Dry Pukani rock

SuncrestReef · Apr 1, 2018

I'm setting up a brand new Reefer 425 XL aquarium for the first time, and I purchased 60 lbs of dry Pukani rock from BRS. Somewhere along the way I read that this rock is free from most hitchhikers and I think I interpreted that to mean it's ready to just put in the tank and start cycling. But now as I'm getting ready to fill the tank with water and get started, I'm starting to read articles saying the rock should be soaked in acid and dried, then cured for weeks before putting it into the tank.

I have already put the rock in my display tank without any prep work and have done a lot of aquascaping along with 80 lbs of Tropic Eden sand, so I'm hoping I don't need to rip it all out and start over because I skipped the step of acid washing/curing. Is it possible to cure the rock in the display tank without the acid wash and start the cycling process? Will it stink us out of the house?? I do have two carbon and GFO reactors plus a biopellet reactor plumbed into my sump if that will help.

It's a little frustrating that there's no definitive guide on how this is supposed to work. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!!!

landlubber · Apr 1, 2018

from my personal experience with the exact same situation you're setting yourself up for the algae issues if you don't cure the rock.

Tallison · Apr 1, 2018

If you watch BRS 52 weeks of reefing it's a great guide on starting from the beginning. You can cure and cycle your tank at the same time I believe but I would hold off on adding livestock till your phosphate is in acceptable range. Frequent water changes will help with the smell and color

ihavecrabs · Apr 1, 2018

I would pull it and at minimum to a bleach bath outdoors for 24 hours, fully dry in the sun, and return to RODI water before starting a cycle.

BRS did a great video on bleach vs acid baths and the results showed nearly the same quality results on PO4 from bleach as acid.

If you decide you can't fully dry the rock in the sun, you can also add a water conditioner to neutralize the bleach.

Just don't have the expectation that after that is all done that you won't still have algae [emoji4].

Idoc · Apr 1, 2018

I cured my pukani 6 weeks in just freshwater with 100% water changes every other day for the first 2 wks. I don't recommend curing and cycling at the same time in your DT. There is going to be some terrible stuff decaying from within the rock that will turn your water orange and really smell.

Now I've seen some others have succeed with just doing a bleach soak and then rinsing and soaking for a well or so in declorinated water. This seems to work well.

I've done muriatic acid washes on other rocks, but don't recommend it for pukani. The acid will eat away alot of the pukani rock.

SuncrestReef · Apr 2, 2018

Does anyone think it would be possible to cure the rock in the display tank using saltwater and running the carbon & GFO reactors to help deal with the smell and water color, do frequent water changes over several weeks, and test frequently for phosphates, ammonia, and nitrates/nitrites?

JDP · Apr 2, 2018

SuncrestReef said:
It's a little frustrating....

It sounds like you are going to have a great system.

Frustration....yeah! Take a pic of you hair now and every year you are in the hobby. Because hair is the real price you pay success.

SuncrestReef · Apr 2, 2018

JDP said:
It sounds like you are going to have a great system.

Frustration....yeah! Take a pic of you hair now and every year you are in the hobby. Because hair is the real price you pay success.

Ha! My hair is already gray from so many years in the IT industry. I'm now retired, and even though reefing may be frustrating, it's so interesting and so much fun so far compared to what I used to deal with battling servers, routers, firewalls, virus outbreaks, and demanding computer users.

Crashjack · Apr 2, 2018

Rinsing it before adding to the display is a good idea. I cured mine in a 100 gal container for around 6 weeks. I also added biospira to help it cycle while curing, and I ran Phosguard for several weeks to help with phosphates. I wouldn’t fool with acid washing and extreme phosphate removal. About 6 months after starting the display, I ended up with 0 nitrates and 0 phosphates, which spawned a nasty dino outbreak that forced me to add nitrates and phosphates to try to get rid of. This isn’t uncommon with dry rock.

I know you hear all this stuff about leaching phosphates, but there are many ways to reduce phosphates if yours run high. I would worry more about phosphates bottoming out and having to fight a dino problem like I had to do.

JDP · Apr 2, 2018

Oh...you were born for this challenge!

