Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!

[taricha]

@mcarroll so i managed to pull these out of a cheap children's microscope on an open slide that is scratched as heck and i apologize in advance for my lame attempt at embedding these photos lol.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/157226770@N03/36237394866/in/dateposted-public/

i have my suspicions that its Amphidinium but could be otherwise.

Close. Prorocentrum dinos.

 

[taricha]

After beating my Dinos (Amph) it seemed I was dealing with a cyano outbreak. Once again the microscope I purchased recently paid for itself again (twice within a week)! I decided to confirm if it was Cyano Spirulina, so I took a sample and placed it under my scope. Right away I saw it was neither but actual Dinos, again! This time red'ish Amph dinos. I did a few to make sure I wasnt missing something. My samples actually showed some of the previous brownish Amph swimming along with new reddish Amph. So I just continued my program of controlling NO3 and PO4 along with biodiversity (pods, fuge) and they seem to be fading back.

Thought I'd share yet another lesson of really knowing what's in your tank!

Any chance of a pic of these red guys? Shouldn't be a color variant of amphidinium - their pigment proteins are pretty much locked down.
I've seen some red Dino-looking things before, but turns out they were imposters. (Cryptomonad, rhodomonas lens or similar)

 

[landlubber]

Close. Prorocentrum dinos.

i have no experience with dinos to this point so i trust your ID over mine
so after dealing with an ugly tank for close to a year now is there a course of action i should follow to rid myself of these little guys?

 

[mcarroll]

Try this link for the photos above: https://flic.kr/ps/3oWhpR

 

[mcarroll]

@landlubber I'd switch threads if I were you:
Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

Start with post #1 and see how that sounds.

 

[landlubber]

@landlubber I'd switch threads if I were you:
Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

Start with post #1 and see how that sounds.

thanks guys. i'll take your advice @mcarroll and start hunting for answers there.

 

[drawman]

Well I just recently finished a four day regimen of bleach dosing. I did about 4.75mL of 6% bleach in 35 gallons of water 2x daily. All of my acros had been decimated by the dinos so sadly I can't really say if they would've made it through this dosing. All frag plugs are covered by very bubbly red cyano which has me nervous. Either it's very active cyano or dinos are cohabiting with them. I believe I will need a scope to confirm. On a positive note, my single remaining hammer has opened to double it's previous size prior to dosing.

 

[RMS18]

i have no experience with dinos to this point so i trust your ID over mine
so after dealing with an ugly tank for close to a year now is there a course of action i should follow to rid myself of these little guys?

Yes do what i just did. Restart the tank. Qt fish toss corals if u have any left. Run gallons of bleach though system for 2 days. Toss sand etc. Just added 2 of my 6 fish back last night.

 

[landlubber]

Yes do what i just did. Restart the tank. Qt fish toss corals if u have any left. Run gallons of bleach though system for 2 days. Toss sand etc. Just added 2 of my 6 fish back last night.

to be honest man i am having luck using a combination of uv and better nutrient control. my water was too clean and the dinos took advantage before the algaes did.
no question that a total reboot will stop the issue but it isn't for me until i lose everything and i'm not anywhere close to that. in this hobby i would prefer to handle problems as the arrive instead of throwing in the towel and not overcoming the issue.

 

[mcarroll]

no question that a total reboot will stop the issue

...and you'll invite the dino's right back into the new tank if the base conditions that were present in the old tank and that allowed the dino's a foothold aren't corrected. A restart, even with gallons of bleach, isn't a total answer either.

(Not saying there are no advantages to restarting though!)

 

[mcarroll]

Well I just recently finished a four day regimen of bleach dosing. I did about 4.75mL of 6% bleach in 35 gallons of water 2x daily. All of my acros had been decimated by the dinos so sadly I can't really say if they would've made it through this dosing. All frag plugs are covered by very bubbly red cyano which has me nervous. Either it's very active cyano or dinos are cohabiting with them. I believe I will need a scope to confirm. On a positive note, my single remaining hammer has opened to double it's previous size prior to dosing.

I don't remember now, are you also managing N and P? (That cyano suggests maybe not.)

 

[RMS18]

...and you'll invite the dino's right back into the new tank if the base conditions that were present in the old tank and that allowed the dino's a foothold aren't corrected. A restart, even with gallons of bleach, isn't a total answer either.

