Dino/Diatom thoughts

noobreefer2

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Hello everyone, recently I started to see hair-like film algae appear on my rocks, at first I thought it was diatoms because of the hairiness, I thought that dinos were more snot-like. I went to my LFS and picked up 5 Astrea snails to eat the supposed diatoms (Pic of the film):
IMG_6400.JPG
IMG_6401.JPG
IMG_6403.JPG

I don't know if these are dinos or not, but here is the why it is or isn't:
Why it isn't dinos:
⦁ It is a brown hairy substance, not a snotty bubbly slime like I would see in other images.
⦁ When I put the Astrea snails in, they would make a trail of clean rock.
⦁ It does not go away at night
⦁ I think it is a diatom outbreak because recently I put new refugium sand (not mud) in my fuge, and it may have produced some silicates that fueled a diatom outbreak
Why it is dinos:
⦁ The Astrea snails did not do a lot until a few days ago
⦁ There are a few bubbles on the rock
⦁ My nitrates bottomed out (0-1 ppm)
⦁ When I looked under a microscope I saw this:
IMG-7763.jpg

This picture was taken at 100x zoom
If anyone could have any input on what is going on then please comment.
Some tank info:
My 75-gallon tank has been up for a little over a year now. I started with dry rock (uncured) and went through the normal ugly stage (first diatoms then GHA) but It all cleared up eventually.
My livestock (in order of purchase first to last):
-2x Ocelaris clownfish
-2x Red firefish
-1x Cherub Angelfish
-1x 6-line wrasse
-1x Banggai cardinalfish (I will get another one)
My nutrients have been pretty low (nitrates 0-1 and phosphates are undetectable because of my stupid test kit)
If anyone could ID the dinos/have opinions on this please reply,

Thanks so much.
 

Idoc

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Possibly Chrysophytes....the look like tiny, golden, non-moving circles under lower magnification.
 
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noobreefer2

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Thanks, one of the reasons that they might not be moving is because I went somewhere to look at them under a microscope. If it is Chrysophytes then how would I get rid of them, would I just wait it out?
 

vetteguy53081

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As it appears to be chrysophytes, i recommend going after nutrients (nitrate and phosphate) and manual removal. Have you measured nutrients (phos and nitrate) ? You might also check soluble silicate. Some Chrysophytes use silica to form structures, but I do not know if the type you may have do (or actually, if it is even a Chrysophyte).
Bumping up skimmer and even adding a pouch of chemipure elite will help. Also what will help is:
- Made it a point to change my filter socks more regularly, at least 3 times a week.
- Limit use of flake food, and try to focus on frozen.
- Reduced lighting time
 
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noobreefer2

noobreefer2

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As it appears to be chrysophytes, i recommend going after nutrients (nitrate and phosphate) and manual removal. Have you measured nutrients (phos and nitrate) ? You might also check soluble silicate. Some Chrysophytes use silica to form structures, but I do not know if the type you may have do (or actually, if it is even a Chrysophyte).
Bumping up skimmer and even adding a pouch of chemipure elite will help. Also what will help is:
- Made it a point to change my filter socks more regularly, at least 3 times a week.
- Limit use of flake food, and try to focus on frozen.
- Reduced lighting time
Thanks, my nitrates right now hover around 0-1, and my phosphates are pretty mutch undetectable because of my test kit. I am thinking of ordering a Hanna ULR phosphate checker, also when you say "go after nutrients" do you mean to raise or lower them? I am running carbon and my LFS also recommended Chemi-pure. Sorry, one more question, when people say "skim less" or "skim heavily" what do they mean? Do they mean making the skimmate a denser, browner color? Thanks for the help.
 

vetteguy53081

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Thanks, my nitrates right now hover around 0-1, and my phosphates are pretty mutch undetectable because of my test kit. I am thinking of ordering a Hanna ULR phosphate checker, also when you say "go after nutrients" do you mean to raise or lower them? I am running carbon and my LFS also recommended Chemi-pure. Sorry, one more question, when people say "skim less" or "skim heavily" what do they mean? Do they mean making the skimmate a denser, browner color? Thanks for the help.
use of the skimmer. . . which can remove nutrients. I did not stop my unit during treatment but you can if they are low.
Going after nutrients = assure they are not elevated and adjust accordingly
 

Jen1978

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How's the battle going? I have just now finally got a microscope to properly ID my dino's and am beginning my removal battle. I went from high nutrients to bottomed out so now I'm sturggling to get nitrates up. I bought bottled bacteria today to try to help out until my BRS shipment comes this week. I also ordered more tisbe pods as they are known to eat dinos. Good luck and keep us posted please.
 
