live Rock rubble. I know it's likely not enough, but that stuff is soooo expensive! I plan to use Caribsea live sand as well as a cupful of sand from my 15-gallon as well as a decent amount of water from the 15, just for added water chemistry stability. I am going to cycle this fishless for a few weeks, but I am not sure how using live rock rubble(even if only 2lbs) will change how this process works. Should I be performing weekly water changes during this time to curb harmful levels of ammonia/nitrite, to limit the amount of die-off from microfauna within the rock? Or rather, should I cycle with the dry rock, sand, and filter sponge before adding the live rock rubble to the tank a bit later? Is there anything else I should be considering? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time!

Everything is fine with your plan except likely the water. It won't hurt using water from the other tank, but I don't think there's going to be a lot of value there either.

The value is in live rock and live sand... And the rubble - all will help kick start things, but how much, I do not know. Normal testing to see where your cycle is is required, and for the dry rock you'll likely have ugly stages on those surfaces.

 

[CatsandClowns]

Everything is fine with your plan except likely the water. It won't hurt using water from the other tank, but I don't think there's going to be a lot of value there either.

The value is in live rock and live sand... And the rubble - all will help kick start things, but how much, I do not know. Normal testing to see where your cycle is is required, and for the dry rock you'll likely have ugly stages on those surfaces.

Hello, and thank you Bryan. I get what you're saying with regards to the water, but I suppose it's more of a convenience thing of recycling the water from my water changes. I'm not too concerned about the uglies; they will come and go. Thanks again.

 

[Ruben's Reef]

Hey Ruben, thanks for the advice. So I should have the tank set up for a day or two without the live rock? This would be for matching the right salinity and temperature before adding the live rock.

Yeah, make sure the salinity is right at 1.025 and then add the live rock.

 

[CatsandClowns]

Yeah, make sure the salinity is right at 1.025 and then add the live rock.

One thing I am still a bit hung up on is rising ammonia harming the beneficial bacteria and hitchhikers in the live rock, causing some die-off. I imagine there is bound to be some, in which case, how often should I water change during this time, if at all, or will the bottled bacteria diminish that concern? In my 15-gallon, I performed a large water change only after both nitrite and ammonia were at zero, but the rock I used there had no microfauna except some tiny bristleworms; however, here I'm not so sure if I should be doing the same.

 

[Ruben's Reef]

One thing I am still a bit hung up on is rising ammonia harming the beneficial bacteria and hitchhikers in the live rock, causing some die-off. I imagine there is bound to be some, in which case, how often should I water change during this time, if at all, or will the bottled bacteria diminish that concern? In my 15-gallon, I performed a large water change only after both nitrite and ammonia were at zero, but the rock I used there had no microfauna except some tiny bristleworms; however, here I'm not so sure if I should be doing the same.

How long you have that tank running with dry rocks?

 

[CatsandClowns]

How long you have that tank running with dry rocks?

Ive had this one running for 13 weeks or just over 3 months. The uglies have basically receded on all this rock, and I'm back to semi-clean looking rock, but I don't know if that's long enough to transfer them yet.

 

[Ruben's Reef]

Ive had this one running for 13 weeks or just over 3 months. The uglies have basically receded on all this rock, and I'm back to semi-clean looking rock, but I don't know if that's long enough to transfer them yet.

Then you should be good to go. Like I said, do a water test to make sure the parameters are good and if thats the case you can move the live rock in. Where is the live rock right now?

 

[CatsandClowns]

Then you should be good to go. Like I said, do a water test to make sure the parameters are good and if thats the case you can move the live rock in. Where is the live rock right now?

That is currently in shipment alongside the tank; they should arrive around the same day, if not a day apart. They should both arrive by the end of the week. However, I am going to wait until everything is ready to go, rock and sand, and water all mixed to salinity and temp, so it may take a few days to prep. It can't hurt to wait a bit. It'll give more time for the dry rock to soak

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

One thing I am still a bit hung up on is rising ammonia harming the beneficial bacteria and hitchhikers in the live rock, causing some die-off. I imagine there is bound to be some, in which case, how often should I water change during this time, if at all, or will the bottled bacteria diminish that concern? In my 15-gallon, I performed a large water change only after both nitrite and ammonia were at zero, but the rock I used there had no microfauna except some tiny bristleworms; however, here I'm not so sure if I should be doing the same.

