Dead Clownfish

[Sickness69]

In a tank that new and no culprit you can see, the only thing I can think of is a possible over feeding and it caused an ammonia spike. But this is purely speculation. Or the fish had a preexisting condition.

Tank looks good and the algae you mention looks like the infamous "ugly stage" of cycling. It should go away in a month or two as you will be able to start to blow that stuff off the rocks.

*edit for spelling

 

[rudi 51]

I don’t think it was overfeeding but I will cut back. They were getting 3 or 4 pieces of defrosted mysis shrimp between them then eating them then a few more. I was doing that twice a day while waiting on the pellet food I ordered arriving, which came this morning.

 

[ScottJ]

Not really but these are the first saltwater fish I’ve ever had. They were best buddies, swimming alongside each other when first added, then after a few hours they went their own way a bit more which I figured was a good sign. A little bit of niggle when they went after the same piece of food but nothing persistent. The fish that’s still alive was slightly bigger than the dead one. Dead fish looked perfect, good colour, no frayed fins, just dead.

I would still put aggression near the top of the list, especially because the larger one is the one still swimming. Clowns can be really mean to each other, to other fish, to your hand....

 

[rudi 51]

Hopefully was aggression as the remaining one won’t kill itself.

 

[Fish Fan]

I'm sorry to hear about your Clownfish

How is the remaining Clown acting? Any signs of illness at all?

I don't think this had anything to do with your tank or ammonia, I would look towards Clownfish aggression or some type of disease.

Your phosphate relates to your algae, but would not have caused an issue with your Clownfish.

Good luck going forward!

 

[rudi 51]

Thank you. He seems fine. He’s swimming all round the tank, straight across, up and down. Neither fish had much to do with the rocks or wee corals they just kind of swam around aimlessly until the feeding hatch opened and it was food time occasionally and briefly pecking at the algae. The remaining one just acting the same.

 

[ScottJ]

Hopefully was aggression as the remaining one won’t kill itself.

Be careful introducing another fish. If you are set on a pair of clowns, research how to introduce a new one to an established one. The larger clown (the female) has to accept the smaller clown (the male) as a mate. If she doesn't like him for some reason, things don't go well, especially in a smaller tank.

Nothing wrong with keeping a single clown, by the way. I use to keep a single clown and a tailspot blenny in a tank that size. I liked that combination a lot. They got along peacefully.

 

[rudi 51]

Thanks Scott. I wasn’t really set on any particular fish. I went for clowns because they were hardy fish that were recommended for newcomers. Unless i figure out for sure what caused the death and if the other one lived, i won’t add another. I almost bought one clown and a Royal Gramma but ended up getting the clown pair.

Will just have to wait and see what happens with the remaining one and hopefully add something else in a few weeks.

 

[KrisReef]

But time frame and method etc for the cycle.
Without seeing the tank etc the obvious thing, especially given tank raised clowns, would be an incomplete cycle or secondly some sort of contamination externally/toxin in the water. How long were the tangs in for? TMC uk?

Maybe not. These fish are very competitive and they work hard to select their company in the environment. This same scenario plays out regularly with folks who bring home a “pair” and then the fight is on?

 

[rudi 51]

Hi again. Just an update on the tank and hoping for some more advice.

So the original post was made on Sunday November 16th and unfortunately the other clownfish was found dead on the morning of Monday November 17th. Same thing, dead on the sand, looked perfect. Tested the water again and 0 ammonia again. Tested nitrates and looked around 10. I ordered a Salifert disolved oxygen test in case that was the issue

Should have said I set up the protein skimmer on the sunday as advised. The Astrea Snails are still fine. I didn’t plan to add anything else but when I ordered the snails originally I also ordered two blue legged hermit crabs which were out of stock. The shop said they’d send them , when they had the stock. They arrived and were added on Wednesday 19th November. They are fine. The DO test arrived the same day. The colours are too close to tell the result. So that was a waste of time.

I also bought Hanna checkers for ammonia, nitrate, alkalinity and ph as I find coloured tests hard to read. Alkalinity 10.3 and ph 7.9 from tank with salinity 1.025. I also tested my salt mix water which was 10.4 and 8.

First question the ammonia and nitrate testers arrived today ammonia was 0 but nitrate was also 0. Should I get more nitrate in the tank before adding livestock? Will the bacteria in the tank still work of if I don’t?

Secondly, as I still can’t work out what killed these fish, how do I go about adding more fish?

