Decreasing Ammonia but no nitrites

[Bentheclownfishman]

Good evening everyone.

I’m cycling a Fluval Evo 13.5. I started on 6/28. The tank is stocked with 1 large piece of live rock, and two large pieces of dry rock. I have a Kenya tree and some macro algae that was included with my live rock. I have 2 Red legged Hermits.

I started building up ammonia but after a week of ghost feeding had only made it to .25 ppm. I decided to add Dr. Timm’s ammonia Chloride. I only added 8 gallons worth. Two days later I had ammonia up to 2.0 ppm. I then started using prime and in 3 days time (yesterday) my ammonia went down to 0.5 ppm. I thought that was crazy amount to drop in that amount of time…. Anyway I tested today and I have

pH: 8.0
Ammonia: .25 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 0 ppm (I THINK) see pic

So finally my question:

If my ammonia is decreasing why is my nitrites not increasing? Does it take a few days to convert? I’m stumped.

Some have told me to add a fish and while I know that’s a way I respectfully don’t a think it’s one I want to take. I don’t want to risk it dying. I’d rather wait until I’m cycled or closer at least

 

[KrisReef]

Could be that the live rock is eating the nitrite faster than you can test for it? If ammonia is being consumed there should be nitrite, then nitrate. I think your API is showing a bit of nitrate, so the cycle is doing what it is supposed to do, eat ammonia and produce nitrate.

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Note: Those API test kits are nortorious for confusing folks with color developement that isn't easy to read.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

This has happened to me several times in the past. I believe the bacteria that break down nitrite establish faster than the other type of bacteria and that’s why your seeing this. It’s very normal. If you do a search on it I believe you’ll find that it’s very common as well.

 

[Spare time]

Things on the rock could consume ammonia and not convert it to nitrite, thus little nitrite may be produced. Algae, for example, could be doing this

 

[Spare time]

This has happened to me several times in the past. I believe the bacteria that break down nitrite establish faster than the other type of bacteria and that’s why your seeing this. It’s very normal. If you do a search on it I believe you’ll find that it’s very common as well.

The nitrite removing bacteria replicates more slowly than the ammonia removing bacteria ( at least the species dr tim refers to)

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Also please don’t add fish. Your tank is nowhere close to being cycled. Your ammonia is way too high. Anything you put in there will die. If you want to speed up the process buy bacteria in a bottled. You will know your tank is cycled when your ammonia is zero, nitrite has zero and nitrate is positive.

 

[Bentheclownfishman]

Could be that the live rock is eating the nitrite faster than you can test for it? If ammonia is being consumed there should be nitrite, then nitrate. I think your API is showing a bit of nitrate, so the cycle is doing what it is supposed to do, eat ammonia and produce nitrate.

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Note: Those API test kits are nortorious for confusing folks with color developement that isn't easy to read.


Thank you!!! I have heard that they aren’t accurate as well. Someday when I have more money I’ll invest in a better one hopefully

I was kinda thinking there was some nitrates as well but I couldn’t tell. The yellows look so similar to me… what would you do next? I was going to let ammonia go down to 0 and then add a bit more or Dr.Timm’s ammonia (as of now I’ve stopped adding)

Could be that the live rock is eating the nitrite faster than you can test for it? If ammonia is being consumed there should be nitrite, then nitrate. I think your API is showing a bit of nitrate, so the cycle is doing what it is supposed to do, eat ammonia and produce nitrate.

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Note: Those API test kits are nortorious for confusing folks with color developement that isn't easy to read.

. I’m tempted to order some turbo, but I’m not sure how it works. I know it’s beneficial bacteria but does it REALLY do all it needs to and does it stay in the system….

 

[Bentheclownfishman]

Also please don’t add fish. Your tank is nowhere close to being cycled. Your ammonia is way too high. Anything you put in there will die. If you want to speed up the process buy bacteria in a bottled. You will know your tank is cycled when your ammonia is zero, nitrite has zero and nitrate is posite

 

[cairolip21]

This has happened to me quite a few times. It's not always an exact process since you're dealing with living bacteria. Wait it out until the nitrate starts to rise and slowly begin to add fish then. I've gone through full cycles using live rock without seeing the tank spike as it "should"

 

[IslandLifeReef]

@Bentheclownfishman, there are a couple of things at play here. First, the live rock that you have in the tank is more than likely able to consume the ammonia and NO2 very rapidly. Since you ghost fed your tank for about a week prior to adding the ammonia, the bacteria on the live rock was probably able to multiply and spread to the dry rock.

Second, 0.25 ammonia on an API test is more than likely 0.00. This has been proven time and again.