“Hi I just bought this computer. Can I upload SQL app to it?”

Please...not trying to be rude, just every time I try to break the rules I get burned...your going to cure the rock one way or the other!

Can be done. NO light in the DT. Cover it with a black cloth and hold it down with air fresheners!;Yuck

BRS-ULM

JDP · Apr 2, 2018

Oh... you were bore for this challenge!

“Hi I just bought this computer. Can I upload the SQL app to it?”

Please...not trying to be rude. Every time I try to break the rules I get burned....your going to cure your rock one way or the other?!?

Can be done. NO light in the DT! Cover it with black cloth and hold it down with air fresheners!;Yuck

BRS-ULM

KJAG · Apr 2, 2018

Would never run a tank full of Pukani without a muriatic acid dip.

Marc88 · Apr 2, 2018

I started my tank with dry Pukani from BRS. You could probably cure it in the DT for a while. I don't see it being an issue if you are diligent with the water changes. Running a GFO reactor may be expensive. I cured mine for about 4 weeks in a brute container after a bleach bath. I had high phosphates for three weeks after that. I used the ULR Hanna phosphate checker to test my rock throughout the process. The phosphate levels were off the charts for a while. I'm still getting some phosphate leach...at least I believe its coming from the rock. Tank has only been running two months though.

rtparty · Apr 2, 2018

I really hate to be that guy especially after seeing your build thread, but you're setting yourself up for major headaches. You've gone through a lot of work and I'd hate to see it crash down because of dry rock.

I know a lot of people love the idea of dry rock (especially those selling it) but it makes this hobby so much harder than it needs to be. With the Fiji ban being lifted, we will hopefully start seeing good live rock again. At a minimum I'd get some true "boat" rock and use that to start the tank. Yes, curing it will stink up the house. Yes, there MIGHT be a bad hitch hiker or two. Yes, most hitch hikers are easy to remove with some patience. You'll be curing for 6+ weeks so plenty of time to hopefully find anything bad. Yes, you'll be much happier when your tank is stable and maturing much quicker than a dry rock setup.

The worst hitch hiker I ever had using true live rock was s polyclad worm that ate snails. With a trap and some time, it was an easy removal. With dry rock, my tank has sucked for 8 months now and I'm done with it. I will never go full dry rock again.

Emerson · Apr 2, 2018

I started a 75 gal DT just over a year ago with 40# of BRS Pukani plus 15# of Tonga plate. I cured the rock for 3 weeks in 2 x 20 gal containers filled with heated saltwater. I did a 100% water change half way through, then rinsed with tap water (hose) and dried out in the sun. It seemed ok, but in retrospect, I think I would have cured it for 6-8 weeks. First, it is pretty smelly, at least until the first water change. Second, I had a couple major battles, first with GHA, then with cyano about 4 months into the setup that took another 3 months to win. I can't say for sure it's because of the rock, but I haven't had an issue like that with regular live rock in previous builds, and sounds like others have had similar experiences. The tank cycled fairly well in a month, (~0 NH4, ~0 NO2, 30ppm NO3), but took about 4-5 months to get NO3<5ppm (i also ran carbon and GFO reactor). A year into the build, I'm very happy with the rock, and my tank is doing great. But... it wasn't without a lot of challenges. Bottom line: IMO you don't need to bleach, but do yourself a favor and don't cut corners on the curing time. I'd suggest you do it in a garage or outside (for smell) and not in your DT for 6-8 weeks. It may save you a lot of grief later.

SuncrestReef · Apr 2, 2018

Thank you to all who have replied so quickly to my question. I appreciate the input.

(the following rant is not based exclusively on those who replied here, but on the many reefing forums and YouTube videos I have been viewing)

This hobby obviously involves nearly infinite numbers of variables that need to be factored in, balanced, and adjusted in multiple combinations in order to achieve a healthy tank. My biggest challenge seems to be finding a definitive source of advice. Everyone seems to have an opinion, and they are all across the board. But because there are so many variables, it’s difficult to know if one person’s opinion (or experience) is accurate for my particular situation. It seems that few people are basing their opinions on actual science with measured and repeatable results, or at a minimum are not explaining the full details of their experience and how they came to their conclusions.