(Not saying there are no advantages to restarting though!)

Ok negative nelly lol. There are more reef keepers with low nutrient systems without dinos than keepers with dinos. I am a firm believer that drastic changes/ constant tinkering is what cause the imbalance and allows dinos to take over. Right before i restarted i went high on nitrates and increased the nutrients and all it did was create more algae. Multiple ways to achieve a goal in this hobby, up to that reefer to find that method. For me back when i kept things simple was when my systems did the best without dinos.

 

[drawman]

I don't remember now, are you also managing N and P? (That cyano suggests maybe not.)

I am. However I was on a very long weekend vacation so I need to get back on track with it. Once I started increasing my PO4 cyano was the first to take hold. I will take cyano ANY DAY over dinos they are comparably easy to deal with. I just question whether dinos are mixed in based on the appearance of the bubbles I am seeing. I badly need a scope!

 

[scardall]

I am. However I was on a very long weekend vacation so I need to get back on track with it. Once I started increasing my PO4 cyano was the first to take hold. I will take cyano ANY DAY over dinos they are comparably easy to deal with. I just question whether dinos are mixed in based on the appearance of the bubbles I am seeing. I badly need a scope!

I have what I believe the cyno I have in these (colors are orange, tan,a weird greenish coloration and real dark reddish purple) PO4 .12ppm NO3 O ppm Question: Did the increase from .08 to .12ppm PO4 brought on the cyno?

 

[drawman]

I have what I believe the cyno I have in these (colors are orange, tan,a weird greenish coloration and real dark reddish purple) PO4 .12ppm NO3 O ppm Question: Did the increase from .08 to .12ppm PO4 brought on the cyno?

It may not be so much the increase in PO4 but the imbalance in nutrients. Your 0ppm NO3 could be driving the cyano to outcompete algae. If you raise NO3 you may likely get better competition but I wouldn't expect the cyano to go away overnight and you may need more aggressive methods to reduce it.

 

[mcarroll]

I just question whether dinos are mixed in based on the appearance of the bubbles I am seeing. I badly need a scope!

Definitely get that scope ($12 – easy peasy!) but you can pretty safely assume they are co-habitating. That seems to be a somewhat common stage for lots of algae and this is one of the main ways that N makes its way back into the ecosystem.

Keep encouraging it!

 

[scardall]

It may not be so much the increase in PO4 but the imbalance in nutrients. Your 0ppm NO3 could be driving the cyano to outcompete algae. If you raise NO3 you may likely get better competition but I wouldn't expect the cyano to go away overnight and you may need more aggressive methods to reduce it.

Sounds great. I have read that sodium or potassium nitrate is used to raise NO3. Their are people that favor S or P . Having difficultly deciding which direction to take and when. What do you suggest?

 

[drawman]

Sounds great. I have read that sodium or potassium nitrate is used to raise NO3. Their are people that favor S or P . Having difficultly deciding which direction to take and when. What do you suggest?

I have personally used sodium nitrate. My rationale is I do not regularly test for potassium and it would take a lot of sodium nitrate to have a deleterious effect in terms of sodium. Also, I felt more at ease using a "lab/reagent/food grade" substance over stump remover (not that you can't find potassium nitrate this way). However, if you are deficient in potassium or want to boost it it's a great way to go and the majority of people I would say use potassium nitrate via stump remover.

Also, I know brightwell makes a nitrate supplement but I don't believe they disclose in what form it is which makes me less inclined to use it.

 

[Piranha_Owns]

Does anyone with Dinos have a UV sterilizer running and it not showing any results, I'm fixing to purchase a very high dollar UV unit to try and battle these dinos

 

[landlubber]

Does anyone with Dinos have a UV sterilizer running and it not showing any results, I'm fixing to purchase a very high dollar UV unit to try and battle these dinos

there is no need to do that unless you were already either planning on adding uv or have a positive ID on which type of dino you're fighting. i like many others here just bought simple jebao uv sterilizers. while a few have reported back with outstanding results i'm an example that didn't have the same luck. i think running the uv for the past 12 days is helping but i just started simply testing and dosing to keep my phosphate and nitrate up a few days ago and that is what i think is making the biggest difference.