Do you run a Skimmer?

[mdb_talon]

i don’t use both, My tank has been setup for 5-6 months and i have had no issues. I have a bunch of different corals and they thrive. I do water changes every other - every other two weeks.

Longterm you have to use something. Water changes in itself is not going to keep a tank healthy over time. Whether it be skimmer, refugium, carbon dosing(which requires skimmer to be effective), other chemical remove method, or something more old school like a DSB you simply have to have an export for nitrates.

For example if your tank produces 100 nitrates per week and you do a 50% water change weekly the first week the nitrates drop to 50. The end of the next week nitrates are at 150 (50+100) and you do a 50% change again your nitrates are now at 75. Every week it would go up. No matter what you do water changes are not enough to control nitrates over the long term. There is some natural nitrate export processes that happen in live rock/sand/etc, but it would be extremely rare that would be sufficient longterm. They are great at converting amonia and nitrite, but not so good at nitrate removal.

 

[ThatPhillyReefer]

Longterm you have to use something. Water changes in itself is not going to keep a tank healthy over time. Whether it be skimmer, refugium, carbon dosing(which requires skimmer to be effective), other chemical remove method, or something more old school like a DSB you simply have to have an export for nitrates.

For example if your tank produces 100 nitrates per week and you do a 50% water change weekly the first week the nitrates drop to 50. The end of the next week nitrates are at 150 (50+100) and you do a 50% change again your nitrates are now at 75. Every week it would go up. No matter what you do water changes are not enough to control nitrates over the long term. There is some natural nitrate export processes that happen in live rock/sand/etc, but it would be extremely rare that would be sufficient longterm. They are great at converting amonia and nitrite, but not so good at nitrate removal.

i am definitely going to set up a refugium soon due to me getting a lot for corals.

Once I buy a bigger sump i am going to run both

 

[Dkmoo]

answer really depends on individual situation

if lightly stocked - WC alone could work but if system is new then the waste readings will be misleading b/c a lot of excess waste is actively being absorbed into sand/rock causing low no3/po4 reading and giving false impression that "doing wc is enough", then 8 months later rock/sand reach saturation and BAM algae/cyano explosion.

if heavily stocked - depends on what other filtration you have. sock/fuge/floss, etc.. each method targets a specific section of the nutrient cycle from food input to no3/po4 absorption so each is not a direct replacement to others in terms of waste management. Generally skimmer and flossers target earlier stages of nutrient cycle so to the extent any waste passes thru, it will accumulate/exported via WC or algae absorption only. to that end, if you want to decide the relative necessity of each stage of filtration, then fuge would be the most necessary as it targets the final waste product.

 

[Spare time]

Refugium only. Works better than skimmers if you get the right light and trace element dosing.

PS I know this is a controversial opinion

 

[mdb_talon]

i am definitely going to set up a refugium soon due to me getting a lot for corals.

Once I buy a bigger sump i am going to run both

Good plan. Refugiums are great for tank health in addition to being a way to export nitrates. I run both because I have a heavily stocked system and feed well so a refugium would have to be enormous to keep up unless I remove much of the organics before they turn into nitrates. On my next tank I am going to try to not use a skimmer and just use a refugium with an algae scrubber and see how that goes.

 

[Spare time]

A refugium alone can get you low nitrate and phosphate without water changes. A skimmer alone (no carbon dosing or similat) will never be able to do that. Every tank with a skimmer eventually will get to high levels of nitrate and phosphate. I believe skimmers are most effective at delaying the high numbers but not solving them. I also think that people giving refugium low par, narrow spectrum lights that often are actually missing the right peak wavelengths, or just simple bulbs has made people in the past think refugium are not as strong as they can be. Why did I go with an ai prime 16 for my refugium? Decent spread (not frying the center of the algae mass), not a fire hazard, high par and wide blue spectrum, tunability, and warranty. People spend hundreds on their skimmers, and then will only go with a $30 light for a refugium and have mediocre growth.

 

[mdb_talon]

PS I know this is a controversial opinion

I think you are talking about two separate things here. While a properly sized refugium can eliminate the need for a skimmer they dont really do the same thing. The skimmer removes organics before they breakdown and a refugium consumes the organics after they have broken down. I would certainly not say either one is "better" it really depends on the tank, setup, and goals.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I ran a skimmer for 20 years. When I experimented without it, the pH rose too much (I was using liemwater for alk and calcium).