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noobreefer2

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How's the battle going? I have just now finally got a microscope to properly ID my dino's and am beginning my removal battle. I went from high nutrients to bottomed out so now I'm sturggling to get nitrates up. I bought bottled bacteria today to try to help out until my BRS shipment comes this week. I also ordered more tisbe pods as they are known to eat dinos. Good luck and keep us posted please.
Hello, thanks for your interest, from what I have gathered, Chrysophytes are a type of diatom, so there is probably an excessive amount of silicates in my water, that came from my new refugium sand that I put in a few months ago. I am trying to elevate my nutrients to not have a dino outbreak in the future. I am dosing ChaetoGro for my refugium and already my chaeto is looking better. I am taking more of a "passive" approach to beating this, I think I will let it take its course, but if it's still here after a few months I think I will take more of an aggressive approach like heavily skimming and Mabey adding chemi pure. Good luck!
 
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Hello everyone, I apologize for the lack of updates. Over the past few months, I have had more and more things come up that I have had to do, My tank has been getting the bad ends of the stick. This algae has gotten much worse and has killed one or more of my corals.
From this:
Chalice coral.jpg
LSCMH-R04-39-190_800x.jpg
To this:
IMG_7093.JPG
IMG_7090.JPG


I understand that this is a part of the hobby, corals will die eventually, and algae outbreaks happen. But I am almost feeling like it is too much to manage, but I don't want to stop because I know that it can get better. I hope altogether that we can solve this algae issue.

The tank has been running for about a year and a half now, the algae started to get worse and worse from my previous post. When I went to my lfs they said that these outbreaks can happen, because of the PH and temperature change.
IMG_7086.JPG

IMG_7088.JPG

Now, let's get to the info. I have been changing the carbon about every 3 weeks, the skimmer is very dark, filter sock twice a week. My cheato has gotten a bit bigger, I also have been dosing cheatogro about once every 2-3 weeks (I don't really use it). My phos and nitrate have been around 0.03 and 2, but when I measured a few days ago po4 was 0.00! I can check again, because it may have been a faulty test. I have been dosing CA and alk weekly. My corals have been discoloring, turning brown, and eventually bleaching. This could be because I lowered the lights, or because of the algae. what do you think?

Here is my list of culprits:
-The temperature In mass is very hot, every time I check the controller, it's one degree above what I set it to (78f), this could be why the corals are having trouble
-Po4 is low? Could it have turned into dinos? It does look stringy with bubbles
-I was gone for the past month, and the sitter accidentally only fed frozen brine instead of brine and Mysis
-Not enough water changes? I have been doing 10-gallon water changes twice a week, I used to vacuum the sand every time, but now I have a demand goby and I just suck the water and some algae.

I hope that this helps, If you have any thoughts/questions/comments please tell me. I hope that we can solve this.
I would like to thank everyone for all the help they have given me over my reef-keeping time.
 
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noobreefer2

noobreefer2

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Yes. Something that will do at least 400X. Does sound like dinos with no phosphate. Is this with a Hanna ULR? I would be dosing phosphates to keep the coral alive.
Thanks for the reply, I can get a pic at that magnification. I do use the Hanna ULR, at first I used the salifert which was garbage. I may check again to make sure though.
 
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noobreefer2

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Hey everyone, the algae situation has not been the best, and I am still trying to get an id on it, but I think I'm going to order some supplies tonight, does anyone have any ideas on what I should get?

I have been raising nutrients, and phosphate is at 0.03 now (Hanna ulr), and I need to get a new nitrate test kit, but here was the next few steps I was thinking of taking:

1. Manually remove all possible algae/diatoms/dinos (cycle into filter sock, don't change the water)
2. Feed fish and dose phytoplankton
3. 1-2 day blackout (possibly add some beneficial bacteria or algae fighting?"

