DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

[dtv0893]

I’ll let @Randy Holmes-Farley comment, but my doses of ammonium bicarbonate have not registered any change on my pH probe and it doesn’t impact alkalinity. I suspect at the CO2 is insignificant at the levels we are adding to the tank.

Thanks, I think your pH probe just gave me the answer I needed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I see, just did some research on Google, ammonium bicarbonate has higher ph (7-8.5) than Ammonium Chloride (4.5-6) so it is not enough to raise ph. But ammonium bicarbonate realease co2, which can reduce ph level. I struggle to keep ph from 8-8.3, but seem that recipe 2 also not reduce ph?

I don’t think the pH effect is significant.you will be adding very little.

 

[rishma]

My test result supports my theory that ammonia added early in the day resulted in lower phosphate at the end of the day.

For the last week, my phosphate has been slightly higher in the morning and slightly lower in the evening. The only thing I did differently over the last week was a small ammonia dose early in the day.

Today I skipped my ammonia dose. My morning phosphate reading was 0.08. Tonight it was 0.09, slight higher (or maybe unchanged). Prior days this week the evening test was repeatably 0.03-0.06 ppm lower than the morning test.

So I suspect the ammonia is metabolized very quickly when added and reduces phosphate.

Pretty neat stuff!

Edit: It probably goes without saying but this is only a tiny bit better than anecdotal. Certainly not a proper experiment or statistically significant number of measurements. I am bouncing around the accuracy of a Hanna phosphorus ULR checker so take it all with a nice dose of NaCl. Cheers

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

My test result supports my theory that ammonia added early in the day resulted in lower phosphate at the end of the day.

For the last week, my phosphate has been slightly higher in the morning and slightly lower in the evening. The only thing I did differently over the last week was a small ammonia dose early in the day.

Today I skipped my ammonia dose. My morning phosphate reading was 0.08. Tonight it was 0.09, slight higher (or maybe unchanged). Prior days this week the evening test was repeatably 0.03-0.06 ppm lower than the morning test.

So I suspect the ammonia is metabolized very quickly when added and reduces phosphate.

Pretty neat stuff!

Edit: It probably goes without saying but this is only a tiny bit better than anecdotal. Certainly not a proper experiment or statistically significant number of measurements. I am bouncing around the accuracy of a Hanna phosphorus ULR checker so take it all with a nice dose of NaCl. Cheers

Interesting. :)

 

[spsick]

Couple thoughts here to get to the core issue on ammonia dropping phosphate.

Does nitrate dosing have the same impact on phosphate?

Is ammonia binding or destroying the phosphate we test for, or just increasing calcification? Could we answer this by dosing ammonia to a gallon of tank water and testing the phosphate before and after?

 

[rishma]

Couple thoughts here to get to the core issue on ammonia dropping phosphate.

Does nitrate dosing have the same impact on phosphate?

Is ammonia binding or destroying the phosphate we test for, or just increasing calcification? Could we answer this by dosing ammonia to a gallon of tank water and testing the phosphate before and after?

Dosing nitrate can result in lower phosphate in some cases. In a nitrogen limited tank with zero or near zero nitrate, dosing nitrate will often result in phosphate going down.

What is interesting is that I have plenty of nitrate, but the addition of ammonia seems to result in lower phosphate.

I don’t think it’s coral growth, I think it’s bacteria or algae. But that’s just a guess because it happens fast.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Couple thoughts here to get to the core issue on ammonia dropping phosphate.

Does nitrate dosing have the same impact on phosphate?

Is ammonia binding or destroying the phosphate we test for, or just increasing calcification? Could we answer this by dosing ammonia to a gallon of tank water and testing the phosphate before and after?

Ammonia and phosphate do not chemically interact in seawater or impact each others testing at the levels used. No need to test that.

 

[rishma]

Continuing my test, I dosed my ammonia last night (I normally do it early in the day after the lights are on). The test this morning showed higher 0.02-0.04 phosphate than last night (I tested twice in a row, two different results).

So what does this mean? I have no idea except it casts doubt on my idea about bacteria consuming phosphate quickly after ammonia is added. So while this has been fun i think I’ll put an end to the test so
As not to confuse myself or others.

I do think adding ammonia is resulting in lower phosphate as multiple users have observed this, but my attempts to get more specific than that are perhaps misleading.

 

[tbrown]

Hi there Randy! I have a question. I've been looking into nitrate dosing recently and am trying to decide between sodium nitrate and ammonium chloride.

If the math and conversions I've found are correct, 1 ppm of ammonium is equal to approximately 0.182 ppm of nitrates.

20 grams of Ammonium Chloride per liter gives me 0.042 ppm Nitrates per 10 ml dosed.

20 grams of Sodium Nitrate per liter gives me 0.51 ppm Nitrates per 10 ml dosed.

