Dinos / diatoms ID

[ScottB]

With those nutrient numbers I would not suspect dinos but sorry bro/sis, you have some Large Cell Amphidinium. I am sorry because there is not a real solid silver bullet for them. On the bright side they are only ugly and not toxic.

If the tank is less than a year or a little more old, I say let it ride. Just a phase. Search here for link to Amphidinium treatment methods. You have many friends there.

Never seen the spheres before. Shucks, I wanted those bonus points.

 

[bearman88]

Update - I am on day 6 of silica dosing, and I believe I am seeing some progress. The dinos seem to be receding from the sandbed over the past couple days. I have followed the guide posted here. Currently dosing 65 drops a day for my 65g. Here's to hoping this is actual progress! I will eventually siphon out, but I am going to see how far it all goes away naturally first. I will then blackout to begin handling GHA issue.

 

[bearman88]

Silicate levels are still undetectable, maybe 0.03ppm. I'm up to 130 drops per day. Dinos are stagnant now, no worse, no better.

 

[bearman88]

Finally up to barely detectable silica levels on the Salifert test kit. It's crazy how much silica I've dosed and just now getting trace levels. Also I have lost many SPS frags which most of them I'm not surprised, but now a monti cap piece is starting to recede and die. No water changes in 3-4 weeks at this point. All my other levels are in check so not sure why the monti is dying.

 

[bearman88]

@taricha @ScottB

If I am trying the silica dosing method to fight large amphidinium dinos, should I start back water changes, skimmer, etc.? I want to ensure the diatoms have the resources they need to grow to out compete dinos. So far I am not seeing visible diatoms. Another question I have is, would I eventually expect to see the diatoms replace the dinos, visibly? If they become a visible nuisance, how will I combat those? I'm assuming my beneficial bacteria, pods, etc. may hold them back from becoming an issue? aka everything is in a balance?

Current parameters are:

Nitrate 15
Phosphate .10
alk 9.8dkh
calc 450
mag 1520

 

[ScottB]

@taricha @ScottB

If I am trying the silica dosing method to fight large amphidinium dinos, should I start back water changes, skimmer, etc.? I want to ensure the diatoms have the resources they need to grow to out compete dinos. So far I am not seeing visible diatoms. Another question I have is, would I eventually expect to see the diatoms replace the dinos, visibly? If they become a visible nuisance, how will I combat those? I'm assuming my beneficial bacteria, pods, etc. may hold them back from becoming an issue? aka everything is in a balance?

Current parameters are:

Nitrate 15
Phosphate .10
alk 9.8dkh
calc 450
mag 1520

Good nutrient numbers. Keep those levels best you can. A month or so of that and you might see some cyano start competing.

I kept my skimmer going full time; I just ran it dry or let it drip back into the sump. I like the gas exchange it provides.

@taricha can correct me, but you could try a water change and see how the dinos react. My ostreopsis just loved the WCs so I stopped for a good while. It was obvious. I am not sure what they deplete, but once I replaced it they swarmed. LC Amphids could be different.

Diatoms will eventually deplete your silicates (once you stop dosing) and will die back.

 

[bearman88]

Good nutrient numbers. Keep those levels best you can. A month or so of that and you might see some cyano start competing.

I kept my skimmer going full time; I just ran it dry or let it drip back into the sump. I like the gas exchange it provides.

@taricha can correct me, but you could try a water change and see how the dinos react. My ostreopsis just loved the WCs so I stopped for a good while. It was obvious. I am not sure what they deplete, but once I replaced it they swarmed. LC Amphids could be different.

Diatoms will eventually deplete your silicates (once you stop dosing) and will die back.

So the weird thing is after a week of dosing silica, I am still getting barely detectable levels.. like .03-.05ppm.

I'm dosing 10mL daily almost. Does anyone know what is consuming the silica? Should I keep dosing more and more until a visible change occurs?

 

[taricha]

If I am trying the silica dosing method to fight large amphidinium dinos, should I start back water changes, skimmer, etc.? I want to ensure the diatoms have the resources they need to grow to out compete dinos. So far I am not seeing visible diatoms. Another question I have is, would I eventually expect to see the diatoms replace the dinos, visibly? If they become a visible nuisance, how will I combat those?

if there's just no shift in growth for an extended period then doing water change can help as you describe.
sometimes the diatoms stay near invisible. also diatoms are much easier to move up the food chain. diatoms are very rarely a nuisance, they are eaten by many things.

