Cycling with Microbacter7

OlPainless

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I am on day 3 of starting my fish only tank. Dry rock, live sand, Tidal 110 hob, heater and small powerhead, salinity 1.023, temp 77-78F. The first night i put in a small amount of frozen mysis shrimp and a capful of microbacter7. Day 2 I did another capful of microbacter7, no food. Today I plan on another capful and some pellets as well as testing the water. Just looking for guidance that I am on the right path with microbacter7 and food.
 
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Azedenkae

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I am on day 3 of starting my fish only tank. Dry rock, live sand, Tidal 110 hob, heater and small powerhead, salinity 1.023, temp 77-78F. The first night i put in a small amount of frozen mysis shrimp and a capful of microbacter7. Day 2 I did another capful of microbacter7, no food. Today I plan on another capful and some pellets as well as testing the water. Just looking for guidance that I am on the right path with microbacter7 and food.
Yes, you can cycle with MB7 and food. Well, I did not have success with MB7 cycling my current tank, but there have been people who seemed to have made it work with MB7.

Are you measuring ammonia? My main concern with using food to cycle a tank is, it is not a controlled method to increase ammonia concentrations, so it is important to measure ammonia quite constantly to see how much is being produced and consumed.
 

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I am on day 3 of starting my fish only tank. Dry rock, live sand, Tidal 110 hob, heater and small powerhead, salinity 1.023, temp 77-78F. The first night i put in a small amount of frozen mysis shrimp and a capful of microbacter7. Day 2 I did another capful of microbacter7, no food. Today I plan on another capful and some pellets as well as testing the water. Just looking for guidance that I am on the right path with microbacter7 and food.
Sounds ok if you are in no rush, and keep testing. Some folks find MB7 too slow but your live sand may help it along a bit.
 
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OlPainless

OlPainless

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I’ve been letting it go for a few days but I’m going to start testing today. Should I switch to dr Tim’s and dose measured amounts of ammonia? The wife wants fish a little quicker then a few months.
 

Azedenkae

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I’ve been letting it go for a few days but I’m going to start testing today. Should I switch to dr Tim’s and dose measured amounts of ammonia? The wife wants fish a little quicker then a few months.
Personally, yes I would switch to dosing measured amounts of ammonia. Much easier to track the cycle.

And, if you want it to go way faster, maybe try out FritzZyme Turbo Start 900. @Dr. Reef did a study and found Fritz to be super fast.
 

Azedenkae

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MB7 isn't meant for cycling a new tank. It can make it take longer than not adding any bottled-bacteria at all. All tanks will cycle... eventually. Expect it to take 4-8 weeks on your current path.
Oh hey, you're here. I always meant to message you but keep on forgetting. I remember last time you mentioned that MB7 does not have nitrifiers or something along those lines. Are you able to elaborate? I'd love to understand this better.
 
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OlPainless

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Just did my first test, ammonia looks slightly elevated, no2 and no3 look like 0.
 

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Crabby48

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Microbacter7 isn’t the best option. If you look at brightwell products they have a few bac bottles contains a strain for a job.
XLM to start then clean during uglies followed with 7. Clean can be skipped.
 
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schuby

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Oh hey, you're here. I always meant to message you but keep on forgetting. I remember last time you mentioned that MB7 does not have nitrifiers or something along those lines. Are you able to elaborate? I'd love to understand this better.
This post is the basis of my statement about MB7. I have tremendous confidence and respect for Lasse.

 

Azedenkae

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This post is the basis of my statement about MB7. I have tremendous confidence and respect for Lasse.

Gotcha. Your reply to my thread the other day that said MB7 is not a source of nitrifying bacteria confused me with your reply to this thread today.

But yes, absolutely, I agree that when given the choice I would opt to culture nitrifiers in my aquarium first, followed by other microbes. I think at this point it is general knowledge though that MB7 contains both autotrophic nitrifiers and a bunch of different heterotrophs, that's probably not really a point of contention.

