I have been fighting this for a few months. The stuff in the sand seems to clump and is very hard to vacuum because it is as heavy as the sand. I have used Red slime remover, with not much help. My nutrients are Nitrates 12 Phosphates .06 Salinity 35 Alkalinity 9.6. I am dosing Red Sea four part and have been happy with tank for years. Coral do not seem to be affected much. Tangs do not seem to eat it. My clean up crew do not seem to live very long. My sand sifting starfish looked like something was biting it. Can someone help me please?
Dynos or Cyano?
- Thread starter soccersw
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Just to be sure: It's not a digital one is it? It's a classical compound microscope like you may have had in school, right?
I'm asking because digital microscopes often don't have the required magnification or resolution capabilities.
You won't regret the purchase, microscopy in combination with a reef tank is pretty fun: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/microscopy-thread.1138845/
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There should be a 20x and a 40x objective together with 10x eye piece. These will probably work best for the identification. It doesn't matter much that it's cheap, it will probably do just fine
Tag me once you have some images, I'm curious what you will find! You are also welcome to post your findings in my microscopy thread if you want.
Side note:
2000x is just marketing.
You won't be able to go much further than 1000x with light microscopy. Yes, if you have a 100x objective and a 20x eye piece you theoretically should end up with 2000x, but the image will be too dark to be useful and the resolution won't increase beyond 1000x making it like a "digital zoom" which doesn't provide more information. The wavelength of visible light simply won't allow for higher resolution.
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slingfox
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I posted my experience in the thread above where I outline my experience dealing with this kind of green toxic growth on the sand bed for the last six weeks. I am on day 3 of removing the patches of sand with green growth and top dressing with ocean live sand from Tampa Saltwater. So far the sand looks immaculate with no signs of the green algae. Notably, during the first there were small patches of sand in remote areas of the reef scape. I mixed those areas up so they came into more contact with the TBS sand. It is day 3 now and no sign of algae regrowth. The sand is basically complex clear!
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Thank you for all your information. I didn't get a microscope with imaging. I will share the information, if I can match what I see to a known strand or algae.There should be a 20x and a 40x objective together with 10x eye piece. These will probably work best for the identification. It doesn't matter much that it's cheap, it will probably do just fine
Tag me once you have some images, I'm curious what you will find! You are also welcome to post your findings in my microscopy thread if you want.
Side note:
2000x is just marketing.
You won't be able to go much further than 1000x with light microscopy. Yes, if you have a 100x objective and a 20x eye piece you theoretically should end up with 2000x, but the image will be too dark to be useful and the resolution won't increase beyond 1000x making it like a "digital zoom" which doesn't provide more information. The wavelength of visible light simply won't allow for higher resolution.
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I will keep an eye out for how your's is going. I guess you have taken away the light and provided beneficial bacteria to the system. Sounds like a good idea. Do I have the general Idea of what you are doing?
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There should be a 20x and a 40x objective together with 10x eye piece. These will probably work best for the identification. It doesn't matter much that it's cheap, it will probably do just fine
Tag me once you have some images, I'm curious what you will find! You are also welcome to post your findings in my microscopy thread if you want.
Side note:
2000x is just marketing.
You won't be able to go much further than 1000x with light microscopy. Yes, if you have a 100x objective and a 20x eye piece you theoretically should end up with 2000x, but the image will be too dark to be useful and the resolution won't increase beyond 1000x making it like a "digital zoom" which doesn't provide more information. The wavelength of visible light simply won't allow for higher resolution.
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Ostreopsis sp. (Dinoflagellates)There should be a 20x and a 40x objective together with 10x eye piece. These will probably work best for the identification. It doesn't matter much that it's cheap, it will probably do just fine
Tag me once you have some images, I'm curious what you will find! You are also welcome to post your findings in my microscopy thread if you want.
Side note:
2000x is just marketing.
You won't be able to go much further than 1000x with light microscopy. Yes, if you have a 100x objective and a 20x eye piece you theoretically should end up with 2000x, but the image will be too dark to be useful and the resolution won't increase beyond 1000x making it like a "digital zoom" which doesn't provide more information. The wavelength of visible light simply won't allow for higher resolution.
And detritus... Weird color for Ostreopsis though. Usually they are brown but without the microscope it looks green. Have you tried getting a single sand grain under the scope?
