Does copper kill beneficial bacteria in a hospital tank

[scoobysnack77]

I'm treating my fish for ICH using a chelated copper treatment in a separate hospital tank. I added a sack of porous media in a sack in the hang on the back filter that has been soaking in my display sump for months to make sure there is beneficial bacteria in the hospital tank. but I'm having issues with ammonia so i wanted to add bio spira to the tank to raise the bacteria levels but i heard from the people at instant ocean that copper kills beneficial bacteria. is this true? if so , can a skimmer remove ammonia? i have one in there now (tunze 9011) and its not very affective so far. anyone know?

 

[redfishbluefish]

I've never seen a hospital tank that had media (rock or sand) to support bacteria. You're going to have to control your ammonia by other means....filtration/water changes.

 

[stunreefer]

What copper product are you using specifically? In short yes many copper meds can kill/damage beneficial bacteria.

I added a sack of porous media in a sack in the hang on the back filter that has been soaking in my display sump for months to make sure there is beneficial bacteria in the hospital tank.

What type of porous media? Something like ceramic or rock, or carbon/GFO?

Your best bet in the short term is to reduce ammonia with an ammonia neutralizer.

 

[scoobysnack77]

I've never seen a hospital tank that had media (rock or sand) to support bacteria. You're going to have to control your ammonia by other means....filtration/water changes.

so far I've been doing a water change every 3 days and i have a skimmer hooked up. can't get that much skim though. do skimmers remove ammonia?

 

[scoobysnack77]

What copper product are you using specifically? In short yes many copper meds can kill/damage beneficial bacteria.
What type of porous media? Something like ceramic or rock, or carbon/GFO?

Your best bet in the short term is to reduce ammonia with an ammonia neutralizer.

the media is those little porous rocks that hold bacteria. they come with most hang in the back filters.

 

[ritter6788]

I used live rock my last QT. Treated ich on 4 fish with copper safe in a 20 high. Never had detectable ammonia or nitrite. Never did a water change either. I ditched the rock when I got done and don't plan on using it again. Just an experiment I did. I can't say that's the way it needs to be done but I'll do it that way from now on unless I see a reason not to.

 

[scoobysnack77]

I used live rock my last QT. Treated ich on 4 fish with copper safe in a 20 high. Never had detectable ammonia or nitrite. Never did a water change either. I ditched the rock when I got done and don't plan on using it again. Just an experiment I did. I can't say that's the way it needs to be done but I'll do it that way from now on unless I see a reason not to.

boy does that sound nice i have a ton of cured live rock i don't use of that I've never used just soaking in saltwater. maybe ill try that . what did you use to test ammonia?

 

[ritter6788]

boy does that sound nice i have a ton of cured live rock i don't use of that I've never used just soaking in saltwater. maybe ill try that . what did you use to test ammonia?

Same here. I had ugly liverock cured in a bucket. I used API tests.

 

[Deinonych]

Copper may reduce the biofilter somewhat, but not significantly. For QT, I use a couple handfuls of Seachem Matrix in a media bag in the HOB filter, then seed with Bio-spira. Ammonia has never been a problem using this method.

To the OP: how many fish are you treating? If only a few, tank transfer method (TTM) might be a viable method as they aren't in each tank long enough for ammonia to be an issue.

 

[Humblefish]

Copper may reduce the biofilter somewhat, but not significantly. For QT, I use a couple handfuls of Seachem Matrix in a media bag in the HOB filter, then seed with Bio-spira. Ammonia has never been a problem using this method.

^^This. Copper will put a dent in bacteria levels, but not to the point where it completely wipes out a healthy bio-filter. I seed a sponge (the one that comes with Aquaclear powerfilters) for one month down in my DT's sump, and then use that as my bio-filter in QT. I've hit it with both chelated & ionic copper for up to 30 days at a time and have never seen an ammonia spike. Back in the day, we used copper & antibiotics regularly on DTs (before corals), and I never saw an ammonia spike doing that either.

 

[scoobysnack77]

Copper may reduce the biofilter somewhat, but not significantly. For QT, I use a couple handfuls of Seachem Matrix in a media bag in the HOB filter, then seed with Bio-spira. Ammonia has never been a problem using this method.

To the OP: how many fish are you treating? If only a few, tank transfer method (TTM) might be a viable method as they aren't in each tank long enough for ammonia to be an issue.

thats pretty much what I'm doing with these media pellets. I'm going to seed the tank tonight with bio spira cuz i don't think the media pellets i kept in my DT sump is strong enough. and I'm treating about 13 fish at once and leaving my DT fallow for 73 days to starve the ICH. i don't have enough tanks for the tank transfer method

 

[scoobysnack77]

copper was a pain in the butt. so i switched to chloroquine phosphate and its MUCH better for curing ICH and safer too.

 

[Reef Box]

copper was a pain in the butt. so i switched to chloroquine phosphate and its MUCH better for curing ICH and safer too.

Sorry to bring up an old post but I'm interested to see if chloroquine phosphate cured your ich in the long run. I don't have any fish yet but I'm hoping to quarantine/treat for ich before anything makes it to my DT

 

[saltwaterlover]

Because im going to be using copper, how much of the water should i take out my quarantine tank for a daily water changes in order to keep the ammonia down to a good level for the fish to surivive until moved into the display tank?

 

[Humblefish]

Because im going to be using copper, how much of the water should i take out my quarantine tank for a daily water changes in order to keep the ammonia down to a good level for the fish to surivive until moved into the display tank?

That will depend heavily upon your QT tank size + fish bioload. A better strategy for controlling ammonia is to use seeded bio-media in a HOB filter. You can “seed” a sponge (for example) in a high flow area of your DT’s sump (or you can put it behind the rocks) for at least one month prior to QT. This one month allows time for enough beneficial bacteria to transfer onto the sponge, so that it may be used as biological filtration once placed back in the power filter and used in QT. An alternative (albeit expensive) way to seed a sponge is to use a "bacteria in a bottle" product in QT. More info on that here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bacteria-in-a-bottle-myth-or-fact.403226/

Even with seeded media, it is still possible to encounter ammonia in QT and have to do water changes on an as-needed basis. I personally use a Seachem ammonia alert badge to keep tabs on ammonia: