Ebay

[Emc]

I buy a lot of items from Ebay and never realized that an item could be withdrawn from Ebay after the auction ended and payment made. I found this out this until recently when Sea Treasures withdrew an item after I won it and payment was made through a paypal request.

Initially I assumed it was a mistake and figured it would be shipped in good faith. It arrived today but they sent three zoa polyps rather than the chalice frag I purchased.

I'll be much more hesitant in the future to use Ebay.

 

[ofblong]

I would send a complaint to paypal and ebay saying item sent was not the item you bid on. Get your money back.

 

[Reef Pets]

Thats a bunch of crap! Sounds like the seller is jerking you around. I would demand to receive your payment to be returned. That is completely against EBay rules. You can contest your payment through Paypal stating that it item your received was significantly misleading and not as discribed.

Of course before taking such actions email the seller and allow them the chance to correct the issue.

 

[Emc]

Here's Ebay's message to me. I can't even leave feedback for this guy.


[FONT=Arial, Verdana]Hello xxxx (I removed my email address),

We're writing to let you know that the listing for the following item you bid on has been removed:

320328483368 - Magellanic Cloud Chalice - Live Coral

We strongly recommend that you do not complete this purchase. Purchases of items listed on eBay but then completed outside of eBay are extremely risky. They are not covered by eBay buyer protection programs and are highly susceptible to fraud.

For more information on offers to buy or sell outside of eBay, please go to:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/rfe-spam-non-ebay-sale.html

***If You Have Already Paid Using PayPal***
If you have already paid for this item but have not received it, please remember these important steps:
- A buyer has 45 days after the date of the payment to open a dispute.
- A dispute can be escalated to a claim within 20 days from when the dispute was filed.
- Buyers must wait at least 7 days from the date of payment to escalate a dispute for an item not received, unless the dispute is for $2,500 USD or the equivalent or more.
- If the dispute is not escalated to a claim within 20 days, PayPal will close the dispute. A closed dispute cannot be reopened or escalated to a PayPal claim.
- When the 20-day deadline is approaching, PayPal will remind you by email and in the "Resolution Center."

You can learn more about the PayPal Dispute Resolution process by reviewing step-by-step tutorials found in the Resolution Center after logging into PayPal.com.


***If You Have Already Paid Using a Source Other Than PayPal***
- If you paid by Western Union or MoneyGram, contact the company directly (Western Union 800-325-6000 or MoneyGram 800-926-9400).
- Contact your bank to stop payment if you paid by check.
- Contact your credit card company if you paid by credit card.
Our goal is to keep eBay safe so you can buy confidently. It's rare that something goes wrong with a transaction on eBay. Whenever these events do occur, we try to help as much as possible to resolve the issue.

This is an automated response, so please don't reply to this message. If you still have questions, please click the "Contact Us" link at the right of the eBay Help pages.

Thank you for your understanding.

Sincerely,

eBay Trust & Safety team


H30073
[/FONT]

 

[Emc]

Ebay is taking the position that this was an item completed outside of Ebay and therefor there is no Ebay protection.

 

[oceaninabox]

Im a 12 year ebay veteren and dont believe they can do that. eBay has very ridgid rules about such things. Now if the owner states that the item was broken or something like that then ebay may be forgiving, but once a transaction is complete....it's complete. See the link.... http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/item-not-received.html

 

[oceaninabox]

If ebay cancelled the item and you contacted the seller to proceed to finalize the transaction anyways, then ebay is correct and you would fall out of protection.

 

[Emc]

Perry,

Ebay didn't send me this notice until AFTER the transaction was completed.

Unfortunately, I missed a red flag when the seller refunded the first payment I made through Ebay and sent me a request for payment through paypal. At the time I did not know the item had been withdrawn (who would have thought it could be withdrawn after the auction was completed?) and didn't think anything of it.

I don't see anything on point in the link you posted?

Erin

Actually, I just reviewed the email from both the seller and Ebay. I did not recieve the notice from Ebay until Jan 7. The notice from the seller to use the pp request was sent through Ebay on January 1. Apparently, an item can be withdrawn AFTER the auction is completed.

 

[Acroholic]

I saw that auction for that chalice but didn't bid when I saw the Seller.

Those people at Sea Treasures (Pennsylvania, right?) are crooks. They pulled the same scam on me last year with a three frag purchase that they never shipped. Paypal credited my account and I won the dispute. They told me the same BS story about completing the sale outside of ebay, because I asked Sea Treasures to double size one frag at twice the winning bid.

PM me if you want to discuss this. I would call PayPal and get a supervisor on the phone. I'll give you my PP case number if you want for ammunition for your case to show these jerks have a documented history of theft.

Hopefully, you funded your PayPal purchase with a Credit Card. What these scumbags are counting on is that they can document that you received something because they shipped you something. But with a CC purchase you can file a chargeback if the item is of lower quality or significantly not as described.

If you funded this purchase thru a bank account, then you don't have many options. Take a lesson from it and never buy anything using PayPal that is not funded thru a credit card. It is your only real protection using PayPal.
Dave

 

[Emc]

Those people at Sea Treasures (Pennsylvania, right?) are crooks. They pulled the same scam on me last year with a three frag purchase that they never shipped. Paypal credited my account and I won the dispute. They told me the same BS story about completing the sale outside of ebay, because I asked Sea Treasures to double size one frag at twice the winning bid.

PM me if you want to discuss this. I would call PayPal and get a supervisor on the phone. I'll give you my PP case number if you want for ammunition for your case to show these jerks have a documented history of theft.

