Dr Tim fishless Cycle issues

[Kika]

Hi, is it possible to still observe 2 ppm of ammonia readings on day 12 while using Dr Tim one & only + Ammonium chloride ?

I have followed the instructions they provide. I have never seen nitrite above 1. Last time I dosed ammonia was on day 6, it has bit dropped from 2ppm since then…

This is what I’m using:
RedSea 250
Lights off, only return pump and gyre running.
Dry rocks, life caribsea shapes
40 lbs of fujipink caribsea live sand
RedSea testing kit

I am starting to become impatient, can someone help/advise please ? Thanks in advance

 

[Fish Fan]

I don't think you have anything to worry about here

Despite what it might say on the bottle, the Dr. Tim's is a very good product, but fish-less cycles tend to go about 3 weeks, give or take, so 12 days with high ammonia isn't concerning, in my opinion.

Here's what I would do a this point, and certainly others may have different advice: I'd stop adding the ammonia, you have enough. I'd add a pinch of fish food here because the bacteria you're trying to grow also need a bit of phosphate and an organic carbon source, besides just the ammonium chloride.

You can safely ignore testing for nitrite, it's not a concern in marine aquaria.

I'd watch for your ammonia to drop to *nearly* zero, and at that point I believe you'd be in good shape to slowly start stocking for hardy livestock. I say *nearly* because many of our hobby-level test kits will often report a very low concentration of ammonia when it's likely less.

I hope that helps, please post back with any further questions!

 

[Kika]

I don't think you have anything to worry about here

Despite what it might say on the bottle, the Dr. Tim's is a very good product, but fish-less cycles tend to go about 3 weeks, give or take, so 12 days with high ammonia isn't concerning, in my opinion.

Here's what I would do a this point, and certainly others may have different advice: I'd stop adding the ammonia, you have enough. I'd add a pinch of fish food here because the bacteria you're trying to grow also need a bit of phosphate and an organic carbon source, besides just the ammonium chloride.

You can safely ignore testing for nitrite, it's not a concern in marine aquaria.

I'd watch for your ammonia to drop to *nearly* zero, and at that point I believe you'd be in good shape to slowly start stocking for hardy livestock. I say *nearly* because many of our hobby-level test kits will often report a very low concentration of ammonia when it's likely less.

I hope that helps, please post back with any further questions!

Thank you so much, that’s a relive because they say I should be safe to add fish by day 9, which is obviously not the case for me lol… how many days should I ghost feed for ?

 

[FishLvR]

I don't think you have anything to worry about here

Despite what it might say on the bottle, the Dr. Tim's is a very good product, but fish-less cycles tend to go about 3 weeks, give or take, so 12 days with high ammonia isn't concerning, in my opinion.

Here's what I would do a this point, and certainly others may have different advice: I'd stop adding the ammonia, you have enough. I'd add a pinch of fish food here because the bacteria you're trying to grow also need a bit of phosphate and an organic carbon source, besides just the ammonium chloride.

You can safely ignore testing for nitrite, it's not a concern in marine aquaria.

I'd watch for your ammonia to drop to *nearly* zero, and at that point I believe you'd be in good shape to slowly start stocking for hardy livestock. I say *nearly* because many of our hobby-level test kits will often report a very low concentration of ammonia when it's likely less.

I hope that helps, please post back with any further questions!

Thank you so much, that’s a relive because they say I should be safe to add fish by day 9, which is obviously not the case for me lol… how many days should I ghost feed for ?

Until your tank can convert 2ppm or 4ppm of ammonia overnight.

 

[Fish Fan]

Thank you so much, that’s a relive because they say I should be safe to add fish by day 9, which is obviously not the case for me lol… how many days should I ghost feed for ?

I wouldn't add fish until the ammonia has gone down considerably. Im not a big fan of a fish-in cycles, even when using these bacteria-in-a-bottle products.

When doing a cycle like this, I like and suggest the Dr. Tim's One and Only, it's a good product. But I've come to learn that these bacteria would also benefit from some carbon and phosphate, and the easiest way to do this is to just add some fish food (ghost feeding). I don't think you can really over or under do the fish food (within reason), just add a pinch or so for a few days, and I think it will benefit the cycle.

As mentioned above by @Devisissy, a good "test" for if you tank is ready for livestock would be to add more of the ammonium chloride until the concentration reaches ~2.0 ppm, and then test for ammonia again in 24 hours. When your tank can process ~2.0 ppm ammonia down to *nearly* zero in 24 hours, you should be in good shape to proceed with stocking the tank.

That said, I believe you have added enough ammonium chloride, I wouldn't add any more, and I would suggest that when your ammonia concentration comes down to *nearly* zero, you should be in good shape.

