Diving The World's 80g Acro Wonderland!

[Gablami]

I'm having an issue with my chemistry this week that's really annoying me. I finished out my one gallon jug of BRS HC GFO and started a new one with my reactor change out this week. I've been using 8 Tbsp changed out once a month on our 89g est. system. I've been using it this way since the beginning and never noticed an issue.

This week when I replaced it, I noticed Alk dropped significantly. Luckily I noticed it with my Alkatronic and verified with my Hanna (from 7.5 to 6.88 in 6 hours). I also tested my Phosphate and it had dropped from approx. 0.03 to 0.003. So I think I might have a "new" GFO issue?

I turned off my reactor and tested for a couple days to see where it would go. After 24 hours I was back up to 0.03 and after 48 I was to around 0.06. So today, I turned the reactor back on with only 4 Tbsp of GFO and I'll see what happens. I may have to just wean my system off GFO completely...

I’m surprised you’re just now noticing this. Whenever I would change my GFO, my alk would drop the first day, to the point where I would increase my alk dosage for three days after changing the GFO. It was super annoying. GFO will bind phosphate or alkalinity.

It got to the point where I would pre-run my new canister of GFO for a few hours in a bucket before bringing it to my tank. It definitely helped with the alk drop but maybe also was less effective at reducing phosphates.

I’ve read that some people have multiple GFO reactors and alternate changing smaller amounts so there’s less effect on one change.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

I’m surprised you’re just now noticing this. Whenever I would change my GFO, my alk would drop the first day, to the point where I would increase my alk dosage for three days after changing the GFO. It was super annoying. GFO will bind phosphate or alkalinity.

It got to the point where I would pre-run my new canister of GFO for a few hours in a bucket before bringing it to my tank. It definitely helped with the alk drop but maybe also was less effective at reducing phosphates.

I’ve read that some people have multiple GFO reactors and alternate changing smaller amounts so there’s less effect on one change.

Yeah, I’ve been reading some of RHF’s articles talking about the same. I’m also surprised I never saw this before. That’s why I can only assume my old can of GFO was much less affective. The question is how ineffective was it? And can I consider removing it altogether as many heavy acro keepers have done. I’m actually less concerned about the Alk stripping because I can dose that, and more concerned with the possibility of it stripping too much Phosphate. I do not want to start dosing any Phosphate or Nitrate in this tank.

 

[Gablami]

Yeah, I’ve been reading some of RHF’s articles talking about the same. I’m also surprised I never saw this before. That’s why I can only assume my old can of GFO was much less affective. The question is how ineffective was it? And can I consider removing it altogether as many heavy acro keepers have done. I’m actually less concerned about the Alk stripping because I can dose that, and more concerned with the possibility of it stripping too much Phosphate. I do not want to start dosing any Phosphate or Nitrate in this tank.

I think it’s also logical that the lower the phosphate levels are in the tank, the more GFO is going to bind to carbonate ions as opposed to phosphate. So maybe your phosphate levels got so low that you’re noticing the effect on your alkalinity more? Who knows.

Same thing happens with lanthanum chloride too, but the difference is since that is continually dosed, it’s easier to compensate with your alkalinity dosing.

 

[Skynyrd Fish]

I haven’t checked in here in a while. Lots of great stuff happening in the tank. This makes me think about placing some mp40’s down low. I started dosing heavy on the alk In The early morning before lights go on (3.5 hours before) then scaled it back 30% through the rest of the day For four total doses. I hit the ca dosing in the early afternoon into the evening for a total of three doses, last being an hour after lights out. This made a big turn for me and my sps taking off. I switched this from four equally spread out doses for alk and ca. This kind of goes with what you found when you shut your dosing off for a night. Btw my palmers is one of my favorites. Your tank is awesome.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

I haven’t checked in here in a while. Lots of great stuff happening in the tank. This makes me think about placing some mp40’s down low. I started dosing heavy on the alk In The early morning before lights go on (3.5 hours before) then scaled it back 30% through the rest of the day For four total doses. I hit the ca dosing in the early afternoon into the evening for a total of three doses, last being an hour after lights out. This made a big turn for me and my sps taking off. I switched this from four equally spread out doses for alk and ca. This kind of goes with what you found when you shut your dosing off for a night. Btw my palmers is one of my favorites. Your tank is awesome.

