DIY Balling Method Recipe

[ethipelagic]

Hey Randy and friends, I've been running the high all version of this with NaOH for the past 6 months and it's been going great.

I'm now looking at changing to the no/low pH boost version from your original recipe on reefkeeping.com that uses un-baked baking soda but isn't noted in the first post on here. Is 297g/gallon still a valid choice for the 1:1:1 dosing we're aiming for here?

Follow up question; if I wanted to balance the pH boost by dosing NaOH and Baking Soda in varying amounts, from different containers; would that be okay?

Thanks so much for your thoughts.

Also just now learning about Miami Reef, oh my gosh, that's super sad :(

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hey Randy and friends, I've been running the high all version of this with NaOH for the past 6 months and it's been going great.

I'm now looking at changing to the no/low pH boost version from your original recipe on reefkeeping.com that uses un-baked baking soda but isn't noted in the first post on here. Is 297g/gallon still a valid choice for the 1:1:1 dosing we're aiming for here?

Follow up question; if I wanted to balance the pH boost by dosing NaOH and Baking Soda in varying amounts, from different containers; would that be okay?

Thanks so much for your thoughts.

Also just now learning about Miami Reef, oh my gosh, that's super sad :(

The unbaked baking soda recipe is exactly half as potent as the recipes in this thread. Either add twice as much of it, or drop the other parts by half (or dilute them1:1 with RO/DI water) to keep everything matching.

It's an OK way to control pH. Note that 2 volumes of the baking soda alk part and one volume of the NaOH part should have a pH boost and alk boost very close to 2 volumes of the carbonate version.

 

[ethipelagic]

The unbaked baking soda recipe is exactly half as potent as the recipes in this thread. Either add twice as much of it, or drop the other parts by half (or dilute them1:1 with RO/DI water) to keep everything matching.

It's an OK way to control pH. Note that 2 volumes of the baking soda alk part and one volume of the NaOH part should have a pH boost and alk boost very close to 2 volumes of the carbonate version.

Amazing, thanks so much for the quick and informative answer. I think I'll set the Apex to dose bicarb when the pH is above 8.3 and NaOH when it's below, or something along those lines.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Amazing, thanks so much for the quick and informative answer. I think I'll set the Apex to dose bicarb when the pH is above 8.3 and NaOH when it's below, or something along those lines.

Seems reasonable. :)

 

[Djmac]

Ive been using Randy's Recipe 1 for a while and I've just mixed up my first Balling C to try this out. I didnt have enough magnesium chloride on hand to make the full 1 gallon of the magnesium add-on, so I just measured out enough for 203ml.

Im hoping I havent stuffed up the calculations somewhere:
189g AF mineral salt in 3.8L RODI
Plus
68.65g magnesium chloride
6.84g magnesium sulfate
In 203ml RODI

 

[RPontual]

Hello Reefers. Can you double the amount of product that goes in to each part of the 3 part method to make each dose more concentrated? If yes, how concentrated can I mix each part for 1 gallon of RODI water?

Im scared i'll end up making it precipitate or make it unstable, ionically speaking.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hello Reefers. Can you double the amount of product that goes in to each part of the 3 part method to make each dose more concentrated? If yes, how concentrated can I mix each part for 1 gallon of RODI water?

Im scared i'll end up making it precipitate or make it unstable, ionically speaking.

No. The alk part is close to its solubility limit. That is true of most two part additives.

You can make the calcium part more concentrated, and likely Part C as well.

 

[EnterName]

No. The alk part is close to its solubility limit. That is true of most two part additives.

You can make the calcium part more concentrated, and likely Part C as well.

How much "safety margin" would you recommend regarding solubility?

If my math isn't off, the proposed Na2CO3 solution (375g/gal ≈ 99.1g/L) should be around 60.4% saturated at 15°C/59°F and 46% at 20°C/68°F. Would adding 50% (resulting in 149g/L, saturation: 91% at 15°C/59°F and 69% at 20°C/68°F) already be too much?

Solubility Na₂CO₃ (15°C/59°F): 164g/L
Solubility Na₂CO₃ (20°C/68°F): 217g/L

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

How much "safety margin" would you recommend regarding solubility?

If my math isn't off, the proposed Na2CO3 solution (375g/gal ≈ 99.1g/L) should be around 60.4% saturated at 15°C/59°F and 46% at 20°C/68°F. Would adding 50% (resulting in 149g/L, saturation: 91% at 15°C/59°F and 69% at 20°C/68°F) already be too much?

Solubility Na₂CO₃ (15°C/59°F): 164g/L
Solubility Na₂CO₃ (20°C/68°F): 217g/L

It becomes harder and harder to reach and maintain saturation.

Why is high potency so important? There are drawbacks even if you can do it, such as more potential for local precipitation when added to tank water.

That said, if high potency is critical, perhaps sodium hydroxide is the way to go, dosed into very high flow places.

 

[EnterName]

How much "safety margin" would you recommend regarding solubility?

If my math isn't off, the proposed Na2CO3 solution (375g/gal ≈ 99.1g/L) should be around 60.4% saturated at 15°C/59°F and 46% at 20°C/68°F. Would adding 50% (resulting in 149g/L, saturation: 91% at 15°C/59°F and 69% at 20°C/68°F) already be too much?

Solubility Na₂CO₃ (15°C/59°F): 164g/L
Solubility Na₂CO₃ (20°C/68°F): 217g/L

It becomes harder and harder to reach and maintain saturation.

