Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!

[taricha]

Amazine.. so what kind of dose had that result?
Would you think 125mg per 10 gallons isn't sufficient?

Day 1 normal (1 scoop per 10gal)
Day 2: the super unscientific a pinch of metro into 600ml
Best guess is that day 2 was anywhere from 3 to 10 times the normal dose.
Really I was just trying to get side by side dino cell pics to see what changes in response to metro, and that failed.
At day 4, they looked basically the same.
At day 8, there was nothing to look at.

I dunno if high dose is the answer, but it's possible long treatment is also high dose too...
Are you confident that the company is correct that it degrades after 48 hours? (Researchers have found measurable amounts of it in bodies of water over much longer time period.) Or is it likely that after 10 doses, the equivalent of 7 or 8 or 9 doses are still around in the system. I think it's at least a strong possibility.
I'll run carbon and water change in the metro beaker, then keep it going for a couple more weeks to see if any dinos reappear from cysts I don't recognize.

I'll probably take my healthy ostreopsis and split it into several beakers to do a dose-response test. I'll probably just do a single dose of varying sizes for simplicity sake.

 

[twilliard]

He might be onto something! Btw twilliard my dinos sample should be there today.

It came in!
I will be on it soon

 

[StrangeDejavu]

Hang in there Twilliard, this is the most promising treatment i've seen so far.

 

[domination2580]

It came in!
I will be on it soon

I can't wait to see!

 

[terri_ann]

So I've been following here since day 1. I get confused easily so I want to ensure that I'm on the right track for a system with approximately 55g TWV, using MetroPlex by Seachem.

Dose 2 spoonfuls per 10g. No WC's, no gac & gfo, no carbon dosing, run skimmer but skim dry, dose at night when they are in the water column. Blow off dinos on day 4 and continue to dose through day 10 with no water changes? Use filter socks to catch dinos and clean regularly in hot water. Is this correct? Am I forgetting anything? Possibly run gac after 8hrs (from dosing) until next dose?

Would it be helpful to remove eggcrate and place frags on sandbed?...less stuff for dinos to hold onto? I have other eggcrate that can be used at another time.

 

[twilliard]

So I've been following here since day 1. I get confused easily so I want to ensure that I'm on the right track for a system with approximately 55g TWV, using MetroPlex by Seachem.

Dose 2 spoonfuls per 10g. No WC's, no gac & gfo, no carbon dosing, run skimmer but skim dry, dose at night when they are in the water column. Blow off dinos on day 4 and continue to dose through day 10 with no water changes? Use filter socks to catch dinos and clean regularly in hot water. Is this correct? Am I forgetting anything? Possibly run gac after 8hrs (from dosing) until next dose?

Would it be helpful to remove eggcrate and place frags on sandbed?...less stuff for dinos to hold onto? I have other eggcrate that can be used at another time.

1 spoon is 155mg
You can do that it will be a little over what we are using.
Using carbon is still in the works but I would not use it daily.
Everything else sounds good the egg crate can stay as that won't make any significant outcome if left in.

 

[domination2580]

How's the sample look twilliard?

 

[Russ265]

i promised to list my losses after doing my experiment.

maxima clam
turbo snail
2x emerald crabs
almost all dinos gone. (i see a bubble or two)

clam was most sensitive to the treatment.
i was running carbon, uv, and peroxide at the same time.

didnt want to leave others hanging.

an acknowledgement:
metro could have "possibly" impacted it. i ran uv and peroxide 72 hours before my experiment, so im not convinced it did, but i will throw that out there.

i did not clean my sandbed....

 

[RMS18]

i promised to list my losses after doing my experiment.

maxima clam
turbo snail
2x emerald crabs
almost all dinos gone. (i see a bubble or two)

clam was most sensitive to the treatment.
i was running carbon, uv, and peroxide at the same time.

didnt want to leave others hanging.

an acknowledgement:
metro could have "possibly" impacted it. i ran uv and peroxide 72 hours before my experiment, so im not convinced it did, but i will throw that out there.

i did not clean my sandbed....

The metro is definitely working and doing something. My before and current pictures are day and night.

 

[Russ265]

The metro is definitely working and doing something. My before and current pictures are day and night.

like i said. it is possible metro impacted it. however i am not convinced.

on day 10 i saw no impact on dinos. none.

i hope metro kicks the bucket. and it may very well with a bigger / longer dose. but for me, i had to use peroxide to keep it in check, and uv for added measure.

for all scientific purposes my experience should not be in the metro experiment.

 

[terri_ann]

So just 1 spoonful Big T?

 

[taricha]

i promised to list my losses after doing my experiment.

maxima clam
turbo snail
2x emerald crabs
almost all dinos gone. (i see a bubble or two)

clam was most sensitive to the treatment.
i was running carbon, uv, and peroxide at the same time.

didnt want to leave others hanging.

an acknowledgement:
metro could have "possibly" impacted it. i ran uv and peroxide 72 hours before my experiment, so im not convinced it did, but i will throw that out there.

i did not clean my sandbed....