Third, adding prime to the tank may cause false readings on some of your tests. When cycling a tank, I would stay away from detoxifiers unless you have fish in the tank and an ammonia spike.

Forth, I would not add any more ammonia to the tank because you do have real "live rock" in your tank. Ammonia could cause a massive die off of the living flora and fauna on that live rock. In this case, the addition of Prime probably helped protect those items from the added ammonia.

Finally, I would give it a week with maybe one more ghost feed, and then if the ammonia test reads 0.25 or less, you could add fish. Just take it slowly.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Also please don’t add fish. Your tank is nowhere close to being cycled. Your ammonia is way too high. Anything you put in there will die. If you want to speed up the process buy bacteria in a bottled. You will know your tank is cycled when your ammonia is zero, nitrite has zero and nitrate is positive.

This is not correct. The ammonia reading from the API test is fine. There are many posts showing that API ammonia tests can show 0.25 when ammonia is actually 0.00. Even if the ammonia were 0.25, it is not to high to kill anything that is put in the tank. That piece of live rock in a 13.5 gallon tank is more than capable of handling fish.

 

[Bentheclownfishman]

I definitely want to wait. Not sure why some are giving me that advice. I definitely don’t want to risk killing one. I’m tempted to order some turbo or other bottled bacteria. Any thoughts on this?

 

[IslandLifeReef]

I definitely want to wait. Not sure why some are giving me that advice. I definitely don’t want to risk killing one. I’m tempted to order some turbo or other bottled bacteria. Any thoughts on this?

Turbo wouldn't hurt, but I'm not sure it is really needed. When you added that piece of live rock to your tank, you did more for it than you could by adding anything in a bottle.

Patience in this hobby is a good thing, and I am not trying to convince you to add fish sooner than you want. I am simply telling you that if your ammonia reading stays the same, I wouldn't see a problem adding a fish or two in a week. It is obviously up to you.

 

[brandon429]

You can't make the tank safer for fish by buying anything or waiting longer

=the power of live rock as island stated


If you want safe fish read and apply the stickies from the disease forum before you add any. Waiting longer or adding bacteria does not make the tank safe for fish.

 

[brandon429]

Imagine that system above with none of the white rocks, just the small live rock in the dead center with plants on it

it can carry more bioload than we’d think. Thousands of nano reefs are minimal scape setups and still carry two clownfish and a shrimp with just that degree of rock. It’s not like he was going to put six fish in at once even when it was cycled for the white rocks. Any common starting bioload added lives because that rock can already carry a few fish right out of the gate. *if it was uncycled white rock up top, and that live rock in a sump with only a tiny inlet hose for delivery down to the sump then it wouldn’t be as efficient at removing waste like it is in the dead center of the scape.


*what test kits say don’t impact much here at all, this is a skip cycle primarily as Island mentioned and then a simple time delay cycle for the rest of the rocks if we deem that they matter overall.


no more dosing of prime is needed nor feed


no more testing is needed. Be reading the disease preps you want to apply. When you’re ready to apply them, your tank will receive them well. Tempted to skip preps? then move down from the stickies pages at the top of the disease forum down to the threads section and read the patterns, this is where you’ll be posting by December to the tune of 80% likely.

 

[Bentheclownfishman]

Imagine that system above with none of the white rocks, just the small live rock in the dead center with plants on it

it can carry more bioload than we’d think. Thousands of nano reefs are minimal scape setups and still carry two clownfish and a shrimp with just that degree of rock. It’s not like he was going to put six fish in at once even when it was cycled for the white rocks. Any common starting bioload added lives because that rock can already carry a few fish right out of the gate. *if it was uncycled white rock up top, and that live rock in a sump with only a tiny inlet hose for delivery down to the sump then it wouldn’t be as efficient at removing waste like it is in the dead center of the scape.


*what test kits say don’t impact much here at all, this is a skip cycle primarily as Island mentioned and then a simple time delay cycle for the rest of the rocks if we deem that they matter overall.


no more dosing of prime is needed nor feed


no more testing is needed. Be reading the disease preps you want to apply. When you’re ready to apply them, your tank will receive them well. Tempted to skip preps? then move down from the stickies pages at the top of the disease forum down to the threads section and read the patterns, this is where you’ll be posting by December to the tune of 80% likely.

I am definitely scared of getting ich, and velvet. I did buy my hermit crabs from Petco…. I hope their shells don’t have anything. Tanks were clean and staff was super super knowledgeable so hope I’m in the clear. I’m considering buying my clowns there but not sure….

Do you have any must have preps? I really wish I had the space and equipment for a quariuntine tank but not at this point in time…

Also thank you for your help! I REALLY all are SO HELPFUL!

