ICP Test DIY Elements - Going Mad Scientist

[mitch91175]

Well in a couple months, I'm gonna go mad scientist on my tank. Once I am done with the Red Sea program, I want to use my own home made trace elements and dose them based upon ICP testing (yeah I'm gonna do a quarterly ICP test once I start this process). I know there are ready made solutions for everything trace element, but part of the fun is doing it myself (at the same time saving a little $$$ never hurts).

So starting this thread so I can reference later once I start getting in the elements. Below is a list of what I'll want to dose (whether it makes sense to or not ) with the links that I found for making your own trace:

Ideally, this thread can be the one-stop shop for mixing your own trace elements. Will work with the brains of this operation @JimWelsh and @Randy Holmes-Farley to add the necessary formulas below each element below. The idea is to set a standard of 1 liter water per quantity of element to raise 25 gallons a certain level. This way it will be easy for everyone to adjust the DIY elements according to their tank volumes.


NOTE: All formulas are based upon dosing 25 gallons of water

• Alkalinity - DIY Alkalinity
• Boron - DIY Boron (Borax)
• Bromine - DIY Bromine (Sodium Bromide)
• Calcium - DIY Calcium (Calcium Chloride)
  • 1000 ml water to 180 grams increases 1 ppm each 1 ml
• Iodine/Iodide - DIY Iodide (Potassium Iodide)
• Magnesium - DIY Magnesium
• Manganese - DIY Manganese (Manganese Sulfate)
• Molybdenum - DIY Molybdenum - (Sodium Molybdenum)
• Nitrate - Planted Tank Calculator (Potassium Nitrate)
  • 1000 ml water to 1 gram Potassium Nitrate increases 0.01 ppm each 1 ml
• Phosphate - Planted Tank Calculator (Potassium Phosphate)
  • 1000 ml water to 1 gram Potassium Phosphate increases 0.01 ppm each 1 ml
• Potassium - Planted Tank Calculator (Potassium Sulfate)
  • 1000 ml water to 210 grams increases 1 ppm each 1 ml
• Strontium - DIY Strontium Recipe (Strontium Chloride)
  • Brightwell-P formula (1 (mg/L) * 25 (gallons) * 3.785 (liters per gallon) = 94.625 mg of Sr )
  • 1000 ml water to 94.625 grams increases 1 ppm
• Vanadium - DIY Vanadium (Vanadium Pentoxide)

Chromium - (Chromium Potassium Sulfate)
Cobalt -
Copper -
Fluorine/Fluoride -
Iron -
Nickel -
Silicate -
Tin / Stannum -
Zinc -

Questionable to add:
Aluminum -
Barium - (Barium Hydroxide Octahydrate)
Lithium -
Rubidium -
Silver -


Of course I could just buy these already made, but for me part of the adventure will be DIY and the experimentation that comes along with it. Hope not to kill everything in my system

Great articles to read:

My Triton Testing Results: By Randy Holmes-Farley - REEFEDITION

Recently, Triton GmbH in Germany has initiated a method of testing many ions at once for a single price. In the US, that service is coordinated by Unique Corals. For $49 they will send you a couple of tubes to collect a tank water sample, and a prepaid mailer to send the sample back to them...

www.reefedition.com

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

That's a fine endeavor.

I would suggest that there is zero reason to ever dose these as they have no known functional biological role:

Aluminum -
Barium -
Lithium -
Rubidium -
Silver -

 

[drawman]

Following! Will be a nice resource.

 

[GoVols]

I would suggest that there is zero reason to ever dose these as they have no known functional biological role:
Aluminum -
Barium -
Lithium -
Rubidium -
Silver -

............... ;Writing

 

[mitch91175]

............... ;Writing

Figured that you'll like this .

 

[mitch91175]

ATI ICP test was picked up today. Should hopefully have the results in a month or so.

 

[GoVols]

ATI ICP test was picked up today. Should hopefully have the results in a month or so.

Mitch,
Is this test going to be as two part dosing, without your calcium reactor's (elements) media in play?

 

[mitch91175]

Mitch,
Is this test going to be as two part dosing, without your calcium reactor's (elements) media in play?

Will never get rid of my calcium reactor. Just wanting to replace the need for purchasing Ref Sea trace elements with premade elements. Getting some of them in now.

 

[mitch91175]

Mitch,
Is this test going to be as two part dosing, without your calcium reactor's (elements) media in play?

Also, from my understanding on what I've researched regarding calcium reactors, the trace elements necessary for coral aren't provided from the coral skeleton being desolved. Once I get my ICP test back, I'll definitely be able to confirm where I am currently and go from there. Either way I'm definitely going down this path and will utilize the elements I make to supplement my system (regardless if the amount is minimal daily).

It'll help me understand elements in the water better. Always trying to learn more about the hobby and feel this is my next evolution.

