Dinos round 2, lasting forever.

[BryanM]

So up front: Nitrates 17, Phosphates .87 - Yes, I am aware. Stopped dosing phos 3 weeks ago, and now it continues to increase.... Anyway....

Dosing H202 24x7 - 20ml
Dosing MicroBacter 7 during the day - 120ml (more than I have read is indicated, trying to outcompete dinos)
Running UV at night
Lowered lights to 40%

Some of these have changed over the last 3 weeks, but essentially this has been the plan. I've had lights as low as 10%, off for one day, ran UV 24x7 for a while, etc.

Almost daily sand siphoning as well.

I'm a bit at my wits end here. I'd welcome any ideas. Is it just simply I need to reduce phos? Will a 2-3 day blackout likely help/fix it?

Thanks in advance.

 

[NKB]

Do a good amount of water change wash your rocks in RODI water and perform a 3 day black out.

 

[Fish Fan]

Don’t wash your rocks in RODI, I’m pretty sure you have TBS live rock, right?

Yes, a blackout can help.

I don’t know for sure, just kind of thinking out loud here, but maybe the hydrogen peroxide is counter effective. It’s indiscriminate and likely impacting the bacteria population at least somewhat. On the one hand you’re dosing the peroxide, which is an oxidizer and a sanitizer. Then on the other hand you’re dosing MicroBacter, which is beneficial bacteria. I think they may be counteracting each other.

The following videos suggests that Dino’s can take over when:

• Your nitrate and phosphate drop very low
• The biome is disturbed (kind of what I was saying above with the peroxide)
• Your system experiences drastic changes

To combat the Dino’s they suggest:

• Add ‘pods
• Diversify the good biome
• Keep your nitrates and phosphate above zero
• Manual removal
• A UV sterilizer (I know you run one, maybe double check the flow is correct for dinos)
• A light blackout

I hope this helps, good luck!

 

[rtparty]

I’m not convinced MB7 actually does anything

Are they sand dwelling dinos? Have you identified them with a microscope?

If sand dwelling, dose silicates to create a diatom bloom.

 

[KGscv]

Try to do a coral snow with microbacter at night.

 

[Lavey29]

Did you ID what type of dinos you have? I'm a.big proponent of PNS probio which is a natural heterotrophic bacteria that eliminates organic waste on your sandbed where dinos thrive.

 

[himynameis]

I have been dealing with sca Dino’s for 6+ months with super elevated nutrients, also dosing nopox. Reduced water change frequency to disturb things less. ICP test will help you understand what is out of balance in the tank, recommend doing that if you haven’t already. Establishing a good biome within the tank is the goal, siphoning the bad probably doesn’t help with keeping the good either.

I started using UV sweeper on the sand with microbe lift dosing and seeing immediate positive results. But it also helps that I got my nutrients generally under control and balanced after icp results. Just my experience, good luck. Keep at it.

 

[Fish Fan]

I believe that Bryan has TBS rock, and I wouldn’t wash that rock in freshwater. I’m pretty sure Bryan knows that too :)

Sorry @NKB , I just know the OP has very expensive live rock :)

 

[BryanM]

Ostreopsis dinos, definitely go away at night.

 

[Fish Fan]

I’m not convinced MB7 actually does anything

Are they sand dwelling dinos? Have you identified them with a microscope?

If sand dwelling, dose silicates to create a diatom bloom.

I don’t get dosing bacteria in an established tank. I think anything that can grow is already growing, and at the limit the tank will support.

That said, I do believe the OP is shooting themselves in the foot by dosing bacteria, and then dosing peroxide. I am not a fan of peroxide in the tank. As a dip, all day long, but in the tank it affects everything, not just what we may hope to target. Just my $0.02 here.

 

[BryanM]

For the record, gulf live rock — but “same but different” :)

@Fish Fan — I take your point on live rock and dosing bacteria. Interesting.

 

[Goaway]

I fought my share of snot. I did the whole balancing act with nitrates and phosphates. I also ran fine filter socks at 15 microns.

It was for a couple of months non stop syphoning out everyday, filter sock change everyday. Less and less showed up.


now a friend on here discovered synthetic salt added fuel to the fire. I would have to ask, but it might be the silicates they feed off of. So, syphoning out the dinos into a fine filter sock and adding back the filtered water was working a lot better than replacing water with reef crystals.

My dinos are gone. And it took my MONTHS.

I hope you win!

 

[Fish Fan]

For the record, gulf live rock — but “same but different” :)

@Fish Fan — I take your point on live rock and dosing bacteria. Interesting.

Gotcha! But yeah, I wouldn’t run Gulf Live Rock’s rocks under freshwater either :)

Again, best of luck here!

 

[fish_collector]

I've been saying for a while now that siphoning them into a ONE micron filter sock and returning the water to the tank DAILY will reduce their numbers by greater amounts every time you do it. Eventually they will all be gone. I also found that leaving a film on the glass, as much as one hates not cleaning the glass, would help to keep them knocked down. Once their levels get really low they will disappear. You gotta stay on top of it though, if you don't siphon daily you will lose the battle. Clean the ONE micron filter sock with hot water and then soak it in a bucket a water with some bleach to kill what it has trapped.

I successfully beat the dinos in my frag tank this way, without a black out or chemicals. I have no idea what type they were.

 

[Lavey29]

Ostreopsis dinos, definitely go away at night.

Ostreopsis dinos don't disappear from the sand at night but they do go into the water column. Did you ID with a microscope?

 

[bubbgee]

I feel you. I was battling Ostreopsis for the past few weeks and finally turned a corner this weekend. My nitrates and phosphates were elevated and what caused my bloom is when I dose acropower for whatever reason the aminos trigger dinos in my tank.

