Diagnosis and Treatment Requested

[dsinsocal]

Backstory (maybe it's relevant, maybe it isn't. I dunno):

I had a coral crash in my mixed reef tank (75 gallon) about 4 years ago and ever since then I just had a few fish in the tank. I wouldn't say the tank was neglected, but outside of feeding, top-offs and occasional glass cleanings, the tank was status quo for 4 years. I had a Saddleback Clown, Flame Hawkfish and a Pink-Streaked Wrasse -- all of which I had for about 8 years -- and all of them just chilled for the past 4 years without any problems.

About 2 months ago I decided I was ready rebuild my mixed reef tank. I probably (stupidly) got carried away and added too much too fast, over about a 6 week period, which I believe stressed the Clown out tremendously. I also added a BTA to finally give the clown something to host in. A few weeks ago I noticed that my clown was looking a little "hazy", but ChatGPT assured me that it was likely just the results of recent stress combined with her "testing" the anemone.

Around the same time, I noticed that a newly added Neon Cleaner Goby became heavily infected with something that clearly looked like Ich (large with spots -- not a a haze). Ironic, I know... so I immediately put him in a 10 gallon and treated with copper. He was extremely lumpy, like a really bad case of fish acne. He's been in there a couple weeks now and seems to be cleared up.

A few nights ago I was checking on my tank in the middle of the night (a standard practice for me, to see what night-dwellers might be out) and I noticed the clown looked like night of the living dead: very pale and extremely blotchy. He was dead by morning. The corpse looked slimy and discolored, not lumpy or spotted. I suspected Brook, but I honestly don't know much about these things.

Now, I notice my Angels are starting to get that hazy look to them as well (Flame Angel and Coral Beauty). In zoomed photos, they appear to be dots, but the fins/tail are also starting to get ragged looking too. I managed to get a few decent pics, I think.

I have no idea how to accurately identify this stuff, or whether their might be multiple ailments at play. My eyes are considerably worse than they used to be, so I'm sure I'm not seeing the fish with enough detail to make a determination. Is this just good old fashioned Ich? Brook? I know that I can't afford to just guess, because each ailment requires a completely different treatment.

The more I read about this stuff, the more confused and panicked I get about it. And then I'm reading other threads from experts saying they don't quarantine, dip, medicate or treat their fish at all.... that it actually makes them more susceptible to infection. I genuinely don't know what I should do. The more I read, the more confused I get about the whole thing.

Half the recommended treatments are a pain in the butt to find, and most come with a long delivery time, so even if I buy now they won't arrive for another week -- which will likely be too late. And we're in the midst of a snow lockdown, where all the LFS are closed at least until Tuesday now.

I do have a 10 gallon copper tank running, and I just set up my old 29 gallon this weekend because I was thinking of treating all my fish and letting my DT go fallow for a few months. But that tank isn't cycled yet and I can't find any fast-cycling stuff locally (BioSpira, Brightwell's Microbacter or Fritz Turbo Start).

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Sharkbait19]

Sorry this is happening.
Videos linked through YouTube are helpful to assess respiration rate and behavior, but from the pictures I would say that looks like ich. It’s safe to assume all exposed fish are infected and therefore will all need to be treated.
The standard recommendation is to quarantine and treat all fish with copper (coppersafe at 2.25 ppm being ideal) for 30 days and to leave the display tank fishless for 60 days.
Hyposalinity is also an option if you can’t get meds, but would still need to be done in qt.
To help cycle a qt you can take media from the dt filter and add it into the qt. Any parasites living in the media will be killed during treatment anyway.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Backstory (maybe it's relevant, maybe it isn't. I dunno):

I had a coral crash in my mixed reef tank (75 gallon) about 4 years ago and ever since then I just had a few fish in the tank. I wouldn't say the tank was neglected, but outside of feeding, top-offs and occasional glass cleanings, the tank was status quo for 4 years. I had a Saddleback Clown, Flame Hawkfish and a Pink-Streaked Wrasse -- all of which I had for about 8 years -- and all of them just chilled for the past 4 years without any problems.

About 2 months ago I decided I was ready rebuild my mixed reef tank. I probably (stupidly) got carried away and added too much too fast, over about a 6 week period, which I believe stressed the Clown out tremendously. I also added a BTA to finally give the clown something to host in. A few weeks ago I noticed that my clown was looking a little "hazy", but ChatGPT assured me that it was likely just the results of recent stress combined with her "testing" the anemone.

Around the same time, I noticed that a newly added Neon Cleaner Goby became heavily infected with something that clearly looked like Ich (large with spots -- not a a haze). Ironic, I know... so I immediately put him in a 10 gallon and treated with copper. He was extremely lumpy, like a really bad case of fish acne. He's been in there a couple weeks now and seems to be cleared up.

A few nights ago I was checking on my tank in the middle of the night (a standard practice for me, to see what night-dwellers might be out) and I noticed the clown looked like night of the living dead: very pale and extremely blotchy. He was dead by morning. The corpse looked slimy and discolored, not lumpy or spotted. I suspected Brook, but I honestly don't know much about these things.

Now, I notice my Angels are starting to get that hazy look to them as well (Flame Angel and Coral Beauty). In zoomed photos, they appear to be dots, but the fins/tail are also starting to get ragged looking too. I managed to get a few decent pics, I think.

I have no idea how to accurately identify this stuff, or whether their might be multiple ailments at play. My eyes are considerably worse than they used to be, so I'm sure I'm not seeing the fish with enough detail to make a determination. Is this just good old fashioned Ich? Brook? I know that I can't afford to just guess, because each ailment requires a completely different treatment.

