Dog puffer ich? Copper question

[Miller Aquatic]

So i had this puffer fish for a couple weeks and had gotten ich and i noticed scratching. I dropped the salinity to 1.009. It has been like that for a couple days and it hasn’t gotten rid of all the dots. He is still eating. In the middle of this I noticed a leak in must be the bottom seam.( this is my 55g) I am thinking of moving them to the 25g qt tank downstairs and after moving salinity back up start copper power. My question is is I used dechlorinated tap water to start up the qt tank would this matter with copper power I heard it is not good to use any products of the sorts with copper. Or did the dechlorination product already denature or whatever.

 

[vetteguy53081]

So i had this puffer fish for a couple weeks and had gotten ich and i noticed scratching. I dropped the salinity to 1.009. It has been like that for a couple days and it hasn’t gotten rid of all the dots. He is still eating. In the middle of this I noticed a leak in must be the bottom seam.( this is my 55g) I am thinking of moving them to the 25g qt tank downstairs and after moving salinity back up start copper power. My question is is I used dechlorinated tap water to start up the qt tank would this matter with copper power I heard it is not good to use any products of the sorts with copper. Or did the dechlorination product already denature or whatever.

assuming coppersafe, I prefer RODI water but dechlorinated no the end of the world. Tap water often contains flouride and other undesirable additives, even alkalinity. Hypo while not my favorable treatment takes a couple of days to start taking effect. My preferred with smooth ski puffers like yours, guinea fowl and golden is coppersafe which they handle well and should be brought to treatment level 2.25ppm for a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off and with occupants exposed, they too should go into quarantine

 

[Miller Aquatic]

assuming coppersafe, I prefer RODI water but dechlorinated no the end of the world. Tap water often contains flouride and other undesirable additives, even alkalinity. Hypo while not my favorable treatment takes a couple of days to start taking effect. My preferred with smooth ski puffers like yours, guinea fowl and golden is coppersafe which they handle well and should be brought to treatment level 2.25ppm for a FULL 30 days (do not interrupt this 30 day period) monitored by a reliable Copper Test kit such as Hanna Brand- No API brand. Also monitor Ammonia levels while in quarantine with a reliable test kit and add aeration during treatment using an air stone.
The display tank will have to be kept fishless (FALLOW) for 6-8 weeks to assure the existing parasites go through their life cycle without a host fish and die off and with occupants exposed, they too should go into quarantine

I only have copper power and cupramine and I have a Hanna copper hr tester. I’ve just been scared of using it because I’ve heard that dechlorinated water would kill all my fishes with copper

 

[vetteguy53081]

I only have copper power and cupramine and I have a Hanna copper hr tester. I’ve just been scared of using it because I’ve heard that dechlorinated water would kill all my fishes with copper

Copper Power is equivalent to coppersafe and is a safe chelated form. Use standard, even purchased saltwater but dechlorinated will not kill the fish but not favorable.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I only have copper power and cupramine and I have a Hanna copper hr tester. I’ve just been scared of using it because I’ve heard that dechlorinated water would kill all my fishes with copper

That isn’t quite correct. There is some fear that reducing agents will break the bond in Cupramine, making it more toxic. Reducing agents include dechlorinators. The company even says don’t use it with prime.

I’m concerned about the same issue with copper power and coppersafe. I’ve been told by some “experts” that this isn’t a worry, but when I ask specific questions about reducing agents, they can’t provide data.

So - to be safe, never use an excess amount of reducing agents with any copper product is best. You can use the proper amount of dechlor, just don’t overdose it.

 

[Miller Aquatic]

That isn’t quite correct. There is some fear that reducing agents will break the bond in Cupramine, making it more toxic. Reducing agents include dechlorinators. The company even says don’t use it with prime.

I’m concerned about the same issue with copper power and coppersafe. I’ve been told by some “experts” that this isn’t a worry, but when I ask specific questions about reducing agents, they can’t provide data.