 

[Bentheclownfishman]

Turbo wouldn't hurt, but I'm not sure it is really needed. When you added that piece of live rock to your tank, you did more for it than you could by adding anything in a bottle.

Patience in this hobby is a good thing, and I am not trying to convince you to add fish sooner than you want. I am simply telling you that if your ammonia reading stays the same, I wouldn't see a problem adding a fish or two in a week. It is obviously up to you.

Okay, thank you for your help! I really appreciate it. You all are life savers! I’m gonna look into disease preps and then may get the fish here within the next week unless I need more time to prep…

 

[Bentheclownfishman]

This has happened to me quite a few times. It's not always an exact process since you're dealing with living bacteria. Wait it out until the nitrate starts to rise and slowly begin to add fish then. I've gone through full cycles using live rock without seeing the tank spike as it "should"

Thank you!

 

[Bentheclownfishman]

I am definitely scared of getting ich, and velvet. I did buy my hermit crabs from Petco…. I hope their shells don’t have anything. Tanks were clean and staff was super super knowledgeable so hope I’m in the clear. I’m considering buying my clowns there but not sure….

Do you have any must have preps? I really wish I had the space and equipment for a quariuntine tank but not at this point in time…

Also thank you for your help! I REALLY all are SO HELPFUL!

Imagine that system above with none of the white rocks, just the small live rock in the dead center with plants on it

it can carry more bioload than we’d think. Thousands of nano reefs are minimal scape setups and still carry two clownfish and a shrimp with just that degree of rock. It’s not like he was going to put six fish in at once even when it was cycled for the white rocks. Any common starting bioload added lives because that rock can already carry a few fish right out of the gate. *if it was uncycled white rock up top, and that live rock in a sump with only a tiny inlet hose for delivery down to the sump then it wouldn’t be as efficient at removing waste like it is in the dead center of the scape.


*what test kits say don’t impact much here at all, this is a skip cycle primarily as Island mentioned and then a simple time delay cycle for the rest of the rocks if we deem that they matter overall.


no more dosing of prime is needed nor feed


no more testing is needed. Be reading the disease preps you want to apply. When you’re ready to apply them, your tank will receive them well. Tempted to skip preps? then move down from the stickies pages at the top of the disease forum down to the threads section and read the patterns, this is where you’ll be posting by December to the tune of 80% likely.

Obviously having a fallow period in quarantine is ideal, but I have limited funds (I know, not a great hobby for that…) and space. Thinking about ordering some safety stop, and maybe some copper and or prazi pro… I’m going to do more research

I know I’m a novice, and this sounds dumb but I have little to no desire to have a huge elaborate scape (just want a pair of clowns, and maybe pulsing zinnia, and green star polyps. I may need another CUC member… not sure. I’m really just in it for the clowns, that’s my main reason. Just want something to watch grow and give some love. Plus they’re my favorite fish.

Way down the line maybe a small clown Goby, but not until I actually can get a quarantine tank. Probably won’t add more coral until then either.

Would it be completely stupid of me to just use those or similar preventatives and treat the display as my quarintine? If the clowns die or get disease I’ll be really upset, but they would die/ get disease in the quarantine as well. If they did unfortunately die in the display couldn’t I go fish-less for a few months to kill the diseases, bacteria etc?

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Imagine that system above with none of the white rocks, just the small live rock in the dead center with plants on it


Obviously having a fallow period in quarantine is ideal, but I have limited funds (I know, not a great hobby for that…) and space. Thinking about ordering some safety stop, and maybe some copper and or prazi pro… I’m going to do more research

I know I’m a novice, and this sounds dumb but I have little to no desire to have a huge elaborate scape (just want a pair of clowns, and maybe pulsing zinnia, and green star polyps. I may need another CUC member… not sure. I’m really just in it for the clowns, that’s my main reason. Just want something to watch grow and give some love. Plus they’re my favorite fish.

Way down the line maybe a small clown Goby, but not until I actually can get a quarantine tank. Probably won’t add more coral until then either.

Would it be completely stupid of me to just use those or similar preventatives and treat the display as my quarintine? If the clowns die or get disease I’ll be really upset, but they would die/ get disease in the quarantine as well. If they did unfortunately die in the display couldn’t I go fish-less for a few months to kill the diseases, bacteria etc?

Do you have a LFS (local fish store) other than PetCo? I do not have a quarantine tank and have been reefing since the early 90's. My method is to only buy from a reputable LFS and never buy a fish that has just arrived to the store. If I see a fish I like, I will wait a week or two, watching the fish for signs of illness before purchasing.

If you plan on ever having coral in that tank, you can never add copper to it. If you do, it will be a fish only tank.