Dr Tims one and only

[Walshy5050]

Hi all

Iv just started the fishless cycle with Dr Tims one and only and Dr tims amonia I have a waterbox 100.3 gallon I have placed
400 drops ( 4 drops per gallon ) it is day 2 and I still have 0 amonia is this normal

Thanks

 

[brandon429]

It doesn't matter at all you're fine

To convert this into a testless cycle: add in one ground up pinch of fish food, ground into powder, as the carbon source

Wait ten days, you're cycled, and can't not be cycled which is why it's a testless method we've been using for a long time now in testless cycling threads/40+ pages long

Old cycling science: I might mess up my cycle, causing bacteria adapted for millenia in water to not do their job by day ten and violate the ammonia line from every cycling chart the last forty years (ammonia line from any cycle chart is controlled by day 10 for a known reason)

New cycling science: no, you won't.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hi all

Iv just started the fishless cycle with Dr Tims one and only and Dr tims amonia I have a waterbox 100.3 gallon I have placed
400 drops ( 4 drops per gallon ) it is day 2 and I still have 0 amonia is this normal

Thanks

i would add the drops again, measure right after dosing to check that both the kit and the additive are acting as expected, and then wait for it to decline.

 

[jda]

It is probably Ok, but it does not hurt to do it again. You are talking about live things here and patience is a virtue. Your test kit is not likely super accurate or easy to use the first number of times (API?), so more practice is good too.

Just know that you are not truly cycled. You will have some bacteria that can convert a small/moderate amount of fish waste into no2 and then no3. You can still over do this and add too fast. Go slow and be smart and nearly any method will work. The bacteria does multiply quickly, but fish gills burn even more quickly if you overstock or overfeed at first - and even if the fish do not die, they can suffer and have their lives shortened. The tank is actually cycled when it is more mature and dynamic enough to handle nearly any reasonable addition without a blink... and also when it has denitrifying bacteria to turn no3 into N gas. People like to make up words and terms and talk about new vs old vs whatever but the nitrogen cycle is what it always has been. You are probably in the clear for the first part of the cycle when some film and surface algae starts to appear - the ammonium to nitrite to nitrite part (the rest comes months later).

 

[brandon429]

Post one single incomplete cycle you've ever seen jda as a work thread we can see where too many new additions caused an ammonia crash
(Google furiously to find any api test reading possible)

People like to make up false consequences, and stay out of actual work threads as safety zones= old cycling science.

There are already studies by Dr Reef for the ten day timeframe and Dr Tims omitted here on purpose, so that false risk can be conveyed. Don't leave that out still so nobody can read a relevant actual study

Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact

Call me old school, back in the day we placed a deli shrimp in a tank to kick start the cycle. When tank reached 1.5-2 ppm ammonia we pulled it out and waited sometimes weeks to months for bacteria to colonize and drop ammonia and nitrites down to 0 to make tank safe for livestock. With recent...

www.reef2reef.com

I have 300 pages of cycle work ready for view using Dr Tim and ten days this was known years ago.

 

[brandon429]

why is any of this important, why would it matter if one person says a cycle is ready to reef, and another one doesn't agree?

because knowing when to start fish disease preps, the real risk you face, needs to come after a cycle is closed.

you don't have a risk of losing your fish and early tank stockings to a lack of a cycle, see this thread:

Bio-spira works great

I just started a new tank a little over a week ago. I started with all dry rock and new sand. I added a bottle of Bio-Spira and put fish and coral the same day. Never saw any ammonia and fish and coral seem healthy.

www.reef2reef.com

you are giving feed plus ten days for your reef to be ready, for two small fish...this was eight fish a giant anemone and corals all at once, in one day, because bottle bac is that powerful...see how there isn't a cycling risk? the risk is by adding these animals without prep, you are importing disease that pops up 8 mos later and that doesn't matter how you cycle

the disease forum is chock full of 1-2 month wait cycles still ravaged by disease, because disease control comes independent from the cycle choice = new cycling science. by being advised to wait an arbitrary timeframe for the max bacteria claimed, even though in the study above we see day ten is enough to coat all surfaces (and in the one day fully stocked tank thread above) you are being skipped in being told about disease preps.

the risk to your fish is disease preps not mentioned so far, in the tussle about being ready based on a well-tested already known wait time.