I can see issues with using MB7 especially when cycling with shrimp or fish food or similar as the availability of organic compounds may allow heterotrophs to reproduce vastly faster than the autotrophs we want to culture, and may slow things down. That's why I was not exactly surprised by the bacterial bloom while cycling my current tank with MB7.

What I am curious about though, is why MB7 is so slow compared to everything else it seems. I mean, if I cycle without any organic compounds added, I'd expect the heterotrophs to just die out or hibernate or something and yeah, even then that'd probs still mean the nitrifiers have to deal with all the competition for a few days until everything is depleted, but after that... should be smooth sailing.

Plus when people use something like a piece of live rock to seed a tank... I'd imagine it should have a similar effect, as it probably would also contain a variety of autotrophs (including the nitrifiers we want) and heterotrophs and that seems to progress faster than MB7.

Hm...

Maybe MB7 is just a bad product in general. >_>
 

schuby

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Gotcha. Your reply to my thread the other day that said MB7 is not a source of nitrifying bacteria confused me with your reply to this thread today.

But yes, absolutely, I agree that when given the choice I would opt to culture nitrifiers in my aquarium first, followed by other microbes. I think at this point it is general knowledge though that MB7 contains both autotrophic nitrifiers and a bunch of different heterotrophs, that's probably not really a point of contention.

I can see issues with using MB7 especially when cycling with shrimp or fish food or similar as the availability of organic compounds may allow heterotrophs to reproduce vastly faster than the autotrophs we want to culture, and may slow things down. That's why I was not exactly surprised by the bacterial bloom while cycling my current tank with MB7.

What I am curious about though, is why MB7 is so slow compared to everything else it seems. I mean, if I cycle without any organic compounds added, I'd expect the heterotrophs to just die out or hibernate or something and yeah, even then that'd probs still mean the nitrifiers have to deal with all the competition for a few days until everything is depleted, but after that... should be smooth sailing.

Plus when people use something like a piece of live rock to seed a tank... I'd imagine it should have a similar effect, as it probably would also contain a variety of autotrophs (including the nitrifiers we want) and heterotrophs and that seems to progress faster than MB7.

Hm...

Maybe MB7 is just a bad product in general. >_>
The autotrophic and heterotrophic details are beyond me. By putting in the non-desired bacteria (from a bottle), it makes sense to me that the cycle is slower than if you hadn't added any. Adding more of the desired bacteria (from a bottle), it makes sense to me that the cycle can be accelerated (given a sufficient food source such as dead shrimp or 2ppm-ammonia-dose).

I think MB7 has its place and usefulness. It's just not during a tank's initial cycle.

You mentioned added live rock from the start. I believe that real, live rock contains an abundance of all necessary bacteria, not just a little that needs to multiply. This is why tanks started will all live rock doesn't seem to have a cycle: they already have sufficient bacterial populations of a mature tank.
 

Azedenkae

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The autotrophic and heterotrophic details are beyond me. By putting in the non-desired bacteria (from a bottle), it makes sense to me that the cycle is slower than if you hadn't added any. Adding more of the desired bacteria (from a bottle), it makes sense to me that the cycle can be accelerated (given a sufficient food source such as dead shrimp or 2ppm-ammonia-dose).

I think MB7 has its place and usefulness. It's just not during a tank's initial cycle.

You mentioned added live rock from the start. I believe that real, live rock contains an abundance of all necessary bacteria, not just a little that needs to multiply. This is why tanks started will all live rock doesn't seem to have a cycle: they already have sufficient bacterial populations of a mature tank.
Yeah I generally agree. Though still ponder about the live rock situation, note I am talking about using live rock to seed a tank, not when one fills up an entire tank with live rock from the get go. If we consider MB7 to be good after we have already established the nitrifiers we need, then the other microbes in MB7 would be considered beneficial in the long run.

