EMERGENCY Leopard Wrasse Listless and Swimming Sideways After API General Cure

capt.dave

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I have a Leopard Wrasse in QT with 3 Sapphire Damsels. QT tank is 15 gallons. Salt mix is Red Sea blue bucket mixed at 1.020 SG.

I am following Humblefish's QT protocol for parasites but not the Copper because of the wrasse. The tank is in my home office so I'm there all day everyday to observe and after 19 days there is no sign of ick. Will continue to observe for 2 more weeks at least. Meanwhile, I am treating for worms and flukes with API General Cure. I originally had a pair of Leopards in there but about a week after putting them in QT one was listless and swimming sideways one morning after appearing fine the evening before. I fresh water dipped all the fish and saw flukes so immediately started API General Cure. Too late for that one but the other survived the first round. Now it's time for the second round per Humblefish's protocol and about 10 minutes after dosing (1 and a half packets for 15 gallons) the wrasse is listless and swimming sideways.

I should note that this is not entirely new behavior for her. She does this almost every night from about 4 until 5 when he dives into the sand. It's like she's drunk or sleep walking. Then wriggles out alert and hunting every morning. What has me concerned is that this time it's in the morning and right after I dosed. As I'm typing this I just watched her eat a piece of Mysis shrimp and then role onto her back and right herself with a jerk. So she's drunk and hungry. I'll try posting a video in a few minutes from my phone.

I'm prepping 10 gallons fresh saltwater for an emergency water change to get the medication out but it's going to take an hour or two to warm up and match salinity. Water is well aerated with a sponge filter and small powerhead angled toward the surface. Nitrates just tested at 10 ppm. Ammonia is undetectable by either Seachem badge or Red Sea test kit, though I doubt the kit because of reports that they don't read right with meds in the water. It was zero a couple days ago and the QT tank has been up and cycled for 2 months.

I know wrasses are delicate and Leopards, especially, and that's why we us API GC rather than prazzi and it's why I opted to observe before treating with copper but have it on hand if needed. Has anyone seen this before? More importantly, has anyone recovered from this before that can share what to do?
 
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capt.dave

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I have a Leopard Wrasse in QT with 3 Sapphire Damsels. QT tank is 15 gallons. Salt mix is Red Sea blue bucket mixed at 1.020 SG.

I am following Humblefish's QT protocol for parasites but not the Copper because of the wrasse. The tank is in my home office so I'm there all day everyday to observe and after 19 days there is no sign of ick. Will continue to observe for 2 more weeks at least. Meanwhile, I am treating for worms and flukes with API General Cure. I originally had a pair of Leopards in there but about a week after putting them in QT one was listless and swimming sideways one morning after appearing fine the evening before. I fresh water dipped all the fish and saw flukes so immediately started API General Cure. Too late for that one but the other survived the first round. Now it's time for the second round per Humblefish's protocol and about 10 minutes after dosing (1 and a half packets for 15 gallons) the wrasse is listless and swimming sideways.

I should note that this is not entirely new behavior for her. She does this almost every night from about 4 until 5 when he dives into the sand. It's like she's drunk or sleep walking. Then wriggles out alert and hunting every morning. What has me concerned is that this time it's in the morning and right after I dosed. As I'm typing this I just watched her eat a piece of Mysis shrimp and then role onto her back and right herself with a jerk. So she's drunk and hungry. I'll try posting a video in a few minutes from my phone.

I'm prepping 10 gallons fresh saltwater for an emergency water change to get the medication out but it's going to take an hour or two to warm up and match salinity. Water is well aerated with a sponge filter and small powerhead angled toward the surface. Ammonia is undetectable by either Seachem badge or Red Sea test kit, though I doubt the kit because of reports that they don't read right with meds in the water. It was zero a couple days ago and the QT tank has been up and cycled for 2 months.

I know wrasses are delicate and Leopards, especially, and that's why we us API GC rather than prazzi and it's why I opted to observe before treating with copper but have it on hand if needed. Has anyone seen this before? More importantly, has anyone recovered from this before that can share what to do?
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SaltyT

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She's not using her tail in your video so it looks like something neurological is going on. Based on what you've described in your post, it sounds like the condition is progressing.
 