With both options being basically equal in cost per pound, is there a reason that Ammonium is the better option? I know in the first post you state that some organisms may find it easier to assimilate ammonia than nitrates which is understandable. Is the benefit to dosing ammonia worth the almost 10x increase in price to dose?

I understand also that my conversions could be wrong and my cost difference could be less significant than it looks?

Or is having available ammonium better than having available nitrates?

Sorry if it sounds like I'm arguing. I'm not trying to, I'm just trying to figure out which route to go and I've been hearing more about the Ammonium Chloride route lately.

 

[Dibi]

Hi, so I did a solution with amonnia bicarbonate. My nitrates is still 0 (1 week, dosing 0.4ppm per day).

Then I pick 500 ml of saltwater, nitrates 0. I put 30ml of the solution in these 500ml.

I measured again and still says 0. I try Nyos test (it was Hanna before) than 0 again.

Any thoughts?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hi there Randy! I have a question. I've been looking into nitrate dosing recently and am trying to decide between sodium nitrate and ammonium chloride.

If the math and conversions I've found are correct, 1 ppm of ammonium is equal to approximately 0.182 ppm of nitrates.

20 grams of Ammonium Chloride per liter gives me 0.042 ppm Nitrates per 10 ml dosed.

20 grams of Sodium Nitrate per liter gives me 0.51 ppm Nitrates per 10 ml dosed.

With both options being basically equal in cost per pound, is there a reason that Ammonium is the better option? I know in the first post you state that some organisms may find it easier to assimilate ammonia than nitrates which is understandable. Is the benefit to dosing ammonia worth the almost 10x increase in price to dose?

I understand also that my conversions could be wrong and my cost difference could be less significant than it looks?

Or is having available ammonium better than having available nitrates?

Sorry if it sounds like I'm arguing. I'm not trying to, I'm just trying to figure out which route to go and I've been hearing more about the Ammonium Chloride route lately.

The best option is ammonium bicarbonate, in my opinion. Ammonium is best, and the chloride form depletes alkalinity. Nearly everyone in this thread uses the ammonium bicarbonate.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hi, so I did a solution with amonnia bicarbonate. My nitrates is still 0 (1 week, dosing 0.4ppm per day).

Then I pick 500 ml of saltwater, nitrates 0. I put 30ml of the solution in these 500ml.

I measured again and still says 0. I try Nyos test (it was Hanna before) than 0 again.

Any thoughts?

A nitrate test kit won’t detect ammonium unless it is converted into nitrate.

In your tank, I’d add another dose.

 

[Dibi]

A nitrate test kit won’t detect ammonium unless it is converted into nitrate.

In your tank, I’d add another dose.

Ok do you think 0.8ppm per day is fine?

 

[jackson6745]

Ok do you think 0.8ppm per day is fine?

No idea your water volume, but I add 40ml per day for 300g to see a small 1-2ppm difference over a week.

 

[KStatefan]

If the math and conversions I've found are correct, 1 ppm of ammonium is equal to approximately 0.182 ppm of nitrates.

20 grams of Ammonium Chloride per liter gives me 0.042 ppm Nitrates per 10 ml dosed.

20 grams of Sodium Nitrate per liter gives me 0.51 ppm Nitrates per 10 ml dosed.

With both options being basically equal in cost per pound, is there a reason that Ammonium is the better option? I know in the first post you state that some organisms may find it easier to assimilate ammonia than nitrates which is understandable. Is the benefit to dosing ammonia worth the almost 10x increase in price to dose?

I understand also that my conversions could be wrong and my cost difference could be less significant than it looks?

Or is having available ammonium better than having available nitrates?

Sorry if it sounds like I'm arguing. I'm not trying to, I'm just trying to figure out which route to go and I've been hearing more about the Ammonium Chloride route lately.

I think your conversion is not correct in Randy's first post "0.1 ppm ammonia (equivalent to 0.36 ppm nitrate"

 

[JulesH]

Could the deltas in PO4 be a function of the errors/inaccuracies associated with the instrument?

 

[tbrown]

I think your conversion is not correct in Randy's first post "0.1 ppm ammonia (equivalent to 0.36 ppm nitrate"

Right, and 2 ppm ammonium is equivalent 0.1 ppm ammonia? So 2 ppm ammonium is 0.36 ppm nitrates or 1 ppm ammonium is 0.18 ppm nitrates.

 

[tbrown]

The best option is ammonium bicarbonate, in my opinion. Ammonium is best, and the chloride form depletes alkalinity. Nearly everyone in this thread uses the ammonium bicarbonate.

My alkalinity sits at around 10.4 currently so the Chloride wouldn't hurt though, right?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Ok do you think 0.8ppm per day is fine?

If it is spread out, yes.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

My alkalinity sits at around 10.4 currently so the Chloride wouldn't hurt though, right?

If you don't care about alk lowering, then it is fine. I recommend 7-11 dKH.

Why do you prefer it? Baking ammonia (ammonium bicarbonate) is cheap and good purity.