Thanks! I didn't touch my Cal/Alk dosers, just my GFO reactor. My Cal/Alk dosers dose every 30 minutes 24/7 with a 10 minute offset (cal after alk). I have my cal/alk dosers set on two different schedules: lights on 10am-10pm, lights off 10pm-10am. This allows me to tune my dosers to keep the Cal/Alk as even as possible throughout the day and night.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

So today, I turned the reactor back on with only 4 Tbsp of GFO and I'll see what happens. I may have to just wean my system off GFO completely...

Alright, after 24 hours, here's where I am with 4 Tbsp. My Alk dropped by 0.384 dkh and Phosphate went from 0.0582 to 0.0153. Clearly better than 8 Tbsp! Alk leveled off during the night and there was no drop from 10pm to 10am. I'll keep monitoring over the next few days and report back.

0.0153 is lower than I would like and I'd rather be at 0.03-0.05. Based on this, I'll probably make my next GFO replacement 2-3 Tbsp.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

New acquisition tease list...

RR Angry Birds
RR Firecracker
RR Red Bull
RR Event Horizon Milli
TCK Inferno
TSA Bill Murray
WWC Forgemaster
WWC Ding Dang Milli
WWC Pink Panther
Snipers Bubblegum Milli
MattV Rainbow Envy
MattV Psycho Asylum

So it turns out I lack the patience I try to preach. ;Woot It’s painful to look at these awesome corals sitting on my frag rack and not on my rocks!! ;Nailbiting So this morning I placed 8 of them and might place a couple more after lunch. What’s wrong with me??!!

 

[JCOLE]

So it turns out I lack the patience I try to preach. ;Woot It’s painful to look at these awesome corals sitting on my frag rack and not on my rocks!! ;Nailbiting So this morning I placed 8 of them and might place a couple more after lunch. What’s wrong with me??!!

Nothing at all! I would have done the same. I just recieved 9 pieces in on Wednesday and they have been staring at me also. Just trying to find room before mounting.

That is one heck of a list. Which ones did you mount?

 

[Maxx]

I'm following so many amazing tanks that I've gotten lost in the weeds on some of them...
Are you running a fuge/chaeto reactor/algae scrubber at all? (I'm not remembering you running one of those)
Are you using filter socks/filter roller, or neither? (I honestly dont recall)

I ran filter socks, but didnt change them until they clogged.
I used run GFC all the time. I saw an alk drop for the first 24 hours but after that it leveled off.
I used LC for abit, but never get it dialed in right and had constant issues.
I never had good results with a fuge, but I'm inclined to blame that on inadequate lighting for the most part.
My first break through on PO4/NO3 management came from using a Pax Bellum ARID N24 reactor.
It pulled PO4 down real low, with little effort, and I wound up having to dose NO3 in order to lower PO4 further.

With my current little set up, (40 breeder, 20L sump, BB, set up since 5-29-20 with rock cooking in a tub with bacteria since 1-10-20) I'm noticing some interesting things:

I have a light bioload fish wise (2 longfin glass cardinalfish and 3 mollies I converted over to salt to add to the bioload). I have about 9 acro frags, 1 Indo dragon soul torch, and a couple of gorgonians and small/medium H.magnifica anemone that's been in captivity since Nov 2011.

I started using a filter roller for the first time and have been having issues with chronically low PO4 and NO3. To the point that I'm dosing them both every couple of days just to bring them to readable levels. My filter roller ran out of fleece on 8-18-20. It was a couple of days before the new roll came in.

On 8-18-20 at 415 pm PO4 was 0.05 ppm via Hanna 96713.
On 08-19-20 at 930 pm PO4 had risen to 0.27 ppm.
Phosban was added in a sock to the sump to lower it and brought it down to 0.04 ppm.

On 8-20-20 at 330 pm, the replacement filter roll arrived and was installed, phosban was removed.
On 08-23-20 at 0730 am, PO4 was 0.04 ppm.

I've been dosing Vibrant to knock out some small Valonia bubbles that came in on one of the the frags.
Those are all the changes I've made to my routine in the past couple of days and for the life of me, I cannot see any reason for that massive an increase to PO4 in such a short period other than the filter roller pulling uneaten food or detritus before it can decay in the tank.

