Dino Outbreak .. Why has it become so common?

[eskymick]

I’ve been keeping marine tanks for the best part of 35 years. I started with FO tanks and eventually migrated to SPS dominated reefs (about 15 years ago).

Just recently, I decided to start a nano reef from scratch … meaning starting a tank with all dry rock and cycling the old-fashioned way.

To my horror, I see that some of the largest and oldest threads on R2R are all about long-term dino outbreaks. In all the years I’ve had marine tanks, I’ve never had even a small outbreak of dinos, nor have any of my aquarist friends. I’ve not even seen a tank with a dino infestation. I’ve seen plenty of tanks with GHA and other algae problems, but never one with dinos.

That brings the question to my mind … What has changed in the hobby that seems to make this plague so prevalent? How has the husbandry changed so that it now seems almost inevitable that one will experience some sort of dino outbreak?

“Back in the day”, we had FO tanks that were started with an aragonite “sand” bed and a décor of dead, bleached coral skeletons. Many of my first FO tanks didn’t even have a skimmer. Not once did I have an outbreak of anything other than some turf algae. And as I mentioned, that seems to be the same experience with everyone I knew in the hobby.

As a progressed to a full reef, I still never had an infestation worse than a tuft of GHA here and there or a small patch of red cyano. There again, my fellow hobbyists experienced pretty much the same. It came to the point where it seemed relatively easy to maintain a SPS dominated reef. Granted, we had skimmers, lots of flow, and often times a chaeto fuge and/or a small GFO reactor, but no additional chemicals other than the two-part dosing.

Unless the plague is less common than it seems by the number of posts in the forums, it seems something has changed in accepted husbandry making the modern reef system more prone to a dino infestation.

Does anyone have any ideas or input to this observation? Agree? Disagree? Is it not as common as it seems?

 

[jsvand5]

I think the biggest factor is that so many people start their tanks with dry rock now. I’ve never had it before in my life until I recently set up a 210g with all dry rock. Mine seems to be about 95% gone now though. Not sure if it was a coincidence or not and they were just starting to die out on their own, but Dino-X really seemed to work for me.

I think back in the dead coral skeleton days the dinos just never got introduced because everything added to the tanks was basically sterile aside from the fish. Now we start with dead rock and all it takes is a frag plug to introduce it while there is no other type of algae on the rocks to outcompete it.

 

[BRANDON84]

Two possible contributing factors I've seen thrown about are the usage of chemical nutrient export solutions such as GFO/NoPOX and new lighting solutions such as LED which may emit spectrums that encourage dino growth.

I haven't seen any real evidence to back either claim up, however there is quite a bit of anecdotal evidence in the forums that dinos appear when nutrients go to 0.

I believe my own situation was caused by cavalier usage of GFO in a FOWLR - I didn't worry because the only warnings for overdose I saw related to coral issues, since I had no corals at the time I didn't care - big mistake there.

 

[OhDumb]

My opinion, no competition. Dry rock and ULNS typically promote Dinos. If you go through the typical cycle with LR you'll have lots of pods and algae out competing it.

 

[TexasTodd]

Dry rock and (personal opinion!) I think LED's have something to do with it. No proof on LED's but I've had seven reef tanks and only problems with one, the one with only LED lighting. And, several friends all with a couple of decades keeping reefs thinking the same....

 

[hart24601]

I suspect it’s linked to how easy it is now to drive phosphate and nitrate to 0. It seems like 80% of Dino threads P and N are 0. Not all, I am having an outbreak with 0.07 po4 and 10 nitrate but it’s not typical. And my rocks were from lfs wet LR in a circulated tub running for years. However my initial outbreak a year ago was 0, 0 p/n.

 

[McFly]

Lots of us are probably trying to keep our tanks too clean which leads to dinos. If I let my nitrates and phosphates hit undetectable levels, Dinos appear soon after.

We have such fantastic export methods available these days, it's easy to over do it. I feel dry rock contributes since it generally takes about 2 years to fully cycle and go through the algae phases. During the algae phases we try to export even more, which contributes to too low nutrient levels and the dreaded dinos.

 

[hart24601]

Dry rock and (personal opinion!) I think LED's have something to do with it. No proof on LED's but I've had seven reef tanks and only problems with one, the one with only LED lighting. And, several friends all with a couple of decades keeping reefs thinking the same....

I personally think that is because 95% of new tanks are LED so it would follow that of new tanks with dinos 95% of them would be LED.

 

[eskymick]

I often wonder if having a sand bed contributes to the probability of having an outbreak. It seems that nearly all of the chronically infected reefs have a sand bed. Is that a fair observation?

 

[Waynerock]

I cast my vote for the lack of live rock users. Always used LED and always used cures live rock. No Dino’s since I started reefing in 2001. I take that back I switched to LED in 04/05

 

[TexasTodd]

I personally think that is because 95% of new tanks are LED so it would follow that of new tanks with dinos 95% of them would be LED.

Except there never used to be giant threads on this topic like there is now. But, lower use of dry then. I've used a combo (live/dry rock) before and not had issues. Cyano before but not Dinos Diatoms.

 

[Burrito]

equipment is too good at export now, like mentioned before very easy to get to zero, thats how i had my outbreak. i have to be conscious to keep things "dirty" now

 

[Velcro]

Willing to bet that LED use has nothing to do with it.

