Dendronephthya & Scleronephthya aquaculture

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Aclamation time

And food for the children

From Sea Dwelling Creatures

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Quality Marine, bad customer service, waiting on Robert, new customer comes in signs in. Im next. Acct. Mgr, (Luke)said, Robert will see me next. Instead, people behind me see him?robert)first. Horrible service. Ill never do business there.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

4 new children

 

[AcroNem]

I sincerely hope you are successful with them this time.

As we discussed previously, flow speed/type as well as food type and particle density are what you need to focus on. It will take a month or so for one that comes in healthy to show signs of starvation, your first week or so doesn't tell you very much as they will inflate normally regardless of food in the water unless something is horribly wrong.

They likely feed heavily on bacteria, which is something I've had success with after adding it to food mixtures. I've also had a lot of success (and there are papers on this showing capture in the wild by many non photosynthetic species of corals, gorgonians and bivalves) by incorporating Diatoms into their diet. The species Thalassiosira weissflogii and T. pseudonana are available from Reed Mariculture. They're the perfect size for many species and I've seen a lot of success after adding them. Dendronephthya may capture quite a bit of green Phytoplankton species but it obviously isn't where they get the majority of their nutrients from or we would have had success with them by now.

What other foods are you planning on incorporating? and how will you be supplying flow and food? It's a very interesting system, you should be able to keep nutrients where you want them, luckily Dendronephthya can handle a wide range. Keep us updated on how they're doing.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

I sincerely hope you are successful with them this time.

As we discussed previously, flow speed/type as well as food type and particle density are what you need to focus on. It will take a month or so for one that comes in healthy to show signs of starvation, your first week or so doesn't tell you very much as they will inflate normally regardless of food in the water unless something is horribly wrong.

They likely feed heavily on bacteria, which is something I've had success with after adding it to food mixtures. I've also had a lot of success (and there are papers on this showing capture in the wild by many non photosynthetic species of corals, gorgonians and bivalves) by incorporating Diatoms into their diet. The species Thalassiosira weissflogii and T. pseudonana are available from Reed Mariculture. They're the perfect size for many species and I've seen a lot of success after adding them. Dendronephthya may capture quite a bit of green Phytoplankton species but it obviously isn't where they get the majority of their nutrients from or we would have had success with them by now.

What other foods are you planning on incorporating? and how will you be supplying flow and food? It's a very interesting system, you should be able to keep nutrients where you want them, luckily Dendronephthya can handle a wide range. Keep us updated on how they're doing.

Thanks for sharing that.
Tank dezign this time seems more effiecent, being compact. Two eflux stream pump, master/slave.
Foods, grind up whole shrimp, whole fish, squid, Prochlorococcus, phytofeast, and last secret bacteria. Still in test stages. Looks promising.

These last 4 carnation corals, very healthy

 

[AcroNem]

Thanks for sharing that.
Tank dezign this time seems more effiecent, being compact. Two eflux stream pump, master/slave.
Foods, grind up whole shrimp, whole fish, squid, Prochlorococcus, phytofeast, and last secret bacteria. Still in test stages. Looks promising.

These last 4 carnation corals, very healthy

How fine are you getting the foods you're blending? 50micron is about as large as they'll be able to eat. And again, there are papers that show what they capture in the wild, we simply need to supply it to them in correct density and consistency and laminar flow in the correct speed. I kept mine in a particle density of 5,000 cells per cubic centimeter and flow speed of 20cm/s. Flow speed requirements vary with polyp size and density of course.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Snuck up on them.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

How fine are you getting the foods you're blending? 50micron is about as large as they'll be able to eat. And again, there are papers that show what they capture in the wild, we simply need to supply it to them in correct density and consistency and laminar flow in the correct speed. I kept mine in a particle density of 5,000 cells per cubic centimeter and flow speed of 20cm/s. Flow speed requirements vary with polyp size and density of course.

Finer than 50 microns. We'll see, if they live long & prosper

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Wish you could see what i see.
The creation is beautiful. Nothing man made comes close.

Just mind boggling

 

[biophilia]

They likely feed heavily on bacteria, which is something I've had success with after adding it to food mixtures. I've also had a lot of success (and there are papers on this showing capture in the wild by many non photosynthetic species of corals, gorgonians and bivalves) by incorporating Diatoms into their diet. The species Thalassiosira weissflogii and T. pseudonana are available from Reed Mariculture. They're the perfect size for many species and I've seen a lot of success after adding them. Dendronephthya may capture quite a bit of green Phytoplankton species but it obviously isn't where they get the majority of their nutrients from or we would have had success with them by now.

The bacteria feeding idea is really interesting to me and something I keep running into with people claiming some level of success with these corals. I know Fabricius et al. showed Dendronephthya can get more than enough food from phytoplankton alone, but obviously something is missing given the track record. Since the polyps likely can't capture bacteria/picoplankton directly (I think?) and some have theorized that mucus flocs from nearby corals carry bacteria to the polyps, how can it be provided in a Dendronepthya-only system? Could enough bacteria be provided just by whatever happens to attach to any zooplankton that is fed? Or might it attach to something like Two Little Fishies Marine Snow?

 

[biophilia]

The biologist who wrote the Advanced Aquarist article on Dendronepthya and NPS care back in 2002 works at the PA I volunteer at and I got a chance to speak with him briefly about it yesterday. Mentioned your build to him @Jomama . He's of the opinion that too much food at any given time can possibly bombard the polyps and contribute to them closing up. A slow, but near constant infusion of food works best, but I'm pretty sure I read in your previous thread that you're already feeding that way!