Sample size of one, but there you go with my observations.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

Nothing at all! I would have done the same. I just recieved 9 pieces in on Wednesday and they have been staring at me also. Just trying to find room before mounting.

That is one heck of a list. Which ones did you mount?

Here's what's mounted as of yesterday:

RR Angry Birds
RR Firecracker
RR Event Horizon Milli
TCK Inferno
TSA Bill Murray
WWC Ding Dang Milli
Snipers Bubblegum Milli
MattV Psycho Asylum

 

[DivingTheWorld]

I'm following so many amazing tanks that I've gotten lost in the weeds on some of them...
Are you running a fuge/chaeto reactor/algae scrubber at all? (I'm not remembering you running one of those)
Are you using filter socks/filter roller, or neither? (I honestly dont recall)

I ran filter socks, but didnt change them until they clogged.
I used run GFC all the time. I saw an alk drop for the first 24 hours but after that it leveled off.
I used LC for abit, but never get it dialed in right and had constant issues.
I never had good results with a fuge, but I'm inclined to blame that on inadequate lighting for the most part.
My first break through on PO4/NO3 management came from using a Pax Bellum ARID N24 reactor.
It pulled PO4 down real low, with little effort, and I wound up having to dose NO3 in order to lower PO4 further.

With my current little set up, (40 breeder, 20L sump, BB, set up since 5-29-20 with rock cooking in a tub with bacteria since 1-10-20) I'm noticing some interesting things:

I have a light bioload fish wise (2 longfin glass cardinalfish and 3 mollies I converted over to salt to add to the bioload). I have about 9 acro frags, 1 Indo dragon soul torch, and a couple of gorgonians and small/medium H.magnifica anemone that's been in captivity since Nov 2011.

I started using a filter roller for the first time and have been having issues with chronically low PO4 and NO3. To the point that I'm dosing them both every couple of days just to bring them to readable levels. My filter roller ran out of fleece on 8-18-20. It was a couple of days before the new roll came in.

On 8-18-20 at 415 pm PO4 was 0.05 ppm via Hanna 96713.
On 08-19-20 at 930 pm PO4 had risen to 0.27 ppm.
Phosban was added in a sock to the sump to lower it and brought it down to 0.04 ppm.

On 8-20-20 at 330 pm, the replacement filter roll arrived and was installed, phosban was removed.
On 08-23-20 at 0730 am, PO4 was 0.04 ppm.

I've been dosing Vibrant to knock out some small Valonia bubbles that came in on one of the the frags.
Those are all the changes I've made to my routine in the past couple of days and for the life of me, I cannot see any reason for that massive an increase to PO4 in such a short period other than the filter roller pulling uneaten food or detritus before it can decay in the tank.

Sample size of one, but there you go with my observations.

I don't run a fuge/chaeto reactor/algae scrubber at all. I also don't run filter socks or filter rollers. The only filtration I have is a skimmer and a small amount of Rox 0.8 carbon and HC GFO in reactors.

I run a heavy fish load which IMO benefits the acros.

Be cautious with the Vibrant. It worked great for me for bubble algae but also seriously annoyed some acros. They eventually bounced back, but Vibrant is tricky. I would not personally use it for any other algae types.

 

[bubbaque]

Where did you pick up all the new frags from?

 

[revhtree]

Looks awesome my friend!

 

[DivingTheWorld]

Where did you pick up all the new frags from?

ARC, Pirates Reef and @FarmerTy .

 

[bubbaque]

Would love to see pics of the new frags.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

Would love to see pics of the new frags.

You mean like a new frag photo tour? I don't have bubbaque skills, but I'll see what I can do.

 

[Maxx]

I don't run a fuge/chaeto reactor/algae scrubber at all. I also don't run filter socks or filter rollers. The only filtration I have is a skimmer and a small amount of Rox 0.8 carbon and HC GFO in reactors.

I run a heavy fish load which IMO benefits the acros.

Be cautious with the Vibrant. It worked great for me for bubble algae but also seriously annoyed some acros. They eventually bounced back, but Vibrant is tricky. I would not personally use it for any other algae types.

I've heard about Vibrant affecting acros in the past. I'm literally only using it to attack the Valonia. In a 40 breeder I dont have room for a Rabbitfish, so I need to get the Valonia knocked out before it spreads and gets established. It wont be used for anything other than the Valonia.