The more I read about this stuff, the more confused and panicked I get about it. And then I'm reading other threads from experts saying they don't quarantine, dip, medicate or treat their fish at all.... that it actually makes them more susceptible to infection. I genuinely don't know what I should do. The more I read, the more confused I get about the whole thing.

Half the recommended treatments are a pain in the butt to find, and most come with a long delivery time, so even if I buy now they won't arrive for another week -- which will likely be too late. And we're in the midst of a snow lockdown, where all the LFS are closed at least until Tuesday now.

I do have a 10 gallon copper tank running, and I just set up my old 29 gallon this weekend because I was thinking of treating all my fish and letting my DT go fallow for a few months. But that tank isn't cycled yet and I can't find any fast-cycling stuff locally (BioSpira, Brightwell's Microbacter or Fritz Turbo Start).

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

This is Ich and You will need to place fish in Quarantine tank and treat with Coppersafe or Copper Power at therapeutic level 2.25 for a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored with a Hanna Brand copper test kit- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone. All other fish in with it should also be removed as they have also been exposed to the parasites and placed in quarantine tank.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off.
A quarantine tank can be as simple as a tank from a second hand store, a Rubbermaid type tub or a starter kit from Walmart which most of the needed essentials.

 

[dsinsocal]

Can there be two issues at once? All of my fish (in the DT, and the goby who has been in copper for 2 weeks) have started doing a lot of "eat/spit" behavior of food for the past week. It started when I switched from brine to mysis -- but I just attributed it to the much larger pieces -- but it has gotten pretty bad the past few days, and it has now extended to even the regular flake that they've been eating happily forever.

They rush to the top of the tank at feeding time, like usual, and they aggressively chase down the food, but then immediately spit it. Then they just start looking at the food and rejecting it -- eating only selected, smaller pieces.

Doesn't this indicate a problem besides ich? As I said, even the fish that has been in copper the past couple of weeks and appears clean now is doing it. He should be clear (or at least, significantly better) of ich or flukes by now. Could there also be a brook outbreak taking place and irritating the gills/throat at the same time?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Can there be two issues at once? All of my fish (in the DT, and the goby who has been in copper for 2 weeks) have started doing a lot of "eat/spit" behavior of food for the past week. It started when I switched from brine to mysis -- but I just attributed it to the much larger pieces -- but it has gotten pretty bad the past few days, and it has now extended to even the regular flake that they've been eating happily forever.

They rush to the top of the tank at feeding time, like usual, and they aggressively chase down the food, but then immediately spit it. Then they just start looking at the food and rejecting it -- eating only selected, smaller pieces.

Doesn't this indicate a problem besides ich? As I said, even the fish that has been in copper the past couple of weeks and appears clean now is doing it. He should be clear (or at least, significantly better) of ich or flukes by now. Could there also be a brook outbreak taking place and irritating the gills/throat at the same time?

The neon goby sounds like it was "patient zero" here, that's how they show ich - larger spots than other fish.

When the other fish have had ich for awhile, it begins to look different. I think that's what you are dealing with. It is possible though, that the fish have multiple issues at once. If you post a clear video, I can possibly rule that out.

The taking in food and spitting it out is odd. Can you offer smaller food items for the time being?

 

[dsinsocal]

The neon goby sounds like it was "patient zero" here, that's how they show ich - larger spots than other fish.

When the other fish have had ich for awhile, it begins to look different. I think that's what you are dealing with. It is possible though, that the fish have multiple issues at once. If you post a clear video, I can possibly rule that out.

The taking in food and spitting it out is odd. Can you offer smaller food items for the time being?

I chopped up the mysis last night into incredibly small pieces and it didn't seem to help.

I didn't see hardly any spitting at breakfast this morning though. Straight flake. I'll keep monitoring.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I chopped up the mysis last night into incredibly small pieces and it didn't seem to help.

I didn't see hardly any spitting at breakfast this morning though. Straight flake. I'll keep monitoring.

It’s probably though, that you’re going to need to treat these fish…..

 

[dsinsocal]

It’s probably though, that you’re going to need to treat these fish…..

That seems like a foregone conclusion to me too. I just noticed the flame angel with a long white string of poop. What does that indicate? Do I need to start treating Metroplex internally too?

 

[Sharkbait19]

Mysis can cause fish to have white poop - if the angel still has its appetite I wouldn’t be too stressed about parasites.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

That seems like a foregone conclusion to me too. I just noticed the flame angel with a long white string of poop. What does that indicate? Do I need to start treating Metroplex internally too?

Mucus feces can have a lot of causes, so serious, some not, but difficult to diagnose.
Is the angel still eating well?

 

[dsinsocal]

Mucus feces can have a lot of causes, so serious, some not, but difficult to diagnose.
Is the angel still eating well?

Still seems to have a good appetite (ie. racing to the surface at feeding time, and chasing down food when it hits the water), even if he's rejecting a lot of the pieces.

His overall behavior has changed though. Instead of constantly cruising the rockwork in his own little world, picking at everything in site, he's far more subdued and spending a lot of time just hanging out in the shade under a large birds nest.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Still seems to have a good appetite (ie. racing to the surface at feeding time, and chasing down food when it hits the water), even if he's rejecting a lot of the pieces.

His overall behavior has changed though. Instead of constantly cruising the rockwork in his own little world, picking at everything in site, he's far more subdued and spending a lot of time just hanging out in the shade under a large birds nest.

The rejecting food can be an issue; wrong type of food, too large, but also spitting food out can be a general symptom of internal issues.

Metronidazole in food is tricky - it needs to be dosed at 1% by weight of the food. Too much and it’s bitter and the fish will spit all of it out.