Debugging Acro STN Event

[hunterallen40]

Hi,

I recently lost several of my acroporas to STN. They were doing really well, but I ran into a destabilization issue recently. I had a really bad briopsis infestation and treated with ReefFlux for two and a half weeks. Once per week I did a 20 gallon water change (it's a 75 gallon system, so that was pretty hefty) pre-dosed with new reef flux. The acros started to die about a week into treatment (sensitive ones going first).

While temperature wasn't particularly stable (worst spike was ~2 degrees due to controller error (which was user error, I should admit)). In addition, the die off spiked my nitrates and phosphates, with phosphates reading as high as 0.3 at one point and nitrates around 20 ppm (usually nitrate is not detectible and the phosphate is < 0.1, usually less than 0.5). That might be sufficient, but I feel like my acros have survived worse before.

So I sent off for an ICP test... Got some unexpected results in Tin levels and Copper levels, but nothing too extreme (at least to my knowledge). I would really appreciate it if someone could take a look and tell me if anything jumps out to them.

My acros continue to wither away, and it's really disappointing. My other SPS are not looking great (really lacking color), but aren't bleaching or necrosing like the acros. LPS seem unaffected (though one of my torches and one of my hammers are unusually swollen).

The sample here is from three 10 gallon water changes ago (I use tropic Marin syn-biotic salt), and things generally have been looking better since.

Analysis result

ATI Aquaristik - Lab

lab.atiaquaristik.com

Any advice? RO came back completely undetected for everything.

 

[MnFish1]

Sorry about your corals. As everyone says, stability is key for Coral, especially SPS - and that LPS can sometimes do better during instability than SPS. In any case - I would suggest that the combination of things that were unstable (which you listed above) - started a type of cascade.

1. Corals can release chemicals as they are stressed/dying - which can cause more stress to the rest.
2. With death, etc - there can be elevations in ammonia, etc - that are temporary - and can cause problems. Additionally, if a coral is infected with something this can spread more quickly at higher temperature - and the more bacteria, etc - the more disease on the coral?
3. Do you use Carbon (i.e. activated carbon) - which can help remove things 'we can't measure'

 

[hunterallen40]

2. With death, etc - there can be elevations in ammonia, etc - that are temporary - and can cause problems. Additionally, if a coral is infected with something this can spread more quickly at higher temperature - and the more bacteria, etc - the more disease on the coral?

That makes sense. We were keeping the temperature around 77 F, but had spikes significantly higher into the low 80's.

Do you use Carbon (i.e. activated carbon) - which can help remove things 'we can't measure'

Yes; this was, however, removed for the treatment. Hopefully things clear up soon.

Anything in the ICP test look alarming?

 

[ScottB]

That makes sense. We were keeping the temperature around 77 F, but had spikes significantly higher into the low 80's.



Yes; this was, however, removed for the treatment. Hopefully things clear up soon.

Anything in the ICP test look alarming?

Sorry for the losses.
I would run some cuprasorb and/or metasorb just to have a little more comfort. I had an ATI come back with 3.46 on copper, but this was not flagged with a Red arrow. You just barely tripped the flag. Same with Tin probably.

It is a little too late, but your experience with Fluc is, sadly, more common than you might think. I don't know what the real denominator value is, but I have read about at least 60-70 super negative SPS outcomes using Fluc. I've seen one personally, and it wasn't pretty at all. My LFS has used it 100s of times and maybe 1/10 time it crushes SPS.

If you go and read the "My battle with Bryopsis" mega thread here, you will see what I mean. It is pretty rare, but it does happen. Often it is RTN. We have not figured out why it happens sometimes & not others. I have my own speculation but I cannot substantiate it: either an attack on some sponge or fungus that goes nuclear (Fluc is a fungicide) or a massive release of stored contaminants from the dissolving bryopsis.

With advanced bryopsis outbreaks, you really don't have much choice but to nuke it with Fluc. I always discourage using it against other algae which can be handled without the risk. But bryopsis... not many options.

Again, sorry.

 

[hunterallen40]

I would run some cuprasorb and/or metasorb just to have a little more comfort. I had an ATI come back with 3.46 on copper, but this was not flagged with a Red arrow. You just barely tripped the flag. Same with Tin probably.

That's a good idea. Will definitely make me feel better for sure.

With advanced bryopsis outbreaks, you really don't have much choice but to nuke it with Fluc. I always discourage using it against other algae which can be handled without the risk. But bryopsis... not many options.

Yeah, classic rock and a hard place situation I suppose. It really did kill it, though. Do you know of any natural methods to discourage it? I've read it tastes terrible to tangs and whatnot, but maybe there's some other animal that consumes it?

Sorry for the losses.

Sorry about your corals.

Thank you both. I really do appreciate it. It was quite devastating, but there wasn't much to be done about the bryopsis (as it was starting to smother the acros).

 

[ScottB]

To my knowledge, nobody eats it. I keep foxface in every tank and I would swear that thing will eat anything, but have been told they won't touch the stuff. Mine was eating chrysophytes at one point.

If you don't catch it early and remove the whole rock, well, rock and a hard place.

 

[MnFish1]

That makes sense. We were keeping the temperature around 77 F, but had spikes significantly higher into the low 80's.



Yes; this was, however, removed for the treatment. Hopefully things clear up soon.

Anything in the ICP test look alarming?

Unless I missed something - I could see only the 'normal version'

 

[X-37B]

Sorry for the loss.
I ran fluc but did not turn off my skimmer and ran it at 1/2 dose.
I ran carbon right after dosing at 2 cups of rox in my 120 which is 2x the normal rox run.
Also run po4 reducing agents if their is a large die off to help keep po4 in range.

I would run cuprisob also.
I dropped an allen screwdriver head months ago into my 120 and could not locate it so I run cuprisorb 24/7/365 and have not seen an issue. I could not tear the rockwork down as it would have been a disaster.

I would also run KZ flatworm stop.
I do not have flatworms but I believe it does help with regeneration after damage.
I run it for increased health of the corals in my system.