Did I make my wall too tall?

[Robert Vacchiano]

Have been a carpenter for over 40 years and built to many walls and did the same thing some years ago for a 600 gallon tank get a sledge hammer and hit it in .All joist will sag some depending on age of house

 

[Averhoeven]

Thank you all for the replies (never imagined the sheer volume of help) and the tips/suggestions. I will take it all into consideration. Unfortunately I remeasured with my wife's help tonight and we measured 104 1/4 to 104 3/8, so I am off slightly. The engineer I spoke with said that I should oversize by 3/16" to compensate for shrinkage of the wood over time, so I'm really not that far off from that number.
Should I sand it down a bit on top or is 3/8 not that big of a deal? Either way, sounds like I've gotta get a bigger hammer... And a helper that weighs more than 100 lbs.
And no worries, I've taken the wiring and boxes into account. The wires up top are loose because I took them out of their pins to move them around. Unfortunately with all the wiring, ductwork, etc in the area, it's been difficult to find ideal locations for the supporting walls, but I think I've got 2 spots that should work fine. Plus I've reinforced the I beams by gluing and nailing 3/4" plywood inside it.

 

[tigé21v]

Get the top in place where you want it...
Shoot a nail into one of the joist.
place a piece of scrap x on the floor next to wall




Hit 2x4 with 20 LB DEMO HAMMER UNTIL in place.

drill and anchor said wall into place once you have it square and plumb with existing walls..

Nail remaining floor joist above to top plate..
ADD Roll of bridging in center of new wall.. being sure to tie it into the other wall

Put plywood on one side of new wall. Nail or screw every 8 inches .

Also you need to add a roll of bridging to the floor joist all the way across. If you do not when then the weight is pushed down it could could the joist to twist . this can make your wall rack to the direction that joist twist. If you do not want to add bridging inside the joist run a 2x4 from one end to the other attaching to the bottom of each joist..



This should take about 15 minutes..

Now THAT'S my kind of girl!!

 

[PhreeByrd]

Now hold on there, OP. I don't know where you're located, but if you're in the USA, the National Electrical Code (NEC) requires a 36" minimum clear space in front of your electrical panels. That's measured from the face of the panel. From your photos, it appears that the end of your wall will be well within this required clear space, in which case it is clearly a code violation. Not that any official is going to come and break your arm for doing this, but the requirement is there for a good reason, and even the most inexperienced home inspector will spot this issue... causing problems if/when you sell the home.

Is there some reason you're building this short wall rather than just using an adjustable floor jack and a beam? That sure would be a much easier venture, and it's completely removable and adjustable in the future.

 

[Averhoeven]

Now hold on there, OP. I don't know where you're located, but if you're in the USA, the National Electrical Code (NEC) requires a 36" minimum clear space in front of your electrical panels. That's measured from the face of the panel. From your photos, it appears that the end of your wall will be well within this required clear space, in which case it is clearly a code violation. Not that any official is going to come and break your arm for doing this, but the requirement is there for a good reason, and even the most inexperienced home inspector will spot this issue... causing problems if/when you sell the home.

Is there some reason you're building this short wall rather than just using an adjustable floor jack and a beam? That sure would be a much easier venture, and it's completely removable and adjustable in the future.

1) The wall will not be obstructing the ability of the panel doors to be opened, but it will technically be overlying the frame of the box. Is the intention just the opening or the box itself?
2) I was under the impression that floor jacks under the beam would be too temporary of a mechanism and that I should do what I am doing. It would definitely be infinitely easier to place even a number of singular pillar structures given the ductwork, etc overhead. However, I didn't think that was a multiyear solution.

 

[PhreeByrd]

No. As I said previously, the clear space requirement is 36" minimum from the front of the electric panels. That space must be kept clear from floor to ceiling. Just enough space to open the panel doors is not enough.

Floor jacks (adjustable posts) are plenty permanent for providing extra support for a fish tank.

 

[Maggie321]

I used 2 floor jacks and 3 2x6 beams sisterd together. Anchored the jacks to the floor with concrete anchors. It's pretty permanent.

 

[Erica-Renee]

I used 2 floor jacks and 3 2x6 beams sisterd together. Anchored the jacks to the floor with concrete anchors. It's pretty permanent.

This is assuming the Concrete slab is thick enough to hold the weight and has no voids under it at that location... I have busted Floors open using jack post directly onto concrete to raise a sagging beams and Joist. Only to find concrete 1-2 inches thick with voids under them...

A Wall spreads the load over a larger area.. By Building Codes a Structural repair using jack post.. The post must be sitting on a Footing... Rather a Aquarium would punch thru the concrete.. Well. ahh .... Like tossing dice....... especially on newer homes.. They cut corners everywhere they can.

With all of that said. Jack post are prob just fine to add additional support to help stop joist deflection due to long term load....

My Conclusion.. If you can a wall is almost always better .But then again i Like Building Walls.....

 

[Skep18]

+1 bang it in place.

The diagonal of the cross section is always longer than any one side. But it's a house, it'll bang right in.