I agree with you about the fish load, and I will be increasing it shortly. I've got more mollies getting acclimated to salt and will be adding them to the tank soon. I'm not wild about the mollies at all, but they arent aggressive, will eat some forms of algae, and they add to the bioload while I'm waiting for the specific fish I want for my tank.

Hope I didnt come off as trying to push filter rollers on anyone, I've only been using mine for a little while, and although I'm happy with it, I was more sharing the interesting PO4 information than anything else.

Obviously, the system you have is working quite well.

Keep up the good work and keep posting beautiful pics to inspire the rest of us!

 

[DivingTheWorld]

I've heard about Vibrant affecting acros in the past. I'm literally only using it to attack the Valonia. In a 40 breeder I dont have room for a Rabbitfish, so I need to get the Valonia knocked out before it spreads and gets established. It wont be used for anything other than the Valonia.

I agree with you about the fish load, and I will be increasing it shortly. I've got more mollies getting acclimated to salt and will be adding them to the tank soon. I'm not wild about the mollies at all, but they arent aggressive, will eat some forms of algae, and they add to the bioload while I'm waiting for the specific fish I want for my tank.

Hope I didnt come off as trying to push filter rollers on anyone, I've only been using mine for a little while, and although I'm happy with it, I was more sharing the interesting PO4 information than anything else.

Obviously, the system you have is working quite well.

Keep up the good work and keep posting beautiful pics to inspire the rest of us!

No, not at all. I was just clarifying what I use. My thread is always open to comments and suggestions. Yeah, Vibrant was the only thing that worked for me on Valonia. It works, just tread carefully. Watch your acros for signs of distress and test your Nitrate/Phosphate to make sure they're not getting out of wack. Some people report them going down, some up. I think somewhere near the beginning of this build thread I talked about how I used Vibrant, how often I dosed, etc.

 

[DivingTheWorld]

Alright, before I get started on my new frag photo tour, I need to highlight one change. A couple months ago I removed one of my SCOP colonies to put my double frag of RRA Ultimate Orange Passion in it's spot. Well...it didn't like it. Between that super high PAR spot and me recently swapping out my T5 bulbs, it's lightened considerably.

So a few days ago I cut a new chunk of SCOP and put it back in it's high PAR spot where the UOP has been. Honestly I don't know why I moved it in the first place because the colors from that colony have been some of the best SCOP colors I've seen anywhere, much better than my main colony.

So here's my chunk which will hopefully grow into a new colony:

I then moved my double frag of UOP to a lower PAR spot where my RRU Pink Cadillac had been (yes, I got rid of that colony). Over just the past few days it's colored up a bit so it seems to like it's new spot. Time will tell. I paid more for each of those little frags than I paid for any other coral in my tank. And I was crazy enough to buy 2!! So I need these little guys to live and turn into something I'm proud of.

 

[Maxx]

Good to know I wasnt coming off as a shill or a zealot of the newly converted order....
I'm going very slowly, just one dose per week (as directed).
As soon as I started dosing, Alk consumption went down. Corals still look happy, (IE polyp extension is still there) and tissue is not pale or thinning out anywhere...but some have darkened. The Sexy Corals OP doesnt seem to care at all, but the BC Ultimate Microclados has darkened.

I'm test dKh, NO3 and PO4 daily. I'm dosing NO3 & PO4 almost every 3 days. With Alk consumption dropping, I'm not needing to dose soda ash as much. Was daily (not much, just 12 mls is most I've ever had to dose), is now every other day. I just dont have that much demand on my system yet. NO3/PO4 consumption has remained fairly steady throughout, (15 mls of KNO3 from Green leaf Aquariums raises NO3 from under 1ppm up to 5 ppm for about 3-5 days, 1.85 mls of AquaVitro activate raises PO4 from 0.00 ppm to 0.10 ppm for about 3-5 days).

Do you dose Amino's at all?

I know Bubba did for a bit, I just dont remember if he did regularly or just the once and decided it wasnt worth the cost? I wonder if dosing amino's while dosing Vibrant would help any corals that got stressed out, or if it would just be one more thing to possibly cause issues while dosing Vibrant.

I really wish I could get a Doliatus Rabbitfish in my 40, I've always had good luck with them hammering out Valonia and I do think they are beautiful fish when fully grown. They just get too big for my little system.

And I agree with Bubba...would love to see pics of the frags.