 

[taricha]

So the weird thing is after a week of dosing silica, I am still getting barely detectable levels.. like .03-.05ppm.

I'm dosing 10mL daily almost.

what test kit?

 

[bearman88]

what test kit?

Salifert

 

[ScottB]

So the weird thing is after a week of dosing silica, I am still getting barely detectable levels.. like .03-.05ppm.

I'm dosing 10mL daily almost. Does anyone know what is consuming the silica? Should I keep dosing more and more until a visible change occurs?

I am no expert at silica dosing. But if I were confident in the quality of my test kit and process, yes, I would up the dosing.

 

[taricha]

Salifert

yeah, my (and many other people) salifert kits detected no Si. but my Hanna Low Range Si checker finds Si just fine.
I'd conclude based on what you are dosing (10mL day of I presume spongexcel?) and assuming your tank is a modest size - that you do have Si in the system, and the diatoms are limited by other scarce resources.

You might try a small water change and see how it goes. If things grow (dinos and diatoms) then we are correct about your tank situation - trace element limited.

 

[taricha]

I am no expert at silica dosing. But if I were confident in the quality of my test kit and process, yes, I would up the dosing.

I was keeping a running tally at one point, I lost count around 8 out of 10 reports with salifert Si kit couldn't detect Silica. Some did, but the vast majority of us did not.

 

[ScottB]

I was keeping a running tally at one point, I lost count around 8 out of 10 reports with salifert Si kit couldn't detect Silica. Some did, but the vast majority of us did not.

And thus my hedge on confidence of result. Likely got that from you somewhere along the Way.

 

[bearman88]

And thus my hedge on confidence of result. Likely got that from you somewhere along the Way.

Thank you guys - it has been at least 4 weeks since water change. This weekend I will suck up the dinos from sand and rocks, and continue dosing sponge excel silica. I have a 65g reefer 250, so I'll do a 4g WC and see what happens.

I have noticed that the dinos seem to have stopped growing. For instance, my pistol shrimp digs up sand. Normally that sand would be covered with new dinos within 1 day, but is not any more.

I also ordered some MicroBacteria7 (sp) product, as I read from one of the other amphindium dino success stories. I figure that cannot hurt.

 

[bearman88]

Last night I did a 9g waterchange, sucked out 95% of the dinos from sandbed (used vacuum tube thingie). Removed probably 90% of the rocks. Immediately dosed silica + microbac7 after the water change.

We'll see how much of it comes back tonight and tomorrow. I also removed a good bit of GHA which was taking over some spots.

If it does come back strong, I am going to siphon out (no WC), and do a 3 day blackout with it... may just have to keep siphoning over and over w/ no WC's.

 

[bearman88]

Last night I did a 9g waterchange, sucked out 95% of the dinos from sandbed (used vacuum tube thingie). Removed probably 90% of the rocks.

to clarify, I removed the dinos from 90% of the rocks, not the rocks themselves.

 

[bearman88]

Well they did grow back visibly today on the sand bed. Probably 10% of the sand had it growing on it. Unless this could have been diatoms? More than likely the dinos?

 

[bearman88]

Been dosing 10ML of silica daily for 2-3 weeks now. This morning my silica levels were 0.25. Per the dosing guide I'm following, I should be targeting 2.0-2.5ppm I think. My question is: what could be consuming all this silica? I don't see a visible growth of diatoms. I am going to microscope some sand today to see the ratio of dinos/diatoms. Anyone know what else can consome silica so much? I'll google that also..

 

[stonecoldant316]

Been dosing 10ML of silica daily for 2-3 weeks now. This morning my silica levels were 0.25. Per the dosing guide I'm following, I should be targeting 2.0-2.5ppm I think. My question is: what could be consuming all this silica? I don't see a visible growth of diatoms. I am going to microscope some sand today to see the ratio of dinos/diatoms. Anyone know what else can consome silica so much? I'll google that also..

sponges