Element Dosing (Fl, Br, B)

[bcarl77]

I am getting started on the "reef moonshiners" method. I would like to be able to create my own dosing solutions for the following Bromine (NaBr), Boron (Borax), and Flouride (NaF) instead of paying to ship me water.

I have found several good threads so far about how much to mix but nothing with the answer I am seeking. Do you have calculations/recipes for these elements that match Andres concentration that he uses in his moonshiners calculator? For example, 35ML of his Bromine solution will raise 5 mg/L Br in 378L, 47ML of his Boron Solution will add 0.5 mg/L of B in 378L, and 38ML of his Fluoride solution would raise 0.5 mg/L in 378L.

I am comfortable mixing and buying the dry powders, just need some assistance on how much of each powder to add to 500ML of water to match his concentrations.

Lastly, do you find it beneficial to be dosing vanadium and rubidium?

Thanks in advance for your help

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I can help make dosing solutions a bit later when I have more time. I would calculate it manually, but perhaps someone knows of a calculator.

Vanadium is needed by many organisms and I'd dose it if low. Rubidium has no known biological requirement in any organism, and I personally would not bother dosing it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

"35ML of his Bromine solution will raise 5 mg/L Br in 378L"

Thus the dosing solution must be 54 g/L bromide

Sodium bromide is 77.6% bromide by weight, so the dosing solution can be made by mixing 70 grams of anhydrous sodium bromide in a liter of water

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No go on the borax.

"7ML of his Boron Solution will add 0.5 mg/L of B in 378L"

Thus the dosing solution must be 27g/L boron

Borax varies a bit, but is most often described at 11.3% boron by weight, so the dosing solution would be made by mixing 239 grams of borax in a liter of water.

That is well above the solubility limit of borax, so perhaps they are not using borax.

Boric Acid Technical Fact Sheet

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If you are not skilled at working with toxic compounds, I'd recommend against DIY fluoride.

"38ML of his Fluoride solution would raise 0.5 mg/L in 378L"

Thus the dosing solution must be 5 g/L fluoride

Sodium fluoride is 45.2 % fluoride by weight, so the dosing solution can be made by mixing 11.1 grams of anhydrous sodium fluoride in a liter of water.

Be very careful with sodium fluoride as it can be quite hazardous and toxic.

https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/US/en/sds/mm/sx0550

Hazard statement(s)
H301 Toxic if swallowed.
H315 Causes skin irritation.
H319 Causes serious eye irritation.

Precautionary statement(s)
P264 Wash skin thoroughly after handling.
P270 Do not eat, drink or smoke when using this product.
P280 Wear protective gloves/ eye protection/ face protection.
P301 + P310 + P330 IF SWALLOWED: Immediately call a POISON CENTER/ doctor.
Rinse mouth.
P302 + P352 IF ON SKIN: Wash with plenty of soap and water.
P305 + P351 + P338 IF IN EYES: Rinse cautiously with water for several minutes.
Remove contact lenses, if present and easy to do. Continue
rinsing.
P332 + P313 If skin irritation occurs: Get medical advice/ attention.
P337 + P313 If eye irritation persists: Get medical advice/ attention.
P362 Take off contaminated clothing and wash before reuse.
P405 Store locked up.
P501 Dispose of contents/ container to an approved waste disposal
plant.

 

[bcarl77]

No go on the borax.

"7ML of his Boron Solution will add 0.5 mg/L of B in 378L"

Thus the dosing solution must be 27g/L boron

Borax varies a bit, but is most often described at 11.3% boron by weight, so the dosing solution would be made by mixing 239 grams of borax in a liter of water.

That is well above the solubility limit of borax, so perhaps they are not using borax.

Boric Acid Technical Fact Sheet

I missed typed this. It should read 47ml of the boron solution would raise 0.5 mg/l in 378L.

 

[bcarl77]

If you are not skilled at working with toxic compounds, I'd recommend against DIY fluoride.

"38ML of his Fluoride solution would raise 0.5 mg/L in 378L"

Thus the dosing solution must be 5 g/L fluoride

Sodium fluoride is 45.2 % fluoride by weight, so the dosing solution can be made by mixing 11.1 grams of anhydrous sodium fluoride in a liter of water.

Be very careful with sodium fluoride as it can be quite hazardous and toxic.

https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/US/en/sds/mm/sx0550

Hazard statement(s)
H301 Toxic if swallowed.
H315 Causes skin irritation.
H319 Causes serious eye irritation.

Precautionary statement(s)
P264 Wash skin thoroughly after handling.
P270 Do not eat, drink or smoke when using this product.
P280 Wear protective gloves/ eye protection/ face protection.
P301 + P310 + P330 IF SWALLOWED: Immediately call a POISON CENTER/ doctor.
Rinse mouth.
P302 + P352 IF ON SKIN: Wash with plenty of soap and water.
P305 + P351 + P338 IF IN EYES: Rinse cautiously with water for several minutes.
Remove contact lenses, if present and easy to do. Continue
rinsing.
P332 + P313 If skin irritation occurs: Get medical advice/ attention.
P337 + P313 If eye irritation persists: Get medical advice/ attention.
P362 Take off contaminated clothing and wash before reuse.
P405 Store locked up.
P501 Dispose of contents/ container to an approved waste disposal
plant.

Perfect, noted for safety

 

[LimestoneCowboy]

I can help make dosing solutions a bit later when I have more time. I would calculate it manually, but perhaps someone knows of a calculator.

Vanadium is needed by many organisms and I'd dose it if low. Rubidium has no known biological requirement in any organism, and I personally would not bother dosing it.