Is this referring to your use of the algaecide chemical (contained in algaefix)
Or metro.

Just to be clear for everyone, your metro experiment was really metro+peroxide (Not recommended)

 

[Russ265]

Is this referring to your use of the algaecide chemical (contained in algaefix)
Or metro.

Just to be clear for everyone, your metro experiment was really metro+peroxide (Not recommended)

quite right. my metro experiment was counterproductive. i used peroxide because it was immediate. metro seems to take many days.

the losses and sudden turn around i observe to polyoxyethylene dichloride. it was rather immediate. it killed other algae in the tank as well.

i am not 100% because while the dino has taken a 99.9% beating. it still exists

 

[Reefer1978]

Typical blackout for dinos is 3days i believe, which stresses corals. But my question could be, would a shorter less stressfull blackout time work in conjuction with this to maybe reduce the fuel the dinos use maybe making them more susceptible to treatment? Like say 24 or 36hr? I know i am no expert here just curiosity

Not all dynos are photosynthetic. Blackout does not impact all dynos thus, makes them free swimming, but doesn't kill them. O. Ovata, that most if us have in this thread, does not react to 3 day blackout. I tried.

Are you confident that the company is correct that it degrades after 48 hours? (Researchers have found measurable amounts of it in bodies of water over much longer time period.) Or is it likely that after 10 doses, the equivalent of 7 or 8 or 9 doses are still around in the system. I think it's at least a strong possibility.

I read a research paper that talked about Metro half life of 8 hours, not something company labeled on the product. That also seems to coincide with what metro resellers advise as far as dosing, to do it every 48 hours. After 48 hours there's about 1% medication left at that half-life.

Is this referring to your use of the algaecide chemical (contained in algaefix)
Or metro.

Just to be clear for everyone, your metro experiment was really metro+peroxide (Not recommended)

And UV. It's peroxide + UV + metro.

 

[Russ265]

Not all dynos are photosynthetic. Blackout does not impact all dynos thus, makes them free swimming, but doesn't kill them. O. Ovata, that most if us have in this thread, does not react to 3 day blackout. I tried.



I read a research paper that talked about Metro half life of 8 hours, not something company labeled on the product. That also seems to coincide with what metro resellers advise as far as dosing, to do it every 48 hours. After 48 hours there's about 1% medication left at that half-life.



And UV. It's peroxide + UV + metro.

during metro. i did not have uv on. just peroxide. it wasnt until 72 hours after my last metro dose that i employed uv again

for the record. my peroxide doseage is 2ml per hour. 300 gallon system.

 

[Reefer1978]

Here are some samples I took. Not the best quality, camera for the microscope is garbage.

I do have a theory why I am not seeing dead dynos. I catching them with a filter floss pad, and only live moving dynos are sticking to that. My guess is dead ones are going into the filter sock. There are also some little buggers biting dynos, was pretty fun to see. It's the little transparent blob in the third picture, top right. Couldn't get a zoomed in shot, hard to catch.

 

[Reefer1978]

during metro. i did not have uv on. just peroxide. it wasnt untul 72 hours after my last metro dose that i employed uv again

for the record. my peroxide doseage is 2ml per hour. 300 gallon system.

My mistake, I read the previous posts as in UV was running the whole time...

 

[Russ265]

My mistake, I read the previous posts as in UV was running the whole time...

no. the first 24 hours peroxide wasnt even running.

but i saw an increase and im pretty trigger happy.

i employed peroxide as immediate relief while continuing metro.at the 48 hour mark

after day 10 uv came back online.

i used the measures as experience to keep it contained.

i know im a bad test subject, but sometimes you have to intervene

 

[taricha]

I read a research paper that talked about Metro half life of 8 hours, not something company labeled on the product. That also seems to coincide with what metro resellers advise as far as dosing, to do it every 48 hours. After 48 hours there's about 1% medication left at that half-life.

Sure. 8 hours from ingestion till elimination from the body, but in an environmental system...
" The half-life for aerobic biodegradation is 4 to 8 days for olaquindox, 10 to 40 days for tylosine, 14 to 104 days for metronidazole, and 31 to 40 days for oxytetracycline."
From https://books.google.com/books?id=...onidazole half life biodegradability&f=false

"Degradation half-lives for the primary degradation were 3.3--8.1 days for TYL, 5.8--8.8 days for OLA, and 13.1--26.9 days for MET. "
From https://www.researchgate.net/publi...ion_Products_in_Aerobic_Soil-Manure_Slurries

Maybe the 48 hours is close to right. I dunno. Until twilliards mythical metro test kit shows up, it's hard to say for sure.

 

[twilliard]

How's the sample look twilliard?

Well these guys are not easy to get a shot at all!