Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!

[reeferfoxx]

I would think that 2 would be fine, isn't that 250mg per 10 gallons though?
I am sure you can't overdose it

Unfortunately they have designed the instructions for easy dosing without specifics of how much your are actually dosing. It does say there is little concern for overdosing.

 

[twilliard]

Also remember readers of this thread
I am taking an approach to a method that attacks, alters them internally.
Again to note, this will not kill them, that is up to the tank owner to clear them.

 

[twilliard]

What's the verdict about dosing MZ and h2o2? Any concerns about negating effectiveness of either? The staggered dosing sounds like a good idea.

Also - slight detour - I remember reading about h202 affecting bubble tip anemones. Can anyone chime in quickly if there are concerns?

Great work twilliard!

H2o2 has no effect on my BTA

 

[tampasnooker]

H2o2 has no effect on my BTA

Thank you. We are fighting Gambierdiscus in a customer's tank and they have about a dozen huge rbta in a 150 that are hating life right now.

 

[Joshky]

I wish I had known about this when I had dinos, I beat it by buying TBS live rock to bring in more biodiversity to my system, not a cheap endeavor but it worked for me.

 

[twilliard]

Thank you. We are fighting Gambierdiscus in a customer's tank and they have about a dozen huge rbta in a 150 that are hating life right now.

That is an interesting dinoflagellate
I see it too is highly toxic!

 

[twilliard]

How do,I get the pictures into the file? Is there some where on the site I can learn how to do these things? I feel pretty dumb, but at age 74 I'm not tech savvy.

I have sent you a PM you should see it at the top where it says inbox.

 

[StrangeDejavu]

So, correct me if i'm wrong, but the treatment goes something like:

Day 1: 1 - 2 spoons per 10g.
Day 2: 1 - 2 spoons per 10g.
Day 3: 1 - 2 spoons per 10g.
Days 4 - 14: Wait and change mechanical filtration frequently.

My Dad's tank is currently infested with Amphidinium carterae and he's eager to try this method. I'll be curious to see how it responds since Amphidinium primarily sticks to surfaces like the sandbed and rockwork and doesn't get stringy like Ostreopsis. Because of this, he'll probably gravel vac the sand daily through a sump sock and dump the water back in. I'll post an update in a few days.

 

[reeferfoxx]

So, correct me if i'm wrong, but the treatment goes something like:

Day 1: 1 - 2 spoons per 10g.
Day 2: 1 - 2 spoons per 10g.
Day 3: 1 - 2 spoons per 10g.
Days 4 - 14: Wait and change mechanical filtration frequently.

My Dad's tank is currently infested with Amphidinium carterae and he's eager to try this method. I'll be curious to see how it responds since Amphidinium primarily sticks to surfaces like the sandbed and rockwork and doesn't get stringy like Ostreopsis. Because of this, he'll probably gravel vac the sand daily through a sump sock and dump the water back in. I'll post an update in a few days.

Somebody did an experiment. They somehow broke up the dinoflagellate to where the water looked cloudy, in a 8oz glass. They poured that cloudy water through a paper towel to replicate a filter. 24 hours later the dinos regrouped into the same stringy snot they were when they first started the experiment.

 

[StrangeDejavu]

Somebody did an experiment. They somehow broke up the dinoflagellate to where the water looked cloudy, in a 8oz glass. They poured that cloudy water through a paper towel to replicate a filter. 24 hours later the dinos regrouped into the same stringy snot they were when they first started the experiment.

That's how I first ID'd mine when I thought they were diatoms. Once I knew I was definitely dealing with dinos, I bought a microscope and positively ID'd them. He has 25 micron filter socks which should capture quite a bit since A. carterae are about 10 micron wide. Every little bit helps.

 

[jason2459]

Are you the member who uses concave slides? Where did you get them if so?

I have and got from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00O5G5ZCS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[taricha]

So, correct me if i'm wrong, but the treatment goes something like:

Day 1: 1 - 2 spoons per 10g.
Day 2: 1 - 2 spoons per 10g.
Day 3: 1 - 2 spoons per 10g.
Days 4 - 14: Wait and change mechanical filtration frequently.