 

[mitch91175]

Hey @GoVols I see you already have experience with not dosing trace elements and only running the CaRx from this thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/calcium-reactor-and-trace-elements.324962/

It may be considered overkill with what I'm attempting, but you know more about my system and that as well can be considered overkill with all the equipment I use to help run the system

 

[GoVols]

Hey @GoVols I see you already have experience with not dosing trace elements and only running the CaRx from this thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/calcium-reactor-and-trace-elements.324962/

It may be considered overkill with what I'm attempting, but you know more about my system and that as well can be considered overkill with all the equipment I use to help run the system

lol,
The coral colors did fade over time, when the Red Sea colors were cut off.

Rolling the Tunze cal media for test, seems like a good option for Reborn.

Mitch,
Your reef is looking fantastic!!!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@Randy Holmes-Farley
Side bar:

If your preforming 18% weekly water changes, would you be dosing Strontium and Barium?

Red Sea has those two in their calcium part A / leaving them out of their Color's program, and Tunze cal reactor media is 99% pure.

Thank you

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@Randy Holmes-Farley
Side bar:

If your preforming 18% weekly water changes, would you be dosing Strontium and Barium?

Red Sea has those two in their calcium part A / leaving them out of their Color's program, and Tunze cal reactor media is 99% pure.

Thank you

I would never, ever dose barium. It has no known biological role in any organism.

I personally think strontium is not useful, but at least there are some known organisms that have a need for it so it is worth experimenting with it, if it seems low. That said, it is not likely to be low with that much water change unless calcification is very high (lots of alk and calcium demand).

 

[mitch91175]

lol,
The coral colors did fade over time, when the Red Sea colors were cut off.

Rolling the Tunze cal media for test, seems like a good option for Reborn.

Mitch,
Your reef is looking fantastic!!!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@Randy Holmes-Farley
Side bar:

If your preforming 18% weekly water changes, would you be dosing Strontium and Barium?

Red Sea has those two in their calcium part A / leaving them out of their Color's program, and Tunze cal reactor media is 99% pure.

Thank you

Thanks for the comment about my system. Now that it's starting to grow out, it has me looking around for a larger system. Thinking about going up to a 400g from the 240g I have now. Gonna cost a lot of $$$ though. I have too many SPS in the system so need to figure something out.

Made the mistake of buying way too many SPS and not considering overall growth down the road. If I find a good deal I'll jump on it fast though. Issue I have is I need something no longer than 83". Likely would need to be custom job. Maybe can find a tank builder locally that have better pricing. Size I'm looking at is 83x36x30 (so 388g total).

 

[mitch91175]

Well got back my ICP test and test are the items I'd love to resolve:

These are the elements I'll be using:
Sodium Fluoride
Manganese Sulfate or Manganese (II) Chloride Tetrahydrate
Sodium Bromide

Vanadium (Not sourced at this moment)

What I'd like to do is mix the correct amount to 1 liter of water. Would be great to at least know what amount of each to add to 1 liter of water to increase a 240 gallon aquarium by respective measurements. Definitely need to research before venturing down correcting with home-made trace elements.

@Randy Holmes-Farley and/or @JimWelsh I really need you guys, .

 

[mitch91175]

So lesson learned from dosing and not testing (well at least with any hobby grade test kits).

Everything you read about Salifert Strontium Test Kit, believe lol. I was not getting good readings when using the Salifert Strontium Test Kit. Also showed that I need to dose and since I was getting good growth, I assumed the amount I was dosing was all getting consumed. That is not the case as you can see from my Strontium levels. Good thing is though that even at that high number likely for weeks and continued increasing, It did not affect my SPS. My level is almost 4x times the suggest.

Test kits I used:

• Same for iodine/iodide test (Salifert), useless just plan useless. Enough said.
• Salifert calcium test kit - GOOD
• Salifert Boron - Questionable
• Salifert Magnesium - GOOD
• Salifert Iodine - Terrible
• Salifert Nitrates - Meh

So I won't be really relying on Boron/Iodine/Nitrates? much from any test kit going forward. Once the Mastertronic is released, will definitely want to get it and see if it's better for me going forward.

Dosing Red Sea elements:

• Red Sea Trace Colors A - Iodine (I was being stupid and dosing separately thinking about the Salifert results. Even read everything about it and still decided to check it out. Nothing detrimental occurred in my system even with the levels from the ICP test over a few weeks). Changed to not dosing until next ICP test.
• Res Sea Trace Colors B - Potassium - Dosing based on what I thought was calcium consumption and it worked pretty good at 5.8ml/day. Changed to 4ml/day to account for being slightly high and will see how that goes on next ICP.
• Red Sea Trace Colors C - Iron - Will keep dosing the amount being undetectable at 5ml/day.
• Red Sea Trace Colors D - Minerals - So Red Dea D has Silver, Gold, Vanadium and Tungsten as the main ingredients. All which are showing undectable in the system. Currently dosing 5ml/day but will increase that to 7ml/day.

 

[GoVols]

@mitch91175

What did your nitrates come in with salifert in ppm and how does those readings convert to ppm?