Adding too much ammonia (as is often directed by Dr. Tim's instructions) can result in a longer than necessary cycle, and a frustrated new reefer, and way too much nitrate in the end

I hope this helps!

 

[Dan_P]

Hi, is it possible to still observe 2 ppm of ammonia readings on day 12 while using Dr Tim one & only + Ammonium chloride ?

I have followed the instructions they provide. I have never seen nitrite above 1. Last time I dosed ammonia was on day 6, it has bit dropped from 2ppm since then…

This is what I’m using:
RedSea 250
Lights off, only return pump and gyre running.
Dry rocks, life caribsea shapes
40 lbs of fujipink caribsea live sand
RedSea testing kit

I am starting to become impatient, can someone help/advise please ? Thanks in advance

Dr. Tim’s can be slow to start or it’s a dud bottle. Check the nitrite level to determine if anything is happening. You can add Fritz Turbo Start to get the ammonia consumption established. That product usually starts working within a day or two.

 

[Kika]

Thank you so much, that’s a relive because they say I should be safe to add fish by day 9, which is obviously not the case for me lol… how many days should I ghost feed for ?

I wouldn't add fish until the ammonia has gone down considerably. Im not a big fan of a fish-in cycles, even when using these bacteria-in-a-bottle products.

When doing a cycle like this, I like and suggest the Dr. Tim's One and Only, it's a good product. But I've come to learn that these bacteria would also benefit from some carbon and phosphate, and the easiest way to do this is to just add some fish food (ghost feeding). I don't think you can really over or under do the fish food (within reason), just add a pinch or so for a few days, and I think it will benefit the cycle.

As mentioned above by @Devisissy, a good "test" for if you tank is ready for livestock would be to add more of the ammonium chloride until the concentration reaches ~2.0 ppm, and then test for ammonia again in 24 hours. When your tank can process ~2.0 ppm ammonia down to *nearly* zero in 24 hours, you should be in good shape to proceed with stocking the tank.

That said, I believe you have added enough ammonium chloride, I wouldn't add any more, and I would suggest that when your ammonia concentration comes down to *nearly* zero, you should be in good shape.

Adding too much ammonia (as is often directed by Dr. Tim's instructions) can result in a longer than necessary cycle, and a frustrated new reefer, and way too much nitrate in the end

I hope this helps!

It does help a lot, thank you. My path so far: I dosed on day 1 (kicked off) then on day 3 and 6 as instructed (both ammonia and nitrite where below 2 ppm. Then ammonia hasnt been “stuck on 2ppm since day 2, maybe a little bit less and nitrite has been at 0.05 barely undetected, which is why I thought something went wrong. I’ll ghost feed for couple of days. Thank you kindly

 

[Kika]

Hi, is it possible to still observe 2 ppm of ammonia readings on day 12 while using Dr Tim one & only + Ammonium chloride ?

I have followed the instructions they provide. I have never seen nitrite above 1. Last time I dosed ammonia was on day 6, it has bit dropped from 2ppm since then…

This is what I’m using:
RedSea 250
Lights off, only return pump and gyre running.
Dry rocks, life caribsea shapes
40 lbs of fujipink caribsea live sand
RedSea testing kit

I am starting to become impatient, can someone help/advise please ? Thanks in advance

Dr. Tim’s can be slow to start or it’s a dud bottle. Check the nitrite level to determine if anything is happening. You can add Fritz Turbo Start to get the ammonia consumption established. That product usually starts working within a day or two.

Thank you for the advise. My higher nitrite level was at 1.0 on day 3, the rest has been at 0.05 or 0 at times. Would it be safe to wait a little bit of few days and if nothing changes then add Fritz Turbo? I may order it now as it may take a couple of days to arrive.

 

[Dan_P]

Thank you for the advise. My higher nitrite level was at 1.0 on day 3, the rest has been at 0.05 or 0 at times. Would it be safe to wait a little bit of few days and if nothing changes then add Fritz Turbo? I may order it now as it may take a couple of days to arrive.

No issues with waiting. I interpret the presence of nitrite as Dr. Tim’s will do the job eventually. Add Turbo Start to speed things up only if you are feeling you can’t wait any longer :-)

 

[Kika]

Thank you for the advise. My higher nitrite level was at 1.0 on day 3, the rest has been at 0.05 or 0 at times. Would it be safe to wait a little bit of few days and if nothing changes then add Fritz Turbo? I may order it now as it may take a couple of days to arrive.