 

[Uncle99]

What process do you use to acclimate new fish to your system.

Did you check bag salinity with DT salinity and if so, what was the difference.

Shipping many times is low salinity as this is less stressful during transport, but takes a longer time to bring the fish up to DT levels.

To fast can kill. They simply can’t process the higher salt content quickly. I’ve gone an entire day in extreme cases.

Fish going from lower salinity to higher is a major cause of stress.

 

[dinosaur_1552]

Hi again. Just an update on the tank and hoping for some more advice.

So the original post was made on Sunday November 16th and unfortunately the other clownfish was found dead on the morning of Monday November 17th. Same thing, dead on the sand, looked perfect. Tested the water again and 0 ammonia again. Tested nitrates and looked around 10. I ordered a Salifert disolved oxygen test in case that was the issue

Should have said I set up the protein skimmer on the sunday as advised. The Astrea Snails are still fine. I didn’t plan to add anything else but when I ordered the snails originally I also ordered two blue legged hermit crabs which were out of stock. The shop said they’d send them , when they had the stock. They arrived and were added on Wednesday 19th November. They are fine. The DO test arrived the same day. The colours are too close to tell the result. So that was a waste of time.

I also bought Hanna checkers for ammonia, nitrate, alkalinity and ph as I find coloured tests hard to read. Alkalinity 10.3 and ph 7.9 from tank with salinity 1.025. I also tested my salt mix water which was 10.4 and 8.

First question the ammonia and nitrate testers arrived today ammonia was 0 but nitrate was also 0. Should I get more nitrate in the tank before adding livestock? Will the bacteria in the tank still work of if I don’t?

Secondly, as I still can’t work out what killed these fish, how do I go about adding more fish?

Coould be disease if everything else moves around.

Snails etc are moving around? Did the xenia recover?

If snails dont move or xenia still looks bad, then I would add carbon.

A side question how did you add the pods to the water together with their water? I would filter pods and would not add their water as they likely swimming in partial phyto water, which can contain whatever fertiliser they used and that can be anything.

 

[rudi 51]

Thanks for reply. Yeah snails are moving around more and more. Hermit crabs are a bit shy but accounted for them every day. Xenia looks like it’s thriving and the small frag of anthelia after initially shedding bits has rallied round and getting bigger. I also have what I assume is coraline algae but could be some other chemical reaction. Maybe someone could confirm if it is algae?

 

[rudi 51]

I acclimated them by floating the bag for half an hour then pouring half the water out, 1.023 was water from shop, then pouring half the water out the bag, took bag out of tank then put the bag in a jug on countertop and dripped water through an airline tube. It went far too fast at the start and withing ten minutes the bag was up to the level it was. I then messed up as I didn’t have a net small enough to fit in the bag and just ended up pouring all the water from the bag into the tank.

The fish are the only thing in the tank that weren’t shipped. The only shop within 30 miles of me only has a small marine section including clownfish

 

[Australian_Reef]

I think we can rule out aggression then. The fact that the snails and corals seem fine may indicate disease, in my experience TMC are a very reliable source but maybe not the lfs …nothing is perfect. The other possibility is oxygenation as was mentioned before but the skimmer will have solved this. Your acclimatisation seems fine except the adding the bag water to the tank.. although I know people do this all of the time!

Any signs of disease that you saw? Any strange behaviour. Swimming funny? Scratching? Swimming into flow? Adding other fish really depends if it’s disease.. and if so what disease.

 

[rudi 51]

I think we can rule out aggression then. The fact that the snails and corals seem fine may indicate disease, in my experience TMC are a very reliable source but maybe not the lfs …nothing is perfect. The other possibility is oxygenation as was mentioned before. Did you get the skimmer online?

Any signs of disease that you saw?

Hello again. Thanks for reply. Yeah, skimmer running now. After a lot of thought and the pointers on here I think it’s one of three things.

1) disease, unlikely because both fish looked so healthy but a possibility.

2) lack of oxygen, possible as had a big increase in diatoms and fish were fine during lights on.

3) undetected ammonia spike which had remedied by morning. For that to happen twice, two nights in a row?

I’ve done a couple of water changes and bought some live rock rubble sitting in a containers which I’m adding slowly. Hopefully that will stabilise the tank further.

Anything else you think I should do before adding more fish?