Did they not test your phosphates, or am I just missing that in your spread sheets?

 

[mitch91175]

@mitch91175

What did your nitrates come in with salifert in ppm and how does those readings convert to ppm?

Did they not test your phosphates, or am I just missing that in your spread sheets?

For Nitrate I am using one of those Pinpoint probes. It reads 10PPM so not too accurate if the ICP test are "accurate". Going to get the Mastertronic and see how it compares for Nitrates. When I use the Salifert, I know I have NO3 but with the colors so close at those lower ranges, your guess is as good as mine.

Yeah I do test my PO4, I use a Milwaukee tester it is spot on to the ICP results.

 

[GoVols]

For Nitrate I am using one of those Pinpoint probes. It reads 10PPM so not too accurate if the ICP test are "accurate". Going to get the Mastertronic and see how it compares for Nitrates. When I use the Salifert, I know I have NO3 but with the colors so close at those lower ranges, your guess is as good as mine.

Yeah I do test my PO4, I use a Milwaukee tester it is spot on to the ICP results.

I saw one of Jonas post on the Facebook users members forum...

(Needed to asked him a question anyways, and he responded back in a matter of hours.)

...His calcium and nitrates were nailing his ICP reports with the Mastronic.

I'm not buying one, but wonder how soon he'll have it in production.

 

[GoVols]

Yeah I do test my PO4, I use a Milwaukee tester it is spot on to the ICP results.

Is this what your using for PO4?

Mi412 Low Range Phosphate Photometer - Milwaukee

The Milwaukee MI412 Low Range Phosphate Photometer is very simple to use and will give you readings on a large, easy to read LCD screen. The MI412 gives super fast results with a very high level of accuracy with the ability to give reproducible readings. Large LCD Display Reliable, Repeatable...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[JimWelsh]

Well got back my ICP test and test are the items I'd love to resolve:

These are the elements I'll be using:
Sodium Fluoride
Manganese Sulfate or Manganese (II) Chloride Tetrahydrate
Sodium Bromide

Vanadium (Not sourced at this moment)

What I'd like to do is mix the correct amount to 1 liter of water. Would be great to at least know what amount of each to add to 1 liter of water to increase a 240 gallon aquarium by respective measurements. Definitely need to research before venturing down correcting with home-made trace elements.

@Randy Holmes-Farley and/or @JimWelsh I really need you guys, .

Well, you're going to have to define "respective measurements" for each element, but I'll proceed with some assumptions.

I frequently help out with the math for a scenario that usually goes like this: "I want to know how many grams "g" per liter of compound "c" I need in order to make a solution that will increase the concentration of element "e" by "p" PPM (mg/L) for every "v" mL of solution that I add to my "t" gallon tank."

The only information usually missing from the question is the atomic mass "a" of element e, and the molecular mass "m" of compound c. Once we look those up (Google is your friend), then we can do the following:

g = m / a * p / v * t * 3.7854

The "* 3.7854" is obviously a conversion of tank volume "t" from gallons to liters.

Let's see how this would work for your sodium fluoride supplementation. Since you didn't specify "p" for any of the elements you intend to dose, I'll make the assumption that in this case you want to increase your tank's F by 0.94 mg/L ("PPM" -- from the "-0.94" difference in the report you shared above). So, you have the following values for the variables:

m = 41.98817 (google "sodium fluoride mw")
a = 18.9984 (google "fluorine mw")
p = 0.94 (desired F increase in mg/L, or PPM)
v = 100 (100 mL to achieve the increase -- my assumption)
t = 240 (gallons in tank)

So, g = 41.98817 / 18.9984 * 0.94 / 100 * 240 * 3.7854 = 18.87, meaning a solution containing 18.87 grams of NaF per liter will raise the F level of a 240 gallon tank by 0.94 mg/L for every 100 mL that is added.

Let's think this through: Our stock solution will contain 18.87 * 18.9984 / 41.98817 = 8.5399 grams of F per liter. So, 100 mL will contain 0.85399 grams, or 853.99 mg of F. Adding that to 240 gallons, or 240 * 3.7854 = 908.5 liters of water will result in 853.99 / 908.5 = 0.94 mg/L of F.

I leave the other calculations to the reader as an exercise.

Be careful when dealing with compounds that may have different levels of hydration; anhydrous CaCl2, CaCl2*2H2O, etc., each have different values for "m". Also be careful when there is more than one atom of "e" in the compound -- you then have to multiply "a" by the number of atoms present, e.g., for vanadium pentoxide (V2O5), then you have to multiply the "a" value by 2. Also, pay attention to the solubility of the compounds you're working with in water, and stay well below their solubility at 0C.

EDIT: I have made a number of edits to correct a few things since I originally posted this. I think it's correct and needs no further edits now.

EDIT2: In the case where the "element" is actually a polyatomic ion, e.g., nitrate = NO3, then you simply use the molecular weight of the ion for "a". In the case of nitrate that would be 62.0049 (google "nitrate mw").