No issues with waiting. I interpret the presence of nitrite as Dr. Tim’s will do the job eventually. Add Turbo Start to speed things up only if you are feeling you can’t wait any longer :-)

Sounds good, I can wait, and need to be patience in this hobby it seems like lol… I just wanted to make sure I didn’t do anything work because I have been following the Dr Tim instructions strictly

 

[Kika]

Day 14 test results:
Ph: 8.2 has been at 8 and 8.2 since start, looks very solid
Nh3: 2 ppm
No2: still at 0.05 maybe 0.01 or in between hard to tell…

Started ghost feeding yesterday …

 

[Kika]

Day 14 test results:
Ph: 8.2 has been at 8 and 8.2 since start, looks very solid
Nh3: 2 ppm
No2: still at 0.05 maybe 0.01 or in between hard to tell…

Started ghost feeding yesterday …

Correction: No2: 0.05 or 0.1*** maybe in between, hard to tell… but def seems like a little higher than yesterday

 

[Fish Fan]

Day 14 test results:
Ph: 8.2 has been at 8 and 8.2 since start, looks very solid
Nh3: 2 ppm
No2: still at 0.05 maybe 0.01 or in between hard to tell…

Started ghost feeding yesterday …

I like that you're ghost feeding. Beyond an ammonia source, these bacteria also need an organic carbon source (provided by the food). I think you'll see some changes in your cycle after a few days of adding some fish food

There's no better than @Dan_P replying here, I would give his advise a lot of consideration to say the least

 

[Kika]

Day 14 test results:
Ph: 8.2 has been at 8 and 8.2 since start, looks very solid
Nh3: 2 ppm
No2: still at 0.05 maybe 0.01 or in between hard to tell…

Started ghost feeding yesterday …

I like that you're ghost feeding. Beyond an ammonia source, these bacteria also need an organic carbon source (provided by the food). I think you'll see some changes in your cycle after a few days of adding some fish food

There's no better than @Dan_P replying here, I would give his advise a lot of consideration to say the least

Yea, I followed your advise for the ghost feeding… the only concern I have is that the fish food may spike ammonia levels?

I will follow @Dan_P advise of using turbo start (seems like a product the community use/like a lot, particularly in these scenarios). The question I have is that I just dose turbo start to my tank as it is, or I need to do a water change first ? Also is there any caveat of using this product? I just want to make sure i suffer the consequences later on because of using an speed up product/process if that makes sense.

Thank you kindly

 

[Fish Fan]

Yea, I followed your advise for the ghost feeding… the only concern I have is that the fish food may spike ammonia levels?

I will follow @Dan_P advise of using turbo start (seems like a product the community use/like a lot, particularly in these scenarios). The question I have is that I just dose turbo start to my tank as it is, or I need to do a water change first ? Also is there any caveat of using this product? I just want to make sure i suffer the consequences later on because of using an speed up product/process if that makes sense.

Thank you kindly

I want to be clear, @Dan_P is the expert here. I differ to this reefer's expertise x100!

I hope I haven't misled you myself

 

[Kika]

Yea, I followed your advise for the ghost feeding… the only concern I have is that the fish food may spike ammonia levels?

I will follow @Dan_P advise of using turbo start (seems like a product the community use/like a lot, particularly in these scenarios). The question I have is that I just dose turbo start to my tank as it is, or I need to do a water change first ? Also is there any caveat of using this product? I just want to make sure i suffer the consequences later on because of using an speed up product/process if that makes sense.

Thank you kindly

I want to be clear, @Dan_P is the expert here. I differ to this reefer's expertise x100!

I hope I haven't misled you myself

Hahaha nah, I just wanted to give Dr Tim another good week or so. If ammonia hasn’t drop I will for sure speed up a little bit following @Dan_P advise. I appreciate all the help here !

 

[Fish Fan]

Hahaha nah, I just wanted to give Dr Tim another good week or so. If ammonia hasn’t drop I will for sure speed up a little bit following @Dan_P advise. I appreciate all the help here !

@Dan_P is the guy for sure :-) I would listen to his advice before all others. Very few of us have a 30 year old reef tank driven by an undergravel filter

 

[Dan_P]

@Dan_P is the guy for sure :-) I would listen to his advice before all others. Very few of us have a 30 year old reef tank driven by an undergravel filter

I think you have me mixed up with Lasse or Paul_B with regards to the undergravel filter.

 

[Fish Fan]

I think you have me mixed up with Lasse or Paul_B with regards to the undergravel filter.

Oh, I am sorry, I was indeed thinking of Paul_B who has rocked an under gravel for over 30 years

But you are indeed no slouch yourself sir

Sorry about the mixup!

 

[Dan_P]

Oh, I am sorry, I was indeed thinking of Paul_B who has rocked an under gravel for over 30 years

But you are indeed no slouch yourself sir

Sorry about the mixup!

Glad we sorted things out :-)