Dieing bicolor angel

Reef Breeders · Aug 16, 2012

I bought a bicolor angel from a local petstore, not equipped for saltwater fish. I put him in qt, and he was fine. A few weeks later, he got an eye infection. No big deal, it went away a couple weeks ago. This week, both eyes are cloudy, and he has a lesion on his side, a small spot mussing scales. The fish is flashing, scratching, and letting its self go against a powerhead. What can I do? I have a spare 10g to medicate in if needed, I was thinking maybe cupramine?

stunreefer · Aug 16, 2012

Is the fish still in QT, or not? Moving the fish could stress it out to the point that it will just keel over and die. Is it readily accepting prepared foods? You don't want to put a fish in copper, even mild Cupramine, if it's not eating or doesn't have "reserve fat" stored.

Reef Breeders · Aug 17, 2012

It is eating just fine

Reef Breeders · Aug 17, 2012

Yes, it is in qt, I dont move the fish to the dt until they are disease free for several weeks

stunreefer · Aug 17, 2012

Any signs of ick?

Regardless, I would first feed the fish heavily over the next day. Then a freshwater dip that's been brought up to temp and heavily aerated, don't worry about balancing pH. This will allow you to see if the fish has velvet, and/or flukes. Velvet will look like tiny snow flakes, flat worms look like, well, clear flat worms. I would then treat with Prazipro and Cupramine at the same time, it is safe to use these together. Keep feeding throughout, although some fish will stop feeding while on Copper. The other option would be a broad range medication like Seachem Sulfathiazole. This can attack parasitic, bacterial and fungal infections. Without knowing exactly what the issue is, direct antibiotics should be avoided.

Reef Breeders · Aug 17, 2012

No, it is not ich. I will look into velvet, that would likely be worst case. I'll stop by the lfs and pick up some meds. Thanks!

Mike&Terry · Aug 17, 2012

Sounds like flukes and can be treated with Prazipro. We use it as a preventative for all new fish. Two 7 day treatments are recommended. As medications go, it is mild and well-tolerated by fish.

stunreefer · Aug 17, 2012

anemonekeeper said:
No, it is not ich. I will look into velvet, that would likely be worst case. I'll stop by the lfs and pick up some meds. Thanks!

NP. If it is velvet we want to get him in Cupramine a.s.a.p. The FW dip will help you identify velvet, and flukes. It's hard to go wrong IME with the Prazi + Cupramine combo, even for prophylactic treatment. As Mike&Terry mentioned Prazipro (by Hikari) is a great, mild praziquental treatment. You can dip your corals in it too to rid of flat worms.

Reef Breeders · Aug 17, 2012

Thanks for the help, I have been at it for 2 years, but never had a really sick fish, other than ich. I was hoping to transfer some fish from the same qt system to my dt tommorrow, but that is obviously not happening. Should I treat all of my fish, as a preventative? They show no signs of illness. (niger trigger, and hippo tang, both about 2")

Reef Breeders · Aug 17, 2012

Also, how abotu methyl blue in the fw dip?

Reef Breeders · Aug 17, 2012

This is the guide I reffered to: Freshwater Dip Process

stunreefer · Aug 18, 2012

anemonekeeper said:
Should I treat all of my fish, as a preventative? They show no signs of illness. (niger trigger, and hippo tang, both about 2")

Couldn't hurt. Both of those species will be fine in the Cupramine/Prazi combo.

I've never used methylene blue in a FW dip before. I find it interesting in that post they claim it will calm the fish, although they also say it will harm parasites, while it only attacks fungal issues (used commonly by breeders to prevent egg fungus), so I would take that with a grain of salt. I also have never balanced pH; a great reefer that taught me a lot once explained 'why take the time to balance pH, when the point is to shock parasites off of the fish.' I've FW dipped a lot of fish, some very pricey, and never had any issues.

Reef Breeders · Aug 18, 2012

stunreefer said:
Couldn't hurt. Both of those species will be fine in the Cupramine/Prazi combo.

I've never used methylene blue in a FW dip before. I find it interesting in that post they claim it will calm the fish, although they also say it will harm parasites, while it only attacks fungal issues (used commonly by breeders to prevent egg fungus), so I would take that with a grain of salt. I also have never balanced pH; a great reefer that taught me a lot once explained 'why take the time to balance pH, when the point is to shock parasites off of the fish.' I've FW dipped a lot of fish, some very pricey, and never had any issues.

I ordered some methlyene blue, it was only about 5 bucks. I will just do temp matched RO water, and maybe methylene blue. If it is not neccessary, than that is fine. I never dipped my fish, I usually just wait 4 weeks, and if they are not sick, they go in the tank. Since one is sick, I can assume that they are all susceptible, right?

stunreefer · Aug 18, 2012

anemonekeeper said:
Since one is sick, I can assume that they are all susceptible, right?

All fish carry parasites and bacteria (as do humans), but will only begin to negatively effect the fish if they are stressed. Stress causes immune systems to be not as efficient. The other fish would likely be fine if you just kept feeding quality foods and kept water parameters in check, but treating them will not harm them.

Regarding matching pH level in QT to dip/bath, many articles/people suggest that you do, I just never have, and have had no issues doing so.

Reef Breeders · Aug 21, 2012

RIP Bi color angel. He was too weak for the fw dip by the time I got to it, and he died halfway in, right after I made sure he was alive. A ton of flukes came off of him, needless to say it was too late :(. I will fw dip some of the healthy fish before they go to the dt, and in the future before qt.

Poseidon · Aug 21, 2012

It was once explained to me that Meth Blue works like a steroid during freshwater dips, in that it opens blood vessels in the fishes circulatory system and makes it easier for them to "breathe". I am unsure how TRUE this actually is, and the information came from a H U G E wholesaler in LA...