That's not a likely concern.

I'd also avoid bottled bacteria. You are paying good money for live rock. Adding random bacteria may make it less desirable. Don't be fooled by people calling it "good" bacteria.

 

[CatsandClowns]

That's not a likely concern.

I'd also avoid bottled bacteria. You are paying good money for live rock. Adding random bacteria may make it less desirable. Don't be fooled by people calling it "good" bacteria.

Hey Randy, thanks for the reply! If it means spending less money, I'm all for it. But I think youre right, with the sand, rock, and sponge filter, that should be plenty to start with.

 

[Ruben's Reef]

That is currently in shipment alongside the tank; they should arrive around the same day, if not a day apart. They should both arrive by the end of the week. However, I am going to wait until everything is ready to go, rock and sand, and water all mixed to salinity and temp, so it may take a few days to prep. It can't hurt to wait a bit. It'll give more time for the dry rock to soak

I ask you that beacuse you want to make sure not to insert any hitchhiker like Gorilla crab. I got about 20lbs of live rock and I put it on the sump, then I found a gorilla crab in there.

 

[CatsandClowns]

I ask you that beacuse you want to make sure not to insert any hitchhiker like Gorilla crab. I got about 20lbs of live rock and I put it on the sump, then I found a gorilla crab in there.

Since it's rubble, that might make it easier to sort out any unwanted hitchhikers, but would you suggest putting it into an observation tank? I'm afraid four tanks(even if some are temporary) to one room is pushing it for me. I can also give them a rinse in saltwater before being added to the tank. While I am mildly cautious about those bad hitchhikers, I'm not too sure if I will go the extra length of QT the Rock.

 

[Ruben's Reef]

Since it's rubble, that might make it easier to sort out any unwanted hitchhikers, but would you suggest putting it into an observation tank? I'm afraid four tanks(even if some are temporary) to one room is pushing it for me. I can also give them a rinse in saltwater before being added to the tank. While I am mildly cautious about those bad hitchhikers, I'm not too sure if I will go the extra length of QT the Rock.

Agree. Maybe a little rinse on SW will be good enough.

 

[CatsandClowns]

Agree. Maybe a little rinse on SW will be good enough.

Well, I think Ive got a good idea of what I should be taking care of, but I do have a few questions at the end:
Plan:
Thursday: Tank arrives

1. Position the aquarium, ensure its level, and secure it before adding any rock, sand, or water
2. Before tank arrival, rinse the Caribsea live sand thoroughly in RODI water to minimize cloudiness(let overflow 3-5 times whilst stirring); keep in a 5-gallon bucket with a heater and a wavemaker or airstone to keep some bacterial population alive
3. Tank arrives: Place enough fresh(matched temperature and salinity) saltwater into the tank to keep the new rocks fully submerged whilst aquascaping
4. Place Necessary equipment: Wavemaker, heater, and sponge filter; No lights during this time
5. Siphon or shovel rinsed live sand gently to fill the bottom of the tank
6. Place a plastic bag on top of the sand pinned down by a rock: Pour rock overtop the bag to minimize stirring up the newly placed sandbed(expect some cloudiness for about a day at most if the sand was rinsed properly)
7. During this time, use a fine mesh filter sock to capture as many small particles as possible and clear the water a bit faster.

Friday: Live Rock arrives

1. Dunk/Rinse in temp/salinity matched saltwater thoroughly to shake off any debris/detritus and observe for unwanted hitchhikers(pick out if need be)
   1. Look out for nasty, stinky, dirty, ugly hitchhikers
   2. Keep all cool and beneficial hitchhikers
   3. Place Live rock rubble into the aquarium
2. Test ammonia and nitrate daily or every other day
3. Leave alone for as long as any ammonia or nitrite is detectable, then perform a large water change.
4. Then it is safe to transfer my two current fish.