 

[biophilia]

Another thing I wonder: maybe it's not that consuming bacterioplankton as a carbon source is in itself crucial, but rather that a continued input of some variety of bacteria is necessary to maintain a healthy microbiome within these corals. Maybe without it their microbiome changes in such a way as to negatively alter their nutrient metabolism or some other internal process?

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Thanks for sharing that. Lot of info.

I heard too much food not good, i reduced. Looks good so far. Many thanks. Pick that guys brain more. Heehee. Thx

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Another thing I wonder: maybe it's not that consuming bacterioplankton as a carbon source is in itself crucial, but rather that a continued input of some variety of bacteria is necessary to maintain a healthy microbiome within these corals. Maybe without it their microbiome changes in such a way as to negatively alter their nutrient metabolism or some other internal process?

One more, i cant find any info on net, on the purple one. The diver that harvest it says they grow spikes for polyps, not 8 tentacles per polyp. Odd . Ask him if he knows anything about this coral. Latin name? If possible thx

Diver sent this

In near future , I see an SPS & softies reef tank.

 

[AcroNem]

The bacteria feeding idea is really interesting to me and something I keep running into with people claiming some level of success with these corals. I know Fabricius et al. showed Dendronephthya can get more than enough food from phytoplankton alone, but obviously something is missing given the track record. Since the polyps likely can't capture bacteria/picoplankton directly (I think?) and some have theorized that mucus flocs from nearby corals carry bacteria to the polyps, how can it be provided in a Dendronepthya-only system? Could enough bacteria be provided just by whatever happens to attach to any zooplankton that is fed? Or might it attach to something like Two Little Fishies Marine Snow?

Well, sort of. They showed that Dendronephthya do capture a large amount of phytoplankton, not that all of their nutrients come from green phytoplankton. It's obvious that if that were true everyone trying would have success. Phytoplankton has a lot more in it than the couple species we usually try to feed. In later studies they actually break down what they mean by "phytoplankton" and more species that are captured. Which is when I started testing out the Diatom species I mentioned above with many species of suspension feeding invertebrates. Although they capture a large amount of those few phytoplankton species, bivalve larvae, copepod nauplii etc. along with the other less captured phytoplankton species account for more of their needs than green phytoplankton species do.

Also you're correct that too much food can harm them. It takes a bit of math to work out food amounts that need to be added throughout the day, but it's necessary. They need a consistent level of food in the water column at the correct particle density in the correct flow to even feed properly. Every polyp needs to be able to capture several hundred food particles per polyp per day in order to survive.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Looking at photos of dendro's, some species, live alone by mangroves or with sponges, tunicates, etc... no acros, and/or other corals.
What i recieved, i need to ask divers. See if they remember what other creaturez around them.


Thanks everyone for info. Lot to take in

 

[biophilia]

Well, sort of. They showed that Dendronephthya do capture a large amount of phytoplankton, not that all of their nutrients come from green phytoplankton. It's obvious that if that were true everyone trying would have success. Phytoplankton has a lot more in it than the couple species we usually try to feed. In later studies they actually break down what they mean by "phytoplankton" and more species that are captured. Which is when I started testing out the Diatom species I mentioned above with many species of suspension feeding invertebrates. Although they capture a large amount of those few phytoplankton species, bivalve larvae, copepod nauplii etc. along with the other less captured phytoplankton species account for more of their needs than green phytoplankton species do.

Also you're correct that too much food can harm them. It takes a bit of math to work out food amounts that need to be added throughout the day, but it's necessary. They need a consistent level of food in the water column at the correct particle density in the correct flow to even feed properly. Every polyp needs to be able to capture several hundred food particles per polyp per day in order to survive.

Thanks for the clarification. Great information.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Another thing I wonder: maybe it's not that consuming bacterioplankton as a carbon source is in itself crucial, but rather that a continued input of some variety of bacteria is necessary to maintain a healthy microbiome within these corals. Maybe without it their microbiome changes in such a way as to negatively alter their nutrient metabolism or some other internal process?

A man, i only know thru emails, lives at the Red Sea, can keep indefinetly, and grow dendronephthya corals. With only grind up whole shrimp and water from Red Sea. Makes sense. These corals gotta be omnivores, i think;Nailbiting

 

[AcroNem]

A man, i only know thru emails, lives at the Red Sea, can keep indefinetly, and grow dendronephthya corals. With only grind up whole shrimp and water from Red Sea. Makes sense. These corals a omnivores, i think;Nailbiting

In his case, those corals are getting very little from the shrimp, and everything else they do need from the water he's using straight from the ocean. And yes you're correct they are omnivores, technically. It wasn't until "recently" that new studies started showing just how much herbivory there is across coral species.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

So, what's different , this time?
1. Not trying to include Hiatt filtration, after receiving dendronephthya
2. Adjust chiller to 80° from 77, I think, didn't help
3. Kept moving corals to a better location
4 heavy feeding, too heavy
5 fighting ammonia NH3 while trying to raise Dendronephthya
Forgot SG way off

Now?
1 Set up Hiatt filtration, way before corals arrived, helped control NH3
2. No relocating corals, this time
3 Keeping stinking paws,out of DT
4 Keep chiller at a constant 73°
5 Continue using wet/dry filtration
6. Food still same reciepe, less feeding
7. DIY saltilinity doser, keeps SG at constant 1.025

What I would plan different?
Starting to plan , using RODI water, & well water after its filtered thoroughly, looking for filter product, have one in mind