Would you happen to have a handle on mixing up the Manganese solution? Appreciate it. From an earilier post you had, I was doing "
Manganese(II) chloride tetrahydrate is 28% manganese by weight.
Here's a recipe:

Dissolve 1 gram (which contains 280 mg actual manganese) in 2.8 L fresh water. Manganese = 280 mg/2.8 L = 100 mg/l.

But wasn't sure if that matched the concentration used. Thx @Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Would you happen to have a handle on mixing up the Manganese solution? Appreciate it. From an earilier post you had, I was doing "
Manganese(II) chloride tetrahydrate is 28% manganese by weight.
Here's a recipe:

Dissolve 1 gram (which contains 280 mg actual manganese) in 2.8 L fresh water. Manganese = 280 mg/2.8 L = 100 mg/l.

But wasn't sure if that matched the concentration used. Thx @Randy Holmes-Farley

Matching to what?

 

[LimestoneCowboy]

Matching to what?

Sorry, to the RM method, same as above. For a 568L tank, they recommended daily std dosage of .1ug/L is .57ml per day. Thank you @Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[bcarl77]

@Randy Holmes-Farley, outside of the mixing risk and safety concerns with Flouride would you have any concerns using any of the compounds noted above in a reef tank and would find them comparable to a premade branded liquid solution? All solutions would be mixed independently and dosed separately.

I also figured out the Boron (H3BO3) and it would be roughly 50g/L to reach the desired concentration.

 

[xtian]

If you are not skilled at working with toxic compounds, I'd recommend against DIY fluoride.

"38ML of his Fluoride solution would raise 0.5 mg/L in 378L"

Thus the dosing solution must be 5 g/L fluoride

Sodium fluoride is 45.2 % fluoride by weight, so the dosing solution can be made by mixing 11.1 grams of anhydrous sodium fluoride in a liter of water.

Be very careful with sodium fluoride as it can be quite hazardous and toxic.

https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/US/en/sds/mm/sx0550

Hazard statement(s)
H301 Toxic if swallowed.
H315 Causes skin irritation.
H319 Causes serious eye irritation.

Precautionary statement(s)
P264 Wash skin thoroughly after handling.
P270 Do not eat, drink or smoke when using this product.
P280 Wear protective gloves/ eye protection/ face protection.
P301 + P310 + P330 IF SWALLOWED: Immediately call a POISON CENTER/ doctor.
Rinse mouth.
P302 + P352 IF ON SKIN: Wash with plenty of soap and water.
P305 + P351 + P338 IF IN EYES: Rinse cautiously with water for several minutes.
Remove contact lenses, if present and easy to do. Continue
rinsing.
P332 + P313 If skin irritation occurs: Get medical advice/ attention.
P337 + P313 If eye irritation persists: Get medical advice/ attention.
P362 Take off contaminated clothing and wash before reuse.
P405 Store locked up.
P501 Dispose of contents/ container to an approved waste disposal
plant.

What’s the formula to get these numbers? There’s some other stuff I would like to mix up.

Is this acceptable for sodium fluoride?

Sodium Fluoride 1 Pound 1 Bottle

The item for sale is 1 Lb (16 Ounces) of Sodium Fluoride (NaF). Sodium Fluoride is an inorganic chemical compound and a common source of the fluoride ion. Our bottles are made of durable Polypropylene Plastic, which is a natural, translucent, lightweight,

www.loudwolf.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That sodium fluoride is food grade and is fine.

The calculation above was to match a commercial fluid. If that isn’t necessary, one goes about it differently.

 

[xtian]

That sodium fluoride is food grade and is fine.

The calculation above was to match a commercial fluid. If that isn’t necessary, one goes about it differently.

I’m wanting to match several others so was thinking the same formula would work? Couldn’t figure out how you got to the above numbers though.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't have a plug and play formula, but if you post one product you want to use and a dosing solution you want to match, I'll walk through the process step by step.

 

[xtian]

I don't have a plug and play formula, but if you post one product you want to use and a dosing solution you want to match, I'll walk through the process step by step.

Think I got most figured out. But stuck on Selenium. How much can I dissolve in 1L for a dose of .08ml into 378L to raise it .02ug/L.

Selenium

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Think I got most figured out. But stuck on Selenium. How much can I dissolve in 1L for a dose of .08ml into 378L to raise it .02ug/L.

Selenium

This may not work out due to the very low amount of selenium per capsule.

Do you have that bottle in hand? I'm concerned that I cannot tell what form it is in, but the back of the bottle may specify. It impacts how readily one might be able to attain that concentration, and, as shown below, there is a lot of other stuff in the capsules.

Each capsule contains 200 micrograms of selenium.

If you dissolve that in 100 mL of water (will be some undissolved fillers as well), then assuming all the selenium dissolved, the concentration is 200 ug/100 ml = 2000 ug/l = 2 ug/mL.

If you want to increase the concentration in the aquarium by 0.02 ug/L, then you would need to dose 0.01 mL of this stock solution per liter of aquarium water, or 3.78 mL per 378 L.

Since you want to add 0.08 mL instead of 3.78 mL, you want it more concentrated (by a factor of 3.78/0.08 = 47).

Thus, you'd need to dissolve 47 capsules in 100 mL, or 473 capsules in 1 L. It may be a mud of dissolved capsule and fillers.

That does not seem sensible to me, but it might work. If you want to use this product, I'd accept a much lower stock concentration.

 

[xtian]

I don't have the bottle on hand yet. Got the recommendation of this product from another thread post 13.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, that link shows the structure used and it should be pretty soluble. I'd personally not try to make it as concentrated as you suggested. I'd use 1 capsule per 100 ml of DI water.

 

[xtian]

Will do. Is this Rb safe to use?