From my research, I believe the dry rock will leach phosphates for several weeks while sitting in saltwater, but it may be possible to filter our the phosphates with either GFO or PhosGuard in a reactor with the return pump running, in addition to possibly growing cheato in the refugium to help absorb the phosphates. Additionally, a carbon reactor and frequent water changes can help with reducing the odors. I have my system set up for fully automated water changes, so this could run in the background with no interaction needed. Lastly, leaving the lights off and even covering the tank to block out ambient light will help avoid algae growth. Once the phosphate levels are under control, I could begin cycling the tank using Dr. Tim's bacteria and start monitoring ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites.

So with all that said, am I still setting myself up for a nightmare if I cure the rock in my display tank as some have predicted, or are those nightmares they experienced due to not following some of the procedures I outlined above?

Sarah24! · Apr 2, 2018

Hi,

If you have followed me at all on here, I’m kinda known as the research girl. I’m very honest and have tons of empathy. I honestly truly believe that if you cure this rock in your tank, you will absolutely regret it. As much work as you have done, (I so commend you also) it will be 50 times harder if you do this shortcut.

I’m sure you love your tank and aquascape. But you can take pictures, of it and rebuild it after your rock cures. You have done an amazing job now I hope you don’t short cut it now. It would be heartbreaking to see you even more frustrated and the chance your could possibly crash your tank, and worse have to totally start over.

This is your tank and your choice, I will support what you do. However, I strongly discourage you from curing the rock in your tank. It will put a nasty odor in your home, and it will cost you even more money because you have to keep changing the water. Not to mention the rock will leach elements for awhile. Please just sleep on your decision and really think it through.

40B Knasty · Apr 2, 2018

SuncrestReef said:
Thank you to all who have replied so quickly to my question. I appreciate the input.

(the following rant is not based exclusively on those who replied here, but on the many reefing forums and YouTube videos I have been viewing)

This hobby obviously involves nearly infinite numbers of variables that need to be factored in, balanced, and adjusted in multiple combinations in order to achieve a healthy tank. My biggest challenge seems to be finding a definitive source of advice. Everyone seems to have an opinion, and they are all across the board. But because there are so many variables, it’s difficult to know if one person’s opinion (or experience) is accurate for my particular situation. It seems that few people are basing their opinions on actual science with measured and repeatable results, or at a minimum are not explaining the full details of their experience and how they came to their conclusions.

From my research, I believe the dry rock will leach phosphates for several weeks while sitting in saltwater, but it may be possible to filter our the phosphates with either GFO or PhosGuard in a reactor with the return pump running, in addition to possibly growing cheato in the refugium to help absorb the phosphates. Additionally, a carbon reactor and frequent water changes can help with reducing the odors. I have my system set up for fully automated water changes, so this could run in the background with no interaction needed. Lastly, leaving the lights off and even covering the tank to block out ambient light will help avoid algae growth. Once the phosphate levels are under control, I could begin cycling the tank using Dr. Tim's bacteria and start monitoring ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites.

So with all that said, am I still setting myself up for a nightmare if I cure the rock in my display tank as some have predicted, or are those nightmares they experienced due to not following some of the procedures I outlined above?

From the video that BRStv did. Bleaching is the safest thing to do and has some gratification to it. You can have a light on your tank. Just don't have one that can grow algae like a regular fluorescent bulb. When I started of a 20g tank. My phosphates were crazy high for 5 months. Not a sign of algae. Soon as I put a T5 w/ Blue Plus and Coral Plus. It reared its ugly face at barely detectable phosphates. You have a lot good advice here. Gather your take on the thimgs that makes sense to do and have fun with your tank, cause one day it could be perfect and you wanted this certain fish, invert, or coral. Then bam! All those precautions you have taken is right out the window. Don't be discouraged when it happens, because it happens. Even to people who have taken every precautions 10x more than you did. Way to many variables in this hobby.

rtparty · Apr 2, 2018

SuncrestReef said:
Thank you to all who have replied so quickly to my question. I appreciate the input.

