Dying Pagoda Cup

[vetteguy53081]

Ive seen coral come back from worse. A good aid in healing if there is a chance is Brightwell " RESTOR ". Works like wonders

 

[HB AL]

My reef guy just told me that there is no saving it at this point. Would everyone agree with that?

I would give it an iodine dip IMMEDIATELY. If the issue that caused its decline is rectified and it’s still has some areas that are alive it can absolutely be saved and start regrowing from the live sections that are left. I would not give up on it. I’ve had corals from softies to acro’s come back from just a tiny area that survived whatever killed the rest. If you can tell the sections that are 100% dead from ones that still have some life cut off the dead sections and just keep the live pieces no matter how small.

 

[Rick.45cal]

No. Just water changes, glass and sand cleaning. He did add a bag of carbon in the sump area a couple of times.
Is a Reef Test Kit a good source for getting the proper measurements? My reef guy says he doesn't trust them.

I’m not familiar with that test kit. I use salifert test kits for KH (carbonate hardness), Calcium, Magnesium, NO3 (nitrate) and PO4 (Phosphate). They are worth the investment.

If there is any tissue left the coral can come back, so I wouldn’t give up but it will take a long time to grow back. It’s pretty far gone

 

[MnFish1]

My reef guy just told me that there is no saving it at this point. Would everyone agree with that?

I dont know if this would work- but if you fragged it(and Im not sure you can do it with this type of coral (ie take cut off the dead parts and keep the living area only) you could also dip the new piece -

 

[DMG Reef]

Based on the picture, your coral can recover IF the problem is solved to its satisfaction. Unfortunately, when we don't test our own water, we can't identify parameter swings. You're missing an element of control that's necessary in troubleshooting an issue. I see live tissue in the center of the piece as well as many polyps in the dead-looking areas. This coral is not a goner yet, but I would say that something has definitely changed to make him so unhappy. You don't feel that anything has changed in the tank, but your Pagoda is disagreeing with you.

When I set up a 2nd tank, I moved my turbinaria into the new tank. Within a few weeks, tissue started peeling off. I moved it back into my main display and it completely recovered and regenerated the lost tissue. So I waited another month before moving it again. Tank was still too new, and algae started growing on its corallites. So I moved it back into main tank again. My hermit crabs cleaned off the algae and it recovered a second time.

My pagoda does fine in low light, high light, low flow, high flow - as long as the water parameters are acceptable. At the very least, you should be testing your alkalinity every day to confirm that it's stable.

I know you trust your reef guy, but occasional testing isn't going to save your prize coral. No need to frag it, you just need to make sure it's environment is stable so that it can recover. Good luck!

 

[Jo Hedges]

To me, this has moved way too fast to be water issues. But please let me know your thoughts. Attached pictures are the progression of decline from Aug 2018 to now (yes, only 5 months). First pic (profile pic) is from Aug 2018. 2nd is from early October, 3rd late October, 4th November, 5th December, 6th January.

 

[Jo Hedges]

You don't feel that anything has changed in the tank, but your Pagoda is disagreeing with you

This is exactly why I think this decline is from the Aptasia X. So now I fear that I can't save it if this really is the case. How can I stop the decline if this stuff is what is killing it?

Also... if my reef guy tells me I can't trust the test kits I have, what should I be using to test my own water?

thanks so much!!

 

[MnFish1]

To me, this has moved way too fast to be water issues. But please let me know your thoughts. Attached pictures are the progression of decline from Aug 2018 to now (yes, only 5 months). First pic (profile pic) is from Aug 2018. 2nd is from early October, 3rd late October, 4th November, 5th December, 6th January.

This makes it much more clear than the first pic you posted.... WOW. In some of the pics it looks there is real tissue loss between most of the polyps - in others it looks like its all purple (and I mean the later ones). I just had an experience with a coral in my tank - a GSP that is over 7 years old - and usually has polyps that are almost an inch long. My alkalinity rose due to me deciding to lower the temp in the tank - which slowed growth - which decreased alkalinity usage which resulted in a large increase in alkalinity. The polyps did not open for over 2 weeks until the alk dropped from approximately 10 to 7.5 - now its almost back to normal. I guess the point is - changes can do this - and things can come back. To me this looks like a problem that is 'spreading' locally on the coral - and I'd consider fragging it

 

[MnFish1]