So conceptually, this would not really be too different from live rock where we'd have all manners of beneficial microbes, including both the nitrifiers for ammonia oxidation to nitrate, and whatever other microbes there are, probably including a bunch of heterotrophs that may be similar to those in MB7.

Though this is coming from my personal experience. Even cycling with a small piece of live rock and the rest dry rock, my cycle shows movements in days max, and cycled in like two weeks. So way faster than MB7. But maybe it depends on the live rock too, and perhaps you are right that they contain such an abundance of beneficial microbes that even just seeding a tank with a small piece of live rock introduces far more beneficial microbes than MB7, so despite any competition the nitrifiers still manage to get established.

Eh, either way. Just some interesting considerations I had through all these observations that MB7 does not seem to be working super great. Would be super keen for a proper study, but eh, too lazy. XD
 

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Yeah I generally agree. Though still ponder about the live rock situation, note I am talking about using live rock to seed a tank, not when one fills up an entire tank with live rock from the get go. If we consider MB7 to be good after we have already established the nitrifiers we need, then the other microbes in MB7 would be considered beneficial in the long run.

So conceptually, this would not really be too different from live rock where we'd have all manners of beneficial microbes, including both the nitrifiers for ammonia oxidation to nitrate, and whatever other microbes there are, probably including a bunch of heterotrophs that may be similar to those in MB7.

Though this is coming from my personal experience. Even cycling with a small piece of live rock and the rest dry rock, my cycle shows movements in days max, and cycled in like two weeks. So way faster than MB7. But maybe it depends on the live rock too, and perhaps you are right that they contain such an abundance of beneficial microbes that even just seeding a tank with a small piece of live rock introduces far more beneficial microbes than MB7, so despite any competition the nitrifiers still manage to get established.

Eh, either way. Just some interesting considerations I had through all these observations that MB7 does not seem to be working super great. Would be super keen for a proper study, but eh, too lazy. XD
I used a few small bits of live to seed a dry rock bare bottom, didn’t get a brown stage, went straight to green after a few diatoms.

Edit - I also added a few glugs of MB7 while it was still lights out.

Edit again - I also ghost fed.

Oh, yeah and a tiny bit of live sand (unrinsed) in the sump. Added a bit of MB Clean and may have put some Seachem stability in also. Basically, looking back, I threw the kitchen sink at it :)
 
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OlPainless

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A lot of good info guys, thanks. This was my 1st test (Day 3) from Friday after dosing a capful of MB7 daily and ghost feeding every other day. 2nd test I did yesterday also resulted about the same, ammonia maybe slightly higher. I am going to continue for another week doing this routine per recommendation from my LFS and see if I need to change anything up.
 

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Arabyps

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Fritz TurboStart 900 is my go to for virtually instant cycling with live fish (a clown or damsel). Microbacter XLM is also a candidate. In any event, you need to be sure you are using LIVE bacteria. These products cost more but are essential.
 

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A lot of good info guys, thanks. This was my 1st test (Day 3) from Friday after dosing a capful of MB7 daily and ghost feeding every other day. 2nd test I did yesterday also resulted about the same, ammonia maybe slightly higher. I am going to continue for another week doing this routine per recommendation from my LFS and see if I need to change anything up.
Any update on how this turned out for you? I'm on day 2 of using Microbacter7 and ghost feeding per my LFS as well. Thanks in advance.
 

brandon429

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It’ll work, you’ve two options

wait till day 20 here as you are set now, change water you’re cycled

or

add one bottle of biospira today, you’re cycled

same ends
 

DocPalmer

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It’ll work, you’ve two options

wait till day 20 here as you are set now, change water you’re cycled

or

add one bottle of biospira today, you’re cycled

same ends
Thanks for the prompt reply. I'm not necessarily in a rush, but wondering why my LFS would recommend Microbacter vs the other options? Any idea as to why that may be?
 
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