 

[Mjrdude1]

I'm going to agree with Phreebyrd on this one, you are crowding the panels too much with a permanent wall. Get a 4x6 beam up top and a 4x4 on the floor and a couple screw jacks inset from each end. This will support the entire floor system and your tank, as well as be a temporary/permanent solution that can be easily removed in the event of selling the property.
:)

 

[cablez]

you may be able to jack the floor using a jack, and lolly column slide the wall into place then attatch it. but you will need to slow slow slow release the pressure on the jack and onto the wall

 

[KrisReef]

Hammer!

Its all good when your done beating the devil out of it. Use a spare piece of wood between your work to take the beating.

 

[PhreeByrd]

This is assuming the Concrete slab is thick enough to hold the weight and has no voids under it at that location... I have busted Floors open using jack post directly onto concrete to raise a sagging beams and Joist. Only to find concrete 1-2 inches thick with voids under them...

My house would be for sale the next day if I found something like this. I guess the up side is that you didn't need to cut or break up the floor before digging for a new footing.

A Wall spreads the load over a larger area.. By Building Codes a Structural repair using jack post.. The post must be sitting on a Footing... Rather a Aquarium would punch thru the concrete.. Well. ahh .... Like tossing dice....... especially on newer homes.. They cut corners everywhere they can.

Not sure where you were headed with this, but this is not a structural repair by any definition.
A wall does not necessarily spread the load over a larger area. In fact, the post(s) and beam may be able to spread the load more than a wall could, depending upon obstructions.
Building a wall is a permanent modification and all pertinent building codes apply. Adding a jack post is temporary, does not modify the structure, and building codes do not apply.
Floor slabs should be 4,000 psi concrete. There should be no problem supporting part of the load of an aquarium with one or more jack posts on the floor slab. If there was any concern for the concrete floor, then setting the post on a piece of 2x6 (or wider) at the floor will spread the load at the floor. Note that the OP will not be supporting the full load of the aquarium with this post or wall. At most, he is likely to be supporting 10%-20% of its weight.

With all of that said. Jack post are prob just fine to add additional support to help stop joist deflection due to long term load....

My Conclusion.. If you can a wall is almost always better .But then again i Like Building Walls.....

I disagree that a wall is ever better -- structurally there is no difference; in other regards, I would propose that the post is better, since (1) it's completely removable and (2) it's adjustable. A temporary post does not modify the structure. No footing or foundation is required. And in this case, it will not cause code violations and safety issues at the electric panels.

 

[Erica-Renee]

Ohh ..

the actually electrical code requires a 3 foot working area around the panel .. It does not state 3 feet in front.. The BOX Does not have to be center of the 3 foot wall..

My house would be for sale the next day if I found something like this. I guess the up side is that you didn't need to cut or break up the floor before digging for a new footing.



Not sure where you were headed with this, but this is not a structural repair by any definition.
A wall does not necessarily spread the load over a larger area. In fact, the post(s) and beam may be able to spread the load more than a wall could, depending upon obstructions.
Building a wall is a permanent modification and all pertinent building codes apply. Adding a jack post is temporary, does not modify the structure, and building codes do not apply.
Floor slabs should be 4,000 psi concrete. There should be no problem supporting part of the load of an aquarium with one or more jack posts on the floor slab. If there was any concern for the concrete floor, then setting the post on a piece of 2x6 (or wider) at the floor will spread the load at the floor. Note that the OP will not be supporting the full load of the aquarium with this post or wall. At most, he is likely to be supporting 10%-20% of its weight.



I disagree that a wall is ever better -- structurally there is no difference; in other regards, I would propose that the post is better, since (1) it's completely removable and (2) it's adjustable. A temporary post does not modify the structure. No footing or foundation is required. And in this case, it will not cause code violations and safety issues at the electric panels.

A adjustable jack post puts all of the weight its carrying on a single point.. a Pin and Threads. I know there is a metal plate but i have seen them bend to the point the bold pushes thru the plate. (another whole issue that can happen but does not really apply here.. a 3 feet temp wall carries the load from above across a 3 feet span on the concrete floor.

Again this all goes way beyond what he is supporting..


As far as the electrical code.. 3 feet "working clearance" around a panel is a Code requirement.. But the panel does not have to be center in the space. It can be against a wall. This code was put into the electrical code to make the electrical code more in line with OSHA Safety code for working with Electrical panels then a actual electrical safety code. I had a electrical inspection just two weeks ago where we put a basement wall 3 inches from the side of a panel box.....

Disagreements are fine with me.. I just know what is best for my Customers and what the Local building code enforcement inspectors are looking for,How Products react in the REAL Word from a Life Long Career in The Home Remodeling Industry..

As far as saying every basement floor slab is a min of 4 inches with no voids under is Wishful thinking.

If you do NOT KNOW Exactly what was done before you , You MUST Assume it is NOT up to standards..... This is what keeps me in business Such a sad statement but true beyond belief in the Construction Industry of this Century

 

[PhreeByrd]

NEC 110.26 is very clear. Just Google it.
I've been working with the codes for 35 years. There is no disputing what I stated previously.
The working space must be 30" wide minimum or the width of the panel, whichever is greater. That space does not need to be centered on the panel but it needs to include the whole panel.

Table 110.26(A)(1) is also very clear. 36" minimum clear space in front of the panel.