PS - Aptasia X is supposedly safe for coral polyps and doesnt affect chemistry or surrounding corals. I thought it was some kind of strong alkali - perhaps mixed with super glue or something that causes it to immediately sting/kill the aptasia without affecting surrounding things - and that if some of the chemical gets into the water its immediately made harmless. But - again I'm not an expert on aptasia X - here is some info from the product page:

https://www.redseafish.com/reef-care-program/aiptasia-x/

 

[MnFish1]

PPS - have you measured the PO4 in the tank - some people have mentioned this. Are all your other corals doing well - or are all of them having problems. I would think that if this was a PO4 problem -it would be affecting everything

 

[DMG Reef]

This is exactly why I think this decline is from the Aptasia X. So now I fear that I can't save it if this really is the case. How can I stop the decline if this stuff is what is killing it?

Also... if my reef guy tells me I can't trust the test kits I have, what should I be using to test my own water?

thanks so much!!

I use Salifert test for alkalinity.

Aiptasia-X didn't kill any of my corals but I did lose 2 cleaner shrimp so I was a little suspicious that it was totally reef safe. Just can't say for sure.

I usually frag corals with no hesitation but turbinaria is a whole different thing. It's so thick and strong that you can't just snap it apart like a monti cap. Mine would require a power saw to cut it in half. So I just leave it alone and keep making more room for it as it grows.

If conditions are good, it will regenerate the tissue without having to cut it up and lose 17 yrs. of growth.

 

[MnFish1]

I use Salifert test for alkalinity.

Aiptasia-X didn't kill any of my corals but I did lose 2 cleaner shrimp so I was a little suspicious that it was totally reef safe. Just can't say for sure.

I usually frag corals with no hesitation but turbinaria is a whole different thing. It's so thick and strong that you can't just snap it apart like a monti cap. Mine would require a power saw to cut it in half. So I just leave it alone and keep making more room for it as it grows.

If conditions are good, it will regenerate the tissue without having to cut it up and lose 17 yrs. of growth.

I agree it might - but - conditions were good when it started having this problem (we think)? I guess what I've heard is that coral tissue (ie the polyp/soft part) doesn't grow back onto dead skeleton - instead - it creates new skeleton over the old dead skeleton - so speed-wise wouldn't it grow just as fast if fragged?

 

[DMG Reef]

I agree it might - but - conditions were good when it started having this problem (we think)? I guess what I've heard is that coral tissue (ie the polyp/soft part) doesn't grow back onto dead skeleton - instead - it creates new skeleton over the old dead skeleton - so speed-wise wouldn't it grow just as fast if fragged?

I see what you mean, but my pagoda definitely grew the tissue back over the dead skeleton. I can only base my advice on what I've experienced. It had die-off spreading through and around the corallites like a river. It completely healed within weeks after being removed from the hostile environment.

I'll look for pics to see if that might help.

 

[MnFish1]

I see what you mean, but my pagoda definitely grew the tissue back over the dead skeleton. I can only base my advice on what I've experienced. It had die-off spreading through and around the corallites like a river. It completely healed within weeks after being removed from the hostile environment.

I'll look for pics to see if that might help.

Nice - what do you think caused the problem

 

[DMG Reef]

Nice - what do you think caused the problem

In my instance, I had moved the pagoda into a second tank I set up in Sept. The tank was still too new and the pagoda started to recede until I moved it back into my stable, 5-yr. old tank.

 

[DMG Reef]

I found a few pics of the damage.

This was Dec. 7:

This was last week:

 

[MnFish1]

Funny thing is - that to It looks like the central area is worse - and the outer areas are improved?

 

[DMG Reef]

Funny thing is - that to It looks like the central area is worse - and the outer areas are improved?

It's definitely a process, it hasn't completely repaired itself. But I feel like the OP's pagoda can get better rather than continuing it's decline if she can identify and correct the issue. They are pretty hardy corals in the right conditions.

 

[Jo Hedges]

I would give it an iodine dip IMMEDIATELY.

Any instructions on the iodine dip?

 

[Jo Hedges]

Do you have the coral on the sand bed or do you have a sand bed? If so move the coral up off the sand bed and give it good flow. The coral loves good flow across it. Has you coral always been contracted.
Mine is a super bright Green and bushy.

I have a sand bed but it's always been propped up on rocks with good water flow. It's usually always open and bushy. Almost never contacted.