Notes:
-I have not done a water change in about 6 weeks to raise nutrients
-Salinity is about 1.024 (kind of low)
-The algae has taken over some of the corals and looks different now :(:

I love this hobby, but I have had so many other things I have been doing, In the next few weeks It should get better, but It is still frustrating to me that I have this when my tank is almost 2 years old. This is not to say that it was not my fault, I did many things wrong, and that may have boosted this algae. I hope that I can resolve this, I understand that it may take time, but I would like to have a tank that I don't feel so sorry for.
IMG_7151.JPG

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I also wanted to say how helpful Reef2Reef has been over these past few years, everyone is extremely helpful, and answeres seriously when I had some dumb scenarios or questions.

I will try to get that Id, and please tell me about questions, comments, or suggestions.

Thank you all for your help.
 

ScottB

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I think @Idoc is correct after seeing the micro image. Also the thickness of the strands leans away from dinos. This is chrysophytes (some call it symbiodinium or golden algae).

Can't believe I am saying this but I fought this with Vibrant as did a few others. Just do the min recommended dose as your biome is in a somewhat fragile place. I have serious questions about what is actually in the product, but for this purpose and dosed with caution, I would recommend it.

Also: manual removal with some caution. Don't just blast it all off and leave it in the tank. I lost fish this way more than once. Quick death. Syphon it out into a sock in your sump and run some carbon.

This bare rock was covered in the stuff a month or so ago.

IMG-5498.JPG
 

ScottB

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I will try to get that Id, and please tell me about questions, comments, or suggestions.

Thank you all for your help.
Also, if you could add into this thread whether or not Vibrant worked for you, that would be great. Also, add a tag to your dino-diatom thread "chrysophytes" so others may find it.
 
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noobreefer2

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I think @Idoc is correct after seeing the micro image. Also the thickness of the strands leans away from dinos. This is chrysophytes (some call it symbiodinium or golden algae).

Can't believe I am saying this but I fought this with Vibrant as did a few others. Just do the min recommended dose as your biome is in a somewhat fragile place. I have serious questions about what is actually in the product, but for this purpose and dosed with caution, I would recommend it.

Also: manual removal with some caution. Don't just blast it all off and leave it in the tank. I lost fish this way more than once. Quick death. Syphon it out into a sock in your sump and run some carbon.

This bare rock was covered in the stuff a month or so ago.

IMG-5498.JPG
Great! I think that I have heard of vibrant treating for chrysophytes as well. Also, that's what I meant when I said manual removal, I'll swap my carbon out as well. I do have chaetomorpha in my sump, that could suffer from Vibrant, but I think I might be willing to suck that up if this would be a good option. Thank you!
 

ScottB

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Great! I think that I have heard of vibrant treating for chrysophytes as well. Also, that's what I meant when I said manual removal, I'll swap my carbon out as well. I do have chaetomorpha in my sump, that could suffer from Vibrant, but I think I might be willing to suck that up if this would be a good option. Thank you!
You could move the chaeto to a bucket with tank water and it will survive for weeks in just normal daylight. With an airstone even longer.

Do the minimum dose on Vibrant and don't try to speed things. IMO, it should be labeled "reef safe with caution". It is effective at things, but you don't want to know what is in the stuff. If you do want to know, and enjoy nerding out with scientific process search the forum for a thread titled "My speculation: Vibrant"

Lastly, failed to link my thread on chrysophytes/symbiodinium

 
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noobreefer2

noobreefer2

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Awesome, thanks, I looked over your thread, I think I will remove as much as possible (into filter sock in sump), blackout, and minimum dose of vibrant. Ill put the cheato in a bucket with a airstone and some cheatogrow. I have also noticed that my refugium is completely clean of any algae except the cheato, I think this is because of the lighting and the pods that have exploded in population, anyone got other thoughts?

To all new viewers of the thread, to those who have used vibrant, as ScottB previously said, what were your findings when you used it?
-What algae were/are you fighting?
-How much did/are you dose/dosing?
-What was/is your tanks livestock or bioload?
-Were/are you dosing anything else?
-What was the result?

Thanks for your help.
 

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