Why is high potency so important? There are drawbacks even if you can do it, such as more potential for local precipitation when added to tank water.

That said, if high potency is critical, perhaps sodium hydroxide is the way to go, dosed into very high flow places.

It was more of a hypothetical question, because I was wondering if there were more reasons besides solubility concerns that might make such solutions unstable.

I'm currently using a DIY balling approach at pretty normal concentrations and am planning to keep it that way. Sure, more concentrated solutions require less frequent dosing container refillment, but the local precipitation issue kept me from trying this stuff.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It was more of a hypothetical question, because I was wondering if there were more reasons besides solubility concerns that might make such solutions unstable.

I'm currently using a DIY balling approach at pretty normal concentrations and am planning to keep it that way. Sure, more concentrated solutions require less frequent dosing container refillment, but the local precipitation issue kept me from trying this stuff.

Ok, sounds good. :)

 

[FishTacos2]

@Randy Holmes-Farley @Miami Reef


So I read over this whole thread, it’s just what I’m looking for. I want to switch over from All for reef not because it isn’t a great product but because it’s not helping raise PH. My ph in my tank is 7.8-8.1 sometimes it’ll dip a touch below 7.8 at night. I’ve been using it since the start of my tank for a little over 1.5 years.

My tank is heavy sps mixed reef. And currently using a recirculating co2 scrubber to bring PH up but I’m only getting about 2 weeks out of the media before it starts to drop off, I want to stop using the scrubber. Can anyone help me with the how much soda ash I’d need to dose compared to AFR I dose 75ml in my 50gal.

As for the ingredients to make this 3 part is the BRS Pharma Balling Method Bulk Total Pack the right ingredients to make this I want to use A/K for trace.

Just wondering how your transition from AFR went. Did you find the dosing was as predicted? AFR 1.15x this recipe?

 

[805reeftank]

Just wondering how your transition from AFR went. Did you find the dosing was as predicted? AFR 1.15x this recipe?

It’s gone great I was dosing 82ml of all for reef if I remember correctly. So I started with 70ish ml which was close to maintenance took me a couple days to dial it in completely but I’m now up to 80 ml of sodium hydroxide.

 

[rishma]

It’s gone great I was dosing 82ml of all for reef if I remember correctly. So I started with 70ish ml which was close to maintenance took me a couple days to dial it in completely but I’m now up to 80 ml of sodium hydroxide.

How’s the pH of the tank?

 

[805reeftank]

How’s the pH of the tank?

Huge difference with ARF I was hitting 8.15 high now it’s 8.35. With my co2 scrubber ph goes sky high 8.6

 

[gobble]

I've been doing a whole lot of reading today trying to catch up on the latest after a 3-year break from keeping sps corals. I'll be adding them to a 230 gallon system that has been running for about 2 years.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but given the rather significant amount of Tropic Marin A- and K+ needed per gallon of Alk and Calcium, isn't the powder AFR (which seems to include the A- and K+ trace elements) a less expensive alternative vs. this 3 part solution?

AFR seems too easy to be the be the best option? Especially when I have about 10 dosing heads at my disposal. Is the big downside that it has a pH lowering effect like when I was running a calcium reactor (which was always a big struggle).

 

[rishma]

I've been doing a whole lot of reading today trying to catch up on the latest after a 3-year break from keeping sps corals. I'll be adding them to a 230 gallon system that has been running for about 2 years.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but given the rather significant amount of Tropic Marin A- and K+ needed per gallon of Alk and Calcium, isn't the powder AFR (which seems to include the A- and K+ trace elements) a less expensive alternative vs. this 3 part solution?

AFR seems too easy to be the be the best option? Especially when I have about 10 dosing heads at my disposal. Is the big downside that it has a pH lowering effect like when I was running a calcium reactor (which was always a big struggle).

I did some math a while ago and from my notes for a 1.5dkH per day demand, AFR was going to cost $2.59 per gallon per year while diy balling plus trace would cost $1.84 per gallon per year.

AFR is a great solution but the cost is high. Even on a big tank I’d consider it because of the simplicity. One dosing head to maintain, consistent dosing proportions, etc.

The low pH can be mitigated. My current tank is aerated aggressively with outdoor air. I cannot see the pH impact of the AFR dose.

I have thought extensively about which system I would use next on a larger tank. I’m really not sure, but AFR is not out of the running.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I use AFR for simplicity, despite the higher cost and potential pH lowering relative to high pH alk methods. But the multi part needs more dosing pumps unless you are all manual, so that helps offset the costs.

I’m not sure what products Rishma used for the cost estimate, but one may also be able to use cheaper alk and calcium brands in the diy.

 

[ethipelagic]

From my perspective it's all about what I can get hold of easily. AFR sounds great, but I'm in the UK and American reefing products can often either cost more or suddenly become unavailable for long periods of time. I don't like to be tied into something like that and get messed about when things change. Also since I don't think we fully know exactly what the AFR recipe is, I'm not risking things changing if they change their recipe at any point.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

From my perspective it's all about what I can get hold of easily. AFR sounds great, but I'm in the UK and American reefing products can often either cost more or suddenly become unavailable for long periods of time. I don't like to be tied into something like that and get messed about when things change. Also since I don't think we fully know exactly what the AFR recipe is, I'm not risking things changing if they change their recipe at any point.

Just an FYI, AFR is not an American product. It is from Tropic Marin.

I also believe we (I) do know exactly what is in AFR. :)