I included an entire reef stocked on day one, with one dose of bottle bac and no ten day wait, to show that you are not at risk of 'tipping' a reef past its ammonia control limits for the type of cycle you employed. what I originally typed to you is just fine, safe, comprises ten years of searchable threads here and it's Jay's disease forum for fallow and quarantine reading you need to be directed to.


There are over a thousand logged seneye cycles on the web, show a calibrated device that didn’t hold baseline nh3 by day ten. One

there are no failed cycles by day ten of any fed + inoculated and carbon-fed display reefs, it’s why none of the charts we can all search agree there’s such a risk.


prediction on file: nobody posts a ten day failed Dr Tims cycle fed by ammonia and fish food *in a reef display tank* link to read in this thread, tracked on a calibrated seneye

it won’t happen in this thread

now that we have the meters to prove it, and they’re logged over a thousand times now, that’s conveniently left out of the warning. There are well enough seneye bottle bac cycles uploaded here and on Facebook for any interested readers to check the prediction and link back but we wont be discussing that truth.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't see any need to make assumptions when verifying that it is cycled is free and quick.

You can cross the street without looking both ways, and nearly always that is fine on my street. Once in a while it isn't OK, and looking makes sense.

 

[Dan_P]

Hi all

Iv just started the fishless cycle with Dr Tims one and only and Dr tims amonia I have a waterbox 100.3 gallon I have placed
400 drops ( 4 drops per gallon ) it is day 2 and I still have 0 amonia is this normal

Thanks

What was the ammonia level immediately after adding the ammonia?

If there is no measurable nitrite, something went wrong.

 

[biom]

Hi all

Iv just started the fishless cycle with Dr Tims one and only and Dr tims amonia I have a waterbox 100.3 gallon I have placed
400 drops ( 4 drops per gallon ) it is day 2 and I still have 0 amonia is this normal

Thanks

Which ammonia test you are using?

 

[Walshy5050]

Iv used 2 different ones salifert and JBL marine.

 

[biom]

Salifert ammonia test is maybe not the best one, there people find it difficult to read or claiming not working at all.
I can say it is quite confusing on the (old) box I have is written Ammonia - NH4 (!), on the reagent bottle inside is written NH3, on the color chart is written NH4+NH3. On the newest box I've seen is written Ammonia -NH3.
No surprise people are wondering if it is measuring ammonia, ammonium or both (in instructions it says both)

 

[biom]

Iv just started the fishless cycle with Dr Tims one and only and Dr tims amonia I have a waterbox 100.3 gallon I have placed
400 drops ( 4 drops per gallon ) it is day 2 and I still have 0 amonia is this normal

400 drops =20ml in 100 gal = 2.6 mg/l NH4/NH3 - big enough concentration to be detected by any test.
But if you want to test your test - take one liter aquarium water put 1 drop of dr.Tim Ammonium chloride, mix it well and measure immediately - it should give > 2 mg/l NH4/NH3

 

[Walshy5050]

Thanks ill give it a try I'm checking the parameters on tge tank to day

Thanks all

 

[Walshy5050]

Well day 8 Amonia 0.5 nitrate I would say 0.1
Nitrite 0

But not realy had a amonia spike yet.

 

[PotatoPig]

If you have Nitrates then your bacteria are working. They’re converting ammonia into nitrites and nitrites into nitrates, this is the only way you can have nitrates.

Maybe don’t add a full bio load on day 1, but you have a functioning bacteria population that’s processing ammonia and nitrites.

 

[Walshy5050]

Should I start ghost feeding the tank would this help
Thanks for the reply

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I still think a second ammonia addition is the thing to test.

 

[Dan_P]

Well day 8 Amonia 0.5 nitrate I would say 0.1
Nitrite 0

But not realy had a amonia spike yet.

Something went wrong, possibly with ammonia addition because 0.5 ppm nitrate corresponds to ~0.1 ppm ammonia added. That is not enough. If you are testing with API nitrate test, there might actually be 0 ppm nitrate.

 

[Dan_P]

Should I start ghost feeding the tank would this help
Thanks for the reply

Nom add ammonia.

 

[Walshy5050]

Something went wrong, possibly with ammonia addition because 0.5 ppm nitrate corresponds to ~0.1 ppm ammonia added. That is not enough. If you are testing with API nitrate test, there might actually be 0 ppm nitrate.

Sorry that should have said
Amonia 0.5ppm nitrate 0.1ppm

Thanks for the replys