IMO, I would use a skimmer for aeration alone, even if it did nothing else. O2 and CO2 are not so readily equilibrated in reef aquaria, even with one. Anyone can see the potential concern for insufficient aeration by the pH swing day to night. If you have a pH swing, aeration is not complete, and one should then not assume that O2 is properly equilibrated.

Organic removal is a plus, IMO, unrelated to nutrient control.

 

[Spare time]

I think you are talking about two separate things here. While a properly sized refugium can eliminate the need for a skimmer they dont really do the same thing. The skimmer removes organics before they breakdown and a refugium consumes the organics after they have broken down. I would certainly not say either one is "better" it really depends on the tank, setup, and goals.

I am saying my reasoning for not running a skimmer unless the system becomes very very fish heavy. True they do not do the same things, but for those that debate having a skimmer or not, I often try to suggest using a refugium first. After all, the goal of skimmers and refugium are the same regardless of the means.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

After all, the goal of skimmers and refugium are the same regardless of the means.

Are they? I ran both, for different reasons.

My goal with skimmers is not nutrient control.

Does a refugium export potentially toxic organics released by algae and pests like cyano and dinos?

Without my skimmer, my pH was peaking too high. Refugium may or may not have been helping, but it alone was not sufficient.

 

[Spare time]

Are they? I ran both, for different reasons.

My goal with skimmers is not nutrient control.

Does a refugium export potentially toxic organics released by algae and pests like cyano and dinos?

Without my skimmer, my pH was peaking too high. Refugium may or may not have been helping, but it alone was not sufficient.

True true. I think that what I'm trying to say is for what average people (such as those who come to the lfs I've worked in for 3 years) in the hobby run a skimmer for (waste management), it isn't as crucial to a tank as a lot of people make it out to be. I am not trying to say skimmers are not good. Skimmers are great tools for so many purposes and are fantastic at what they do.

 

[jaganshi066]

Anyone on here who doesn't use a skimmer also not using a fuge? Interested to see how you make it work.

I just do 25% water changes every week, never lost a fish and corals are doing really well. Nitrates always below 5 and parameters are good

 

[Jekyl]

I just do 25% water changes every week, never lost a fish and corals are doing really well. Nitrates always below 5 and parameters are good

How old of a tank though?

 

[jaganshi066]

It’s

How old of a tank though?

about two years

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I just do 25% water changes every week, never lost a fish and corals are doing really well. Nitrates always below 5 and parameters are good

If you haven't used a skimmer on that tank, you cannot really know if the tank would be better with one.

You can certainly claim it is good enough for you without one.

But you cannot really demonstrate that a skimmer would not be useful on your tank.

 

[jaganshi066]

If you haven't used a skimmer on that tank, you cannot really know if the tank would be better with one.

You can certainly claim it is good enough for you without one.

But you cannot really demonstrate that a skimmer would not be useful on your tank.

True, but if everything’s going well then I’ll continue doing this, working well for a couple of years so far

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

True, but if everything’s going well then I’ll continue doing this, working well for a couple of years so far

I can't argue with that.

 

[DxMarinefish]

I now run a skimmer after having a salty aquarium since 2007, never did before.
I don't collect the skimmate, i just let it flow back (not much to collect anyway).

My main (not only) nutrient export is two powerful ATS.

Skimmer is for:
1-Aeration - So the air line is fed from outside the house.
2-Emergencies - Incase i need to urgently remove quickly accumulated nasties, like my soft corals spawning.

 

[burningmime]

I ran a skimmer for 20 years. When I experimented without it, the pH rose too much (I was using liemwater for alk and calcium).

IMO, I would use a skimmer for aeration alone, even if it did nothing else. O2 and CO2 are not so readily equilibrated in reef aquaria, even with one. Anyone can see the potential concern for insufficient aeration by the pH swing day to night. If you have a pH swing, aeration is not complete, and one should then not assume that O2 is properly equilibrated.

Organic removal is a plus, IMO, unrelated to nutrient control.

Are there skimmer-like things that have the same aeration advantages without actually skimming? Just an airline and a needle-wheel pump? Or maybe even an air pump?

 

[DxMarinefish]

Are there skimmer-like things that have the same aeration advantages without actually skimming? Just an airline and a needle-wheel pump? Or maybe even an air pump?

Some people i know just run an air stone. As long as they solve the issue of bubbles in the tank, then why not if the reason is to aerate the tank.