My protocol was dosing peroxide, purple bacteria Microbe-lift special, Microbacter 7, Dr Tim Waste Away, calcium carbonate recipe from SunnyX, Aquaforest Life Source, plankton culture that I already on hand and copepod bottle I bought as well as sponge excel for diatoms. I left my UV 24x7 and I did not turn off the skimmer.

An hour before lights out, I dose either life source (twice a week) or calcium carbonate reef snow (every other day) and aggressively blow on the rocks and plugs that have the dinos so that the skimmer picks those up.

Then following Vetteguy’s protocol, I dose the peroxide at lights out and in the morning, dose all the bacteria I got on hand and sponge excel. It took two weeks and eventually it turned the corner.

I did not do a blackout or dose any phosphates. I just fed fish to raise my po4 to around 0.5 and nitrates to 30ppm. I just added as much competition as possible and diverse as possible.

It’s been successful for me the past four times this has happened the past 8 months. I think the life source adds so much biodiversity that it accelerates the tank’s maturity.

 

[Tangdora]

Coming off a wicked out break out myself. had like 100 % coverage on every rock (1year old dry rock not fully established yet. At this point I would say I’m 95% contained at this point and progressing toward eradication this might be overkill but these were the only steps that seems to be working for me.

1) don’t not clean off rock by brushing only seemed to make it worse for me till I stopped

2) get your phos and nitrate up and stable. I shot for .1 phos and 10ppm nitrate. Bottoming out is was the caused of my issue.

3) 3 day black out to kill a bulk amount.

4) questionable for some but while in black out I did start dosing 3 percent peroxide at the .1 to 10 gallon suggestion. And maintained that dosage for two weeks. I have been halving my dose weekly since and plan to drop down to a similar preventative % mentioned by vetteguy in other thread probably will maintain that for 2-3 month after than test what happens going off it altogether. I personally have seen no impact to coral or fish. trace element may be affect but can’t determine impact at glimpse. And I dose trace from time to time to restore

5) light reduction - Previously I ran lights for almost 16 hours a day. Work from home and hate seeing unlit tank. Schedule was 8 peak hours with 2 hour ramp up and down dropping down to 25% intensity for remainder of evening and night. I now run 6 hour peak with with a 2 hour ramp up and 1 down. Evening are still ran on but at a very low intensity 20 par at surface which is even lower below surface. Read some where that Dino’s have a hard time surviving under that level so I’d image during this time the additional light time isn’t adding to the dino problem.

6) dosed photo feast at max recommended dosage ever day for a week including blackouts period. Once lights were back on i dosed early morning. More as a competition dose as oppose to coral feeding . After week I halved the dosage and have been adding every 3 days. Expect do do some serious glass scrapping

Will note I do also have an under uv sized more for disease then Dino’s that is running 24/7. It may have helped a bit but read uv in general does not do much for the stuff that is clinging to rock work.

 

[bubbgee]

I don’t get dosing bacteria in an established tank. I think anything that can grow is already growing, and at the limit the tank will support.

That said, I do believe the OP is shooting themselves in the foot by dosing bacteria, and then dosing peroxide. I am not a fan of peroxide in the tank. As a dip, all day long, but in the tank it affects everything, not just what we may hope to target. Just my $0.02 here.

The peroxide dosing at night allows you to kill a lot of the dinos as it stays in the water column. The risk here is that you can cause SPS to peel if they get hit with the concentration (I lost a couple of frags this way). The oversized UV will weaken the dinos to a certain extent that they can't compete anymore. Dosing bacteria in the morning will overtake the dinos eventually. My method involves several different bacteria strains and introducing as much biodiversity I can deliver so at least one or two can outcompete the dinos.

 

[Fish Fan]

The peroxide dosing at night allows you to kill a lot of the dinos as it stays in the water column. The risk here is that you can cause SPS to peel if they get hit with the concentration (I lost a couple of frags this way). The oversized UV will weaken the dinos to a certain extent that they can't compete anymore. Dosing bacteria in the morning will overtake the dinos eventually. My method involves several different bacteria strains and introducing as much biodiversity I can deliver so at least one or two can outcompete the dinos.

I like the idea that you’re introducing a larger microbial biome.

You can dose peroxide at night all you want, but it will without hesitation kill the good microbes you’re hoping to cultivate. The microbes are not diurnal, and hydrogen peroxides will kill anything in its path. That’s why it had an adverse effect on your SPS; it’s an indiscriminate oxidizer/sanitizer.

A UV needs to be run at a flow rate that will help with protozoans to be affective here. Running even an oversized UV will not result in dino reduction if the flow is incorrect.

I would stir up the dinos during the daytime, and filter them out with a mechanical filter, then follow advice posted above.

I hope this helps!

 

[bubbgee]

I like the idea that you’re introducing a larger microbial biome.

You can dose peroxide at night all you want, but it will without hesitation kill the good microbes you’re hoping to cultivate. The microbes are not diurnal, and hydrogen peroxides will kill anything in its path. That’s why it had an adverse effect on your SPS; it’s an indiscriminate oxidizer/sanitizer.

A UV needs to be run at a flow rate that will help with protozoans to be affective here. Running even an oversized UV will not result in dino reduction if the flow is incorrect.

I would stir up the dinos during the daytime, and filter them out with a mechanical filter, then follow advice posted above.

I hope this helps!

I did play around with the flow. The faster flow seems to work better than slow in my experience. The timing of dosing peroxide does appear to matter. I just kept dosing bacteria in the morning and killing a lot indiscriminately at night with the peroxide. I just needed to find one strain that can eventually outcompete the dinos.