Question 1: Should I actually have the lights on during this time if using live rock?
Question 2: By step 11, would it be advisable or safe to transfer my current rock and corals from my 15-gallon tank to the new tank, or should I do that slowly as well?
Thank you in advance!

 

[Ruben's Reef]

Well, I think Ive got a good idea of what I should be taking care of, but I do have a few questions at the end:
Plan:
Thursday: Tank arrives

1. Position the aquarium, ensure its level, and secure it before adding any rock, sand, or water
2. Before tank arrival, rinse the Caribsea live sand thoroughly in RODI water to minimize cloudiness(let overflow 3-5 times whilst stirring); keep in a 5-gallon bucket with a heater and a wavemaker or airstone to keep some bacterial population alive
3. Tank arrives: Place enough fresh(matched temperature and salinity) saltwater into the tank to keep the new rocks fully submerged whilst aquascaping
4. Place Necessary equipment: Wavemaker, heater, and sponge filter; No lights during this time
5. Siphon or shovel rinsed live sand gently to fill the bottom of the tank
6. Place a plastic bag on top of the sand pinned down by a rock: Pour rock overtop the bag to minimize stirring up the newly placed sandbed(expect some cloudiness for about a day at most if the sand was rinsed properly)
7. During this time, use a fine mesh filter sock to capture as many small particles as possible and clear the water a bit faster.

Friday: Live Rock arrives

1. Dunk/Rinse in temp/salinity matched saltwater thoroughly to shake off any debris/detritus and observe for unwanted hitchhikers(pick out if need be)
   1. Look out for nasty, stinky, dirty, ugly hitchhikers
   2. Keep all cool and beneficial hitchhikers
   3. Place Live rock rubble into the aquarium
2. Test ammonia and nitrate daily or every other day
3. Leave alone for as long as any ammonia or nitrite is detectable, then perform a large water change.
4. Then it is safe to transfer my two current fish.

Question 1: Should I actually have the lights on during this time if using live rock?
Question 2: By step 11, would it be advisable or safe to transfer my current rock and corals from my 15-gallon tank to the new tank, or should I do that slowly as well?
Thank you in advance!

Good plans. Some plans are up to you. I would not rinse the caribea sea sand. I would add the sand in a container slowly to the bottom and with your hands move it to the desired area. Also, I will put the rock first to make sure that is secure on the bottom and then add the sand slowly to not make a mess. The wavemaker will just set it to the lowest posible setting and to the top so doesnt disturb the sand. About the lights, I will turn them on. Patiente is gold on this hobby so make any change slowly. Now, if you have a sump dont use it until the sand settle so you dont get sand in your sump too.

 

[CatsandClowns]

Hey, lil update. So the live rock will be shipping out Monday of next week. This will give me a bit more time to soak the dry rock as well as position the tank and fasten the new lights. I stuck a mature sponge filter and some sand in there until I transfer the rock and sponge into the new tank. When it arrives, I'll put in the live and dry rock all at once.

 

[CatsandClowns]

One thing I am still a bit hung up on is rising ammonia harming the beneficial bacteria and hitchhikers in the live rock, causing some die-off. I imagine there is bound to be some, in which case, how often should I water change during this time, if at all, or will the bottled bacteria diminish that concern? In my 15-gallon, I performed a large water change only after both nitrite and ammonia were at zero, but the rock I used there had no microfauna except some tiny bristleworms; however, here I'm not so sure if I should be doing the same.

That's not a likely concern.

I'd also avoid bottled bacteria. You are paying good money for live rock. Adding random bacteria may make it less desirable. Don't be fooled by people calling it "good" bacteria.

Hey Randy, I didn’t want to make a new thread for this but Im still looking for some advice with the live rock rubble I’ll be using. With your experience, would you cure the live rock rubble for seeding in the display and use the die-off to fuel the ammonia cycle, or, rinse, scrub, then cure for a few weeks beforehand. Moreover, in the case of curing in the display during the cycle, would the ammonia increase from the die-off interfere with my readings of the nitrogen cycle? Thanks again!