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I'm sure AI is wrong in this case. It's Ostreopsis. It has a pointy end and not a "beak" or "nose" like Amphidinium has. It also tries to move in circles around a point in the distance which the tip points towards, but in your video the cells struggle to do this as they crash into each other
(Ostreopsis sp. from my initial microscopy thread post)
(Amphidinium cells from post #3 in my microscopy thread)
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I can't figure out why they don't return to sump. They stay in the sand continually. Lights on or off.I'm sure AI is wrong in this case. It's Ostreopsis. It has a pointy end and not a "beak" or "nose" like Amphidinium has. It also tries to move in circles around a point in the distance which the tip points towards, but in your video the cells struggle to do this as they crash into each other
(Ostreopsis sp. from my initial microscopy thread post)
(Amphidinium cells from post #3 in my microscopy thread)
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It's normal that not all of them migrate into the water column at night, but usually a difference will be visible between day and night.I can't figure out why they don't return to sump. They stay in the sand continually. Lights on or off.I'm sure AI is wrong in this case. It's Ostreopsis. It has a pointy end and not a "beak" or "nose" like Amphidinium has. It also tries to move in circles around a point in the distance which the tip points towards, but in your video the cells struggle to do this as they crash into each other
(Ostreopsis sp. from my initial microscopy thread post)
(Amphidinium cells from post #3 in my microscopy thread)
If that's not the case it could be possible that there is something in the substrate that provides even more energy than photosynthesis. The green color is really odd, considering the cells themselves are not discolored and still brown. I could imagine some other algae is growing on the substrate. If you have a low magnification objective such as 4x or 5x, you could try looking at a grain of sand. Maybe green hair algae is growing on it causing the coloration? Then dinoflagellates would just be secondary and a green hair algae is the main issue. Green cyano would be another possibility. Cyanos are a bit harder to see under a microscope. They should look like hairs to you.
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I truly believe you have been correct on identifying the Dino's. I ran another better image into AI and it agreed at 90 percent. Not that I am trying to get AI to agree, Lol I started dosing Microbacter7 at night. I am going to put a hang on UV sterilizer 24 watt in the display tank. I also am putting some carbon in to try and absorb the toxins. My nitrates are at 13 and phosphates are at .09. I will try and keep this up. I think like you said some of this is algae, cyano, etc. The tank does not seem to be suffering too much. Corals look good. The clean up crew seems lethargic. Do you have any other suggestions? Should the Microbacter7 help with algae, etc.?
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I'm spending quite a lot of time behind a microscope and Amphidinium, Coolia, Ostreopsis, and Prorocentrum are the commonly observed reef tank dinoflagellates. After a while you know what to look for
AI fails me quite often when I try to identify something even with high quality images. Sometimes it pushes you into the right direction, other times it misleads you
I don't know your tank size, just make sure the UV sterilizer fits the volume and you push sufficient (but not too much) water through it each hour. Too slow, and it won't sterilize enough water, too fast and the UV light won't have enough time do its job.
This might be a good safety measure and will get rid of organics which might be one of the factors causing Dinos. It won't save your CUC though as they are probably eating it all the time
Without any algae issues these parameters would be fine, but since there appears to be a lot of growth it can make sense to reduce nutrients. I know dinos are often associated with bottoming out nutrient levels, but it's not fully clear if they are a symptom of this, or the cause. The topic is quite controversial, but in my opinion it makes sense to try bringing nutrients down first, and if that makes it worse you can add nutrients by dosing ammonia and/or phosphate with DIY solutions you can find on R2R.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-phosphate-dosing-recipe.1109919/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-ammonia-dosing-for-low-nitrate-systems.987087/
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vetteguy53081
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I see cyano all the way and cyano blooms typically happen when phosphate, nitrate and other organic compound levels are too high where there are areas with little flow, detritus builds up and becomes a base for cyano. Water changes are important unlike what the perception of not doing one which reduces the organic content that feeds cyano.I have been fighting this for a few months. The stuff in the sand seems to clump and is very hard to vacuum because it is as heavy as the sand. I have used Red slime remover, with not much help. My nutrients are Nitrates 12 Phosphates .06 Salinity 35 Alkalinity 9.6. I am dosing Red Sea four part and have been happy with tank for years. Coral do not seem to be affected much. Tangs do not seem to eat it. My clean up crew do not seem to live very long. My sand sifting starfish looked like something was biting it. Can someone help me please?
Some of the most common causes include:
- Protein skimmer which fills water with air bubbles which form from the reaction chamber allow dissolved organic compound molecules stick to them. Foam forms at the surface of the water and is then transferred to the collection cup, where it settles as skim-mate. When a protein skimmer is ineffective or absent or cant keep up with the tank, the air bubbles created might be insufficient and can trigger this outbreak .
- Using Aminos can actually feed cyano.
- Overstocking / overfeeding, your tank with nutrients is often causes cyano
- Adding live rock that isn’t completely cured will be a breeding ground for this red slime .
- If you don’t change your water regularly, you’ll soon have this red substance as regular water changes dissolve nutrients which support cyano
- Using water high in nitrates or phosphates are a base for cyano. . . . . Tap water is an example of po4 and no3 introduction.
- Inadequate water flow is often a chief cause of cyano as slow moving water combined with excessive dissolved nutrients creates red slime algae
I recommend to reduce white light intensity or even turn them off for 3-5 days. Add liquid bacteria daily for a week during the day at 1.5ml per 10 gallons. Add Hydrogen peroxide at night at 1ml per 10 gallons. Add a pouch of chemipure Elite which will balance phos and nitrate and keep them in check.
After the 5 days, add a few snails such as cerith, margarita, astrea and nassarius plus 6-8 blue leg hermits to take control.
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