So - to be safe, never use an excess amount of reducing agents with any copper product is best. You can use the proper amount of dechlor, just don’t overdose it.

How long does thimosulfate take to disappear and be safe with it. I believe that’s the only reducing agent in the api dechlorinator. For example if I use the dechlorinated tap water for the tank before I start copper and not do any water changes with the treated water during the copper power would I be garunteed to be safe?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

How long does thimosulfate take to disappear and be safe with it. I believe that’s the only reducing agent in the api dechlorinator. For example if I use the dechlorinated tap water for the tank before I start copper and not do any water changes with the treated water during the copper power would I be garunteed to be safe?

It isn’t really a time thing, it is more of an “unreacted” amount. If you are dosing a normal amount, to dechlorinate tap water, there won’t be much, if any, remaining unreacted sodium thiosulfate.

People get into trouble with it when added it when there is no chlorine present for it to react with, or adding a higher than normal dose.

 

[Miller Aquatic]

I have upped the copper power to about 1 today and I noticed he has these spots that look like little white egg sac looking things on his side. It’s no where else just a little clump. I have a picture of a different fish for reference because I’m not home. It literally looks like a small clump of little eggs on his side
I’m gonna try and up it to 1.5 tonight.
right by the fishes bigger dot and under his fin you can see what I’m talking about.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have upped the copper power to about 1 today and I noticed he has these spots that look like little white egg sac looking things on his side. It’s no where else just a little clump. I have a picture of a different fish for reference because I’m not home. It literally looks like a small clump of little eggs on his side
I’m gonna try and up it to 1.5 tonight.
right by the fishes bigger dot and under his fin you can see what I’m talking about.

You should get to 2.25 ppm today - there is no benefit in going slower, and that just lets the disease get a firmer hold on the fish.

 

[Miller Aquatic]

You should get to 2.25 ppm today - there is no benefit in going slower, and that just lets the disease get a firmer hold on the fish.

What do you think those are because I didn’t think ich looked like that normally?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

What do you think those are because I didn’t think ich looked like that normally?

Tough to see clearly. One strong possibility is that this are just globs of skin mucus. Both protozoan diseases and copper can cause excess skin mucus production.

 

[Miller Aquatic]

Tough to see clearly. One strong possibility is that this are just globs of skin mucus. Both protozoan diseases and copper can cause excess skin mucus production.

So I am in a little bit of a stump. I add more and more copper power up to 2.5 and then it drops down to like .6 everytime but I don’t have any media that can absorb it just sponge and bioballs in the hob filter no rock no sand I’m so confused does this happen from the tap water conditioner or what.

 

[Miller Aquatic]

Already 7 copper Hanna tests in and it’s still at .6 this is making me very mad.

 

[Miller Aquatic]

I’m afraid to keep dumping in ml when I’ve already added over 50 ml

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I’m afraid to keep dumping in ml when I’ve already added over 50 ml

Using copper in a tank with lots of calcareous material is problematic - the copper tends to bind with that material, lowering the effective dose. This may be worse in tanks that have a low pH.

 

[Miller Aquatic]

Using copper in a tank with lots of calcareous material is problematic - the copper tends to bind with that material, lowering the effective dose. This may be worse in tanks that have a low pH.

I don’t think I have any calcareous material what are some examples all I have is pvc sponge material plastic bioballs and a wavemaker

 

[Miller Aquatic]

You’d think I had 100 pounds of rock in here but I have none

 

[Jay Hemdal]

You’d think I had 100 pounds of rock in here but I have none

The gravel in your picture of the puffer is calcium-carbonate based - that's what is sucking up the copper.....unless it isn't in that tank now?

 

[Miller Aquatic]

The gravel in your picture of the puffer is calcium-carbonate based - that's what is sucking up the copper.....unless it isn't in that tank now?

No that is the wrong puffer that was just a one for reference because it looked the same and I could get a picture at the time. This is my setup

 

[Miller Aquatic]

This and sponge is the only media