Hopefully, you funded your PayPal purchase with a Credit Card. What these scumbags are counting on is that they can document that you received something because they shipped you something. But with a CC purchase you can file a chargeback if the item is of lower quality or significantly not as described.

If you funded this purchase thru a bank account, then you don't have many options. Take a lesson from it and never buy anything using PayPal that is not funded thru a credit card. It is your only real protection using PayPal.
Dave

Dave, it is the same seller. I lodged a complaint with pp and received a response. PP won't cover it (as you suspected) because they actually shipped me something. Ebay won't cover it because the item was removed. I did use a PP Buyer account but I have other resources at hand. I'm local to this company. I have the address and I'm an attorney. I can't stand being taken advantage of and obviously these guys are recidivists. I've given them 24 hours to refund the money. If its not back in my account within 24 hours I'll handle it legally. It will be fun.

 

[Reef Pets]

What is the sellers actual ID so that we can avoid them? I looked at seastreasures and that does not seem to be there ID.

 

[Emc]

waltr8121972 but the account is no longer active. Apparently they have changed user names several times on Ebay according to a member of my club.

 

[Hypertek99]

Did you try to contact seatreasures?? What did they say about all this??

 

[Acroholic]

Sounds like you'll get it handled. If you need any help at all just let me know.
Dave

 

[mikedelgado]

sounds like they need a good beat down

 

[Emc]

Did you try to contact seatreasures?? What did they say about all this??

I sent them an email. No response as of yet. I was unable to locate the Sea Treasures website.

Clearly, they know what they did. There are to many steps involved to consider it anything less than intentional. It seem slike an awful lot of work for them to go through for a small amount of money though.

 

[Mr.Firemouth]

I personally hate Paypal and Ebay!
I hardly ever use them unless I know the person I am PP with.
Ebay auctions suck, IMO. Mainly because most corals I really want do not have a "Buy Now" option and then I reach a price that I feel to be fair, and then it triples due to the automatic bid system. That system sucks IMO for buyers as it will drive the price up between 2-3 auto bidders. Now if you had to log on and raise your bid manually then you might not be able to raise the bid over and over again(which IMO if you are going to bid something you should be present to do it.) I also am unsure if people would bid higher and higher for an item if they understood that the opposing bidders has no intention of backing down. That is obvious at a live auction. You can see your opponents intent by how he/she is bidding. I have yet to use the auto bid(bid max bid) and win something at a lower price.(at least IME)

Paypal are crooks too. They make money whether or not you get what you want thru their fees. I have seen sellers get robbed by people making fraudulent disputes, claiming that stuff isn't what they purchased when it really is. And also I have seen sellers rob buyers like in this case. This seller is creep in a half. How desperate are you that you have to scam somebody? I really believe crimes in this country should have much more painful consequences!

I look at most auctions as a waste of time anymore as I hardly ever win them for the price I am willing to spend. I do use the "Buy Now" option often though.

I am curious, what was the sellers ratings and feedback before you purchased with them?

The other thing is sniping! My buddy is a dirt bag that sells stuff on ebay. Instead of using a reserve for an item he will use his girlfriend to enter a Max auto bid for $100. To get the item you have to beat her. If you don't he keeps the item and puts it up again. She and he are just out the Paypal transfer fees. If he wants $50 that is her max bid, he basically knows how much he wants and then makes someone beat him for that price to get it. If he is doing it, how many others are too? And what is with 9***7 for usernames? Why don't they want people to know who other people are?

Also, people use different account names, but Payapl and Ebay should track violators thru their bank accounts. Not many people will open new bank accounts over and over to log onto ebay or PP. There should be a way to authenticate who you really are and not be able to get around that. Big reason criminals commit crimes is accountability. How much trouble will this guy get in? How much will it cost you or someone else like me to get the guy in trouble?

This topic really happens a lot, people just don't complain publicaly as much.

 

[gparr]

Rich, that would be "creep and a half," i.e., half more than a full creep. ;)

I agree with you. I've heard too many horror stories about e-bay and PayPal and don't trust them/won't use them. I had a PayPal account briefly, then started getting those phishing e-mails. I almost got suckered because I thought it was legitimate. I called PayPal and told them to completely remove me from their system. It took a few months, but the phishing e-mails eventually stopped.

Gary

 

[Emc]

"I am curious, what was the sellers ratings and feedback before you purchased with them"

There wasn't any feedback. I wasn't spending a lot of money so I didn't pay much attention until after the fact. A mistake I won't make twice.

They used to sell under another account which had multiple negative feedback postings. That account was closed. I believe they have had several accounts. I have since located them physically and found several judgments against them and a new business operation.

I generally don't post these things publically unless it is a clear case. I've purchased a lot of items over the internet and there have been cases that were questionable. This was not questionable. I also find it disturbing that an item can be withdrawn after an auction closes and Ebay can wipe thier hands of it.

 

[mak060]

I had the same experience with waltr8121972, but with much less money loss due to me losing bids. I got the same eBay notice after winning and he actually sent the item, but 2-days by UPS. The zoas will die I suspect (about a 2 mm clump of closed tissue). EBay wouldn't relinquish details about why he is no longer a seller. Only by trial and error have I found good sellers (and shippers). Reefer is of course one of the guys who knows what he's doing. I've lost a lot of money with other sellers. Even good farmers sometimes don't know how to ship. Emc, my wife is a lawyer too. Will it be hard to use eBay to track down a seller who flew the coop?