My Dad's tank is currently infested with Amphidinium carterae and he's eager to try this method. I'll be curious to see how it responds since Amphidinium primarily sticks to surfaces like the sandbed and rockwork and doesn't get stringy like Ostreopsis. Because of this, he'll probably gravel vac the sand daily through a sump sock and dump the water back in. I'll post an update in a few days.

I wouldn't bother with manual removal of the dinos in your case.
Amphidinium is smallish, low toxicity, and most species of amphidinium that show up in our tanks never leave the sand.
All these things mean that amphidinium is susceptible to grazers like pods and ciliates. If Metronidazole prevents reproduction, they will disappear if you have any tank diversity at all (and the Metronidazole doesn't kill it).

On another note, there is some literature on using oxidizer systems like h2o2 to remove metronidazole, (Not sure how effective) so there could be complications there.

 

[nolaron]

Following

 

[StrangeDejavu]

I wouldn't bother.
Amphidinium is smallish, low toxicity, and most species of amphidinium that show up in our tanks never leave the sand.
All these things mean that amphidinium is susceptible to grazers like pods and ciliates. If Metronidazole prevents reproduction, they will disappear if you have any tank diversity at all (and the Metronidazole doesn't kill it).

Just to be clear, you're saying you wouldn't bother with Metro? Because his tank was a biodiversity field day when he first set it up. Shortly after, dinos moved in and all other life seemed to wither away.

 

[taricha]

Just to be clear, you're saying you wouldn't bother with Metro? Because his tank was a biodiversity field day when he first set it up. Shortly after, dinos moved in and all other life seemed to wither away.

Sorry. I'll edit. If you're sure it's amphidinium, I wouldn't bother with the vacuuming or mechanical removal. Predation/grazing will remove them if metronidazole stops their reproduction.

 

[twilliard]

I have and got from Amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00O5G5ZCS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thank you!

 

[jason2459]

Thank you!

Np, those I use some lens cleaner and wipes on to reuse. Normal slides I just discard. My new "lab" table is almost setup in my new sump room and will resume that our tank's biology up close thread soon.

 

[reeferfoxx]

@twilliard , how long before you noticed a change in treatment?

 

[twilliard]

Np, those I use some lens cleaner and wipes on to reuse. Normal slides I just discard. My new "lab" table is almost setup in my new sump room and will resume that our tank's biology up close thread soon.

Nice I want pictures of your lab setup when done
I hope to start school this fall to get my degree in microbiology

@twilliard , how long before you noticed a change in treatment?

It was at about day 10 that I noticed a huge decrease in reproduction
Still today I see no reproduction in our tank. Just cleaning up what's left.
Also to note that the toxicity has decreased as now our corals in the frag tank are coming back to normal

 

[Heisenberg 78]

I've been dealing with these since October 15, and have come quite familiar with the Dino behaviour, there's a few people mentioning about stirring the sand; I'd totally avoid that..at all costs.

I've found that the tank becomes clear of them (as the photo period closes out).. I'm not sure if these dinos retreat to the sand, only to rise in the morning with the bubbles they create..
If your stirring the sand your releasing them back to the water column only to wreak further havoc.

Another is water changes, its already been mentioned..the trace elements cause rapid growth..

I'm still in the early stages as yet, so I don't wish to curse myself with their return, but I have also tried something new which so far has proved a success.
My technique for a bulk clear out of these pests was done by boiling the water to near boiling point.
To some degree this may sound rediclulous, but in the 9 or so months I've had the dinos for nothing has come close to mass eradication..Evetything I've tried chemical wise has had no bearing on them, if so it was only on a short term basis.

There has been numerous attempts at doing all kind of things to remove and outcompete them, but anyone who's currently struggling to keep up with their vigorous growth should give this a try..

I have an old catering boiler that will readily boil up a good 30 to 40 litres in one go.
After boiling you'll get a horrid scum on the surface, I skimmed as much of this off in a cup.
I'd recommend not breathing the steam in also, it's unknown to me what effects they have on a repiratoty system..

I did this for around a week syphoning the sand direct into bucket, once you've been doing the sand for a week or so, the muck in the sand reduces day by day.

My tank become crystal clear after week 1 & is still nice and clear now..
The Dino population is definately in decline..

Not sure if this is of help, take it as you find it.. If your desperate enough to eradicate them... It's worth a go..