(the following rant is not based exclusively on those who replied here, but on the many reefing forums and YouTube videos I have been viewing)

This hobby obviously involves nearly infinite numbers of variables that need to be factored in, balanced, and adjusted in multiple combinations in order to achieve a healthy tank. My biggest challenge seems to be finding a definitive source of advice. Everyone seems to have an opinion, and they are all across the board. But because there are so many variables, it’s difficult to know if one person’s opinion (or experience) is accurate for my particular situation. It seems that few people are basing their opinions on actual science with measured and repeatable results, or at a minimum are not explaining the full details of their experience and how they came to their conclusions.

From my research, I believe the dry rock will leach phosphates for several weeks while sitting in saltwater, but it may be possible to filter our the phosphates with either GFO or PhosGuard in a reactor with the return pump running, in addition to possibly growing cheato in the refugium to help absorb the phosphates. Additionally, a carbon reactor and frequent water changes can help with reducing the odors. I have my system set up for fully automated water changes, so this could run in the background with no interaction needed. Lastly, leaving the lights off and even covering the tank to block out ambient light will help avoid algae growth. Once the phosphate levels are under control, I could begin cycling the tank using Dr. Tim's bacteria and start monitoring ammonia, nitrates, and nitrites.

So with all that said, am I still setting myself up for a nightmare if I cure the rock in my display tank as some have predicted, or are those nightmares they experienced due to not following some of the procedures I outlined above?

You can have all the science in the world and it won't matter.* You can follow every precaution and do everything the EXACT same way as someone else that is successful and you won't be. You could also be the one that does it different, becomes successful and no one else can copy for some reason.

*To clarify my first sentence, sometimes things happen in our tanks and no test or number will ever explain it. You could send in an ICP test and the numbers come back spot on and yet, you still can't keep coral alive or get some nuisance issues under control.

That specific rock you have, no one else does. We don't have the slightest clue how much Phosphate is bound up and hidden internally. We don't know how much organic matter is in there waiting to decay and pollute the tank. No acid bath, bleaching or sun drying will ever take care of all of it. You could end up going through 5 gallons of GFO. (There are better options if you have that much phosphate by the way. We can explore those options if you want to take this on.)

I love all things BRS. They are one of the few great companies in this hobby. I'm still a novice after 12 years compared to some but we have seen some seriously bad and shady companies over the years. BRS isn't one of them. However, the dry rock they push so hard has caused A LOT of reefers problems that don't need to exist. I mean they didn't exist when I started this hobby in 2006. Everyone started with true live rock and had mature tanks in 6 or so months. Yes, we still saw hair algae and even dinos here and there. Cyano will always be present as well. But we just didn't see all these issues compared to what we see today.

One thing we always worried about (right or wrong) was a tank becoming dominated by a single strain of bacteria. Most called it old tank syndrome. Now a days we literally start tanks with one or two strains of bacteria. Some try to add diversity with Fiji Mud or live rock from an established system. It works for some and not others.

A year ago I was singing a different tune. I'd never experienced all these issues with dry rock. However, all the dry rock I used was ADDED to an already established tank with great live rock. I'd get a little hair algae but it was easily overcome. The GHA I have now will not budge. (I have a thread on that if you're interested.)

With all that said, it's up to you. It's your tank, money and time. It's your home that will stink for a little bit. Can your family and spouse live with that? Are you really ready for 100% water changes weekly, maybe bi-weekly? That gets expensive with salt. A Brute garbage can is cheap and you will use far less water and salt to do water changes. My favorite system I used to cure rock was an old beat up tank that I put a skimmer in with the rock and let it cure for 2-3 months. This accelerated the curing process and helped with smell to some degree.

For $200 you can get a 44lb box of Fiji Pukani live rock. It should cure in 3-4 weeks and will bring a diversity you will never see with dry rock. This is the route I'm going with on my 120g upgrade. I'm going back to what works. Call me old school even. I've seen this hobby become so much harder than it needs to be. We, as a hobby, are solving problems we created. I just don't see the logic behind that personally.