 

[Skippy The Meh]

I think we can rule out aggression then. The fact that the snails and corals seem fine may indicate disease, in my experience TMC are a very reliable source but maybe not the lfs …nothing is perfect. The other possibility is oxygenation as was mentioned before. Did you get the skimmer online?

Any signs of disease that you saw?

Hello again. Thanks for reply. Yeah, skimmer running now. After a lot of thought and the pointers on here I think it’s one of three things.

1) disease, unlikely because both fish looked so healthy but a possibility.

2) lack of oxygen, possible as had a big increase in diatoms and fish were fine during lights on.

3) undetected ammonia spike which had remedied by morning. For that to happen twice, two nights in a row?

I’ve done a couple of water changes and bought some live rock rubble sitting in a containers which I’m adding slowly. Hopefully that will stabilise the tank further.

Anything else you think I should do before adding more fish?

Hey there been following along, and have some advice as ive gone through this exact thing before.

My first tank was a 15G AIO. And when i first set it up i had a near identical experience to yours. Here are some things i learned:

1: time and patience are key, tge more time a tank has to stabilize the better. Im talking months unfortunately

2: dont under estimate how quickly water parameters can swing in a small tank

3: clown fish are the absolute worst fish to start a tank with idc what every fish store says. I killed tons from various causes. I recommend starting a tank that size with a single PJ. They aren’t very attractive fish, they dont move around alot but they are hardy as heck and peaceful with all other species. They will help cycle the tank.

4: copepods are great… until you get a wrasse and or a tang and they just munch them all up. Skip to a small uv clarifier.

5: phosphates are (imo) the biggest danger to a nee reefer

6: high calcium 550 ppm + can kill fish ( learned this the hard way, i dont want to talk about it)

7: frequent water changes aren’t as critical as you may think, too frequent in an unestablished tank can actually hurt the reef.

8: stability stability stability… theres tons of water chemistry philosophies, pick one and just stick to it.

Hope this helps.

 

[rudi 51]

Hey there been following along, and have some advice as ive gone through this exact thing before.

My first tank was a 15G AIO. And when i first set it up i had a near identical experience to yours. Here are some things i learned:

1: time and patience are key, tge more time a tank has to stabilize the better. Im talking months unfortunately

2: dont under estimate how quickly water parameters can swing in a small tank

3: clown fish are the absolute worst fish to start a tank with idc what every fish store says. I killed tons from various causes. I recommend starting a tank that size with a single PJ. They aren’t very attractive fish, they dont move around alot but they are hardy as heck and peaceful with all other species. They will help cycle the tank.

4: copepods are great… until you get a wrasse and or a tang and they just munch them all up. Skip to a small uv clarifier.

5: phosphates are (imo) the biggest danger to a nee reefer

6: high calcium 550 ppm + can kill fish ( learned this the hard way, i dont want to talk about it)

7: frequent water changes aren’t as critical as you may think, too frequent in an unestablished tank can actually hurt the reef.

8: stability stability stability… theres tons of water chemistry philosophies, pick one and just stick to it.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the advice. One thing im not sure about is if i leave the tank with it’s current inhabitants will the benficial bacteria just die off causing a spike when I do add fish?

 

[Australian_Reef]

Hello again. Thanks for reply. Yeah, skimmer running now. After a lot of thought and the pointers on here I think it’s one of three things.

1) disease, unlikely because both fish looked so healthy but a possibility.

2) lack of oxygen, possible as had a big increase in diatoms and fish were fine during lights on.

3) undetected ammonia spike which had remedied by morning. For that to happen twice, two nights in a row?

I’ve done a couple of water changes and bought some live rock rubble sitting in a containers which I’m adding slowly. Hopefully that will stabilise the tank further.

Anything else you think I should do before adding more fish?

I think you are on the right lines but your inverts and coral are far more sensitive that your clownfish. More sensitive to ammonia, O2 would be solved with the skimmer, so it’s either a water issue (that doesn’t affect inverts) or most likely an issue with those fish.

So If they are in fact doing well then it’s not a water parameter issue. So imho that leaves disease as a likely cause. But what disease? Have you asked on ultimate reef?

Clownfish are a great first fish. I’ve never had a tank without clownfish. Most tanks have a clownfish. It’s one of the few species that go from absolute beginner to total expert.

 

[Australian_Reef]

Thanks for the advice. One thing im not sure about is if i leave the tank with it’s current inhabitants will the benficial bacteria just die off causing a spike when I do add fish?

No. They will be fine for many many weeks. You can always add a little fish food if your are concerned