 

[eskymick]

After reviewing the responses received so far, I’ve formulated the following plan for the PREVENTION of dinos in this new nano reef:

1. After originally deciding to use ONLY dry reef rock, I’ve decided to accept the offer of a friend to mix in about 15 pounds of VERY mature live rock from his reef. This would amount to about 1/3 of the volume of rock in this 25 gallon lagoon reef build.
2. In reading some other threads, it strikes me as wise to perhaps dose MicrBacter7 during the initial months of this set-up.
3. Instead of chasing zeroes during the “uglies” stage, I’ll simply build a relatively large cleaning crew to keep things under control.
4. For the sake of superstition (and the fact that I love MH lighting), I’ll stick to the tried and true LumenBright fixture with 250w 14k Phoenix lamp
5. Leave the bottom bare.
6. I’ll do weekly 15% water changes, but refrain from adding a skimmer until some later date of maturity.

MAYBE: Add a collection of pods and phyto to the system

What have I missed?

 

[hart24601]

Seems reasonable. I would make an effort to keep above 0 N and P dosing if needed and keep an open mind about adding UV if needed down the road. It's been quite effective for me.

And I wouldn't own a reef tank if I had to go back to MH, but that's just me! Haha!

 

[Waynerock]

After reviewing the responses received so far, I’ve formulated the following plan for the PREVENTION of dinos in this new nano reef:

1. After originally deciding to use ONLY dry reef rock, I’ve decided to accept the offer of a friend to mix in about 15 pounds of VERY mature live rock from his reef. This would amount to about 1/3 of the volume of rock in this 25 gallon lagoon reef build.
2. In reading some other threads, it strikes me as wise to perhaps dose MicrBacter7 during the initial months of this set-up.
3. Instead of chasing zeroes during the “uglies” stage, I’ll simply build a relatively large cleaning crew to keep things under control.
4. For the sake of superstition (and the fact that I love MH lighting), I’ll stick to the tried and true LumenBright fixture with 250w 14k Phoenix lamp
5. Leave the bottom bare.
6. I’ll do weekly 15% water changes, but refrain from adding a skimmer until some later date of maturity.

MAYBE: Add a collection of pods and phyto to the system

What have I missed?

Sounds good to me. Using at least some live rock will be key I think. It’s funny out of the 5 tanks I have had the harder the ugly’s hit and the less I did to correct that and let it burn it’s self out naturally the better my tanks looked down the road. Just don’t look at it for a couple months and let it do it’s thing(says the guy with zero patience)!

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I belive that “back in the day” the dry rock was harvested and not mined. So you got Po4 and cystic critters (like diatoms) and other stuff. Plus organics. Not it’s mostly mined rock.
Phosphate block (Po4 0 killing good bacteria)is generally the problem now.
So you now have zero biodiversity (for allepothy and competition) and zero nutrients so organisms That can feed on a mulititude of organic and inorganic phosphate in different ratios along with an easy access to unlimited nitrogen source naturally bloom and continue to tap resources to maintain their hold on the biosphere cyano dino and chrystophytes all do this as well as bryopsis and a few other rooting algaes.
Not all dino operate in this way but no3 seems to be the genral culprit (or Ammonia and excess dissolved organics captured to rot actually).

Kinda funny that it turns out keeping a “dirty tank” was a wise thing to do after all.

 

[Marcom12]

So, I subscribed to this thread to kinda try to learn. I have a hard time knowing what I have. I heard it's not diatoms because it's not crusty.... Is this correct? If so I must have dinoflagellates?

Or can I have both?

 

[SDK]

After reviewing the responses received so far, I’ve formulated the following plan for the PREVENTION of dinos in this new nano reef:

1. After originally deciding to use ONLY dry reef rock, I’ve decided to accept the offer of a friend to mix in about 15 pounds of VERY mature live rock from his reef. This would amount to about 1/3 of the volume of rock in this 25 gallon lagoon reef build.
2. In reading some other threads, it strikes me as wise to perhaps dose MicrBacter7 during the initial months of this set-up.
3. Instead of chasing zeroes during the “uglies” stage, I’ll simply build a relatively large cleaning crew to keep things under control.
4. For the sake of superstition (and the fact that I love MH lighting), I’ll stick to the tried and true LumenBright fixture with 250w 14k Phoenix lamp
5. Leave the bottom bare.
6. I’ll do weekly 15% water changes, but refrain from adding a skimmer until some later date of maturity.

MAYBE: Add a collection of pods and phyto to the system

What have I missed?

I personally think you are on the right track, and would recommend reading the article Lasse wrote if you have not already.

I was in the same boat a few months ago. Returning, long time reefer who had been out of the game for a while. I drew similar conclusions after doing my homework. I started my Nano in December with real live rock from two sources, a ball of Chaeto from a third, pods and a diverse CUC.

So far no Dino issues, and the briefest brushes of diatoms and green algae came and went in a matter of days. Three months in and I have not even had to scrape the glass yet.

This is obviously, no more definitive than anything else out there. Having said that, I have also seen way too many threads and FB posts showing dead white rock covered in all manner of out of control invasive growth.

For the record, I am using LED lighting.

 

[SDK]

So, I subscribed to this thread to kinda try to learn. I have a hard time knowing what I have. I heard it's not diatoms because it's not crusty.... Is this correct? If so I must have dinoflagellates?

Or can I have both?

Marcom- Post a picture and as much tank info as you can in the nuisance algae section and you will get some help