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capt.dave

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From dawn until about 4 she swims around slowly but normally, I think, hunting and picking up Mysis. I've never seen her swim fast. There's not much reason to in this tank. The damsels leave her completely alone. She does tear into frozen Mysis when I put a quarter cube in for the fish each day and uses her tail for that. She ate this morning but not with much enthusiasm.

Now she just went into the sand at about noon following her usual drunk swim about the tank...just 5 hours earlier than normal and right after I dosed GC to the tank. I've never had a Leopard Wrasse before but this does seem strange. Anyone have an opinion on the emergency water change to remove the GC? Or should I let her sleep it off and see how she is tomorrow?
 
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She woke up, staggered around the tank for a couple hours and went back to bed in the sand. I just changed 2/3 of the water. Will post again tomorrow but I'll monitor this thread tonight in case anyone else would like to opine.
 
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capt.dave

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She looked a lot better this morning, gliding gracefully about the tank and appeared normal. I dropped in some Mysis and she got excited, tore into it and promptly went into a spasm. Belly up and shaking on the bottom of the tank. Her body contorts into an S shape like the muscles are cramping. She came out of it and ate with enthusiasm but she is still a little shaky and having trouble staying up right. SaltyT's comment about a neurological condition may be it. Do fish get epilepsy? Could it be swim bladder?
 
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capt.dave

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I have had wrasses behave like that as a result of a spinal injury. A couple were much worse than your.
Did they survive or get better? Could you do anything for them?
I got a good look at her just a minute ago with a big magnifying glass. She looks great. No frayed fins, color's good, no unnatural spots or marks. She's still swimming around and eats well but I can't imagine her in my reef tank with all it's flow. She'd be like a leaf in the wind.
 

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Did they survive or get better? Could you do anything for them?
I got a good look at her just a minute ago with a big magnifying glass. She looks great. No frayed fins, color's good, no unnatural spots or marks. She's still swimming around and eats well but I can't imagine her in my reef tank with all it's flow. She'd be like a leaf in the wind.
One recovered .... two did not. There was nothing I could really do.
 
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capt.dave

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Update: she seems to be improving since the water change. At least I haven’t seen a seizure since my last post. She continues to eat well and cruise the tank and is doing better at staying up right. Still a lot of up and down swimming and often swims vertically but she does seem like she’s feeling better.
 

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I had a radiant wrasse that somehow damaged itself between seeing it at my LFS, bagging it, and releasing into QT at home. This particular fish lost control of the tail fin (it couldn't flare out the tail like other halichoeres wrasses often do), but it lived fine for years.

YMMV. Keep it well-fed, and treat it like you would any other wrasse in QT (especially de-worm, both internal and external).

Good luck!
 
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capt.dave

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Well, she seems a lot better now. I think it was a reaction to the general cure because the issue started right after I dosed and she seemed to start getting better after the water change. I know GC is preferred over Prazi for wrasses and most people have good success with it so I would caution wrasse owners to not take my experience for an excuse not to do good quarantine and treat for parasites. If some poeple can be allergic to penicillin but most aren't, then I guess some individual fish might react poorly to meds others of the same species tolerate well.
 

LeftyReefer

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Glad to hear your wrasse is improving.

I just got done feeding a flasher wrasse some pellet food spiked with GC for 10 days and didn't have any issues doing so. I think GC is considered pretty wrasse safe.
 
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capt.dave

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Everything I’ve read, including by Humblefish and others who really know would agree with you, Leftyreefer. I think maybe this particular fish might have been sensitive or allergic or maybe it was coincident with something else going on. I still have flasher wrasses on my wish list and will certainly treat them with GC per Humblefish’s protocol. I’ll just make sure I have mixed up salt water on hand just in case.
 
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Everything I’ve read, including by Humblefish and others who really know would agree with you, Leftyreefer. I think maybe this particular fish might have been sensitive or allergic or maybe it was coincident with something else going on. I still have flasher wrasses on my wish list and will certainly treat them with GC per Humblefish’s protocol. I’ll just make sure I have mixed up salt water on hand just in case.
I'm glad I found your post....I have a blue sided wrasse, a melanarus wrasse, and a Lubbock fairy wrasse in quarantine with a blue hippo tang. They've been under observation for a week, and everyone is swimming and eating well. This evening, I saw some white stringy poop coming from the Hippo Tang, and now am researching how to treat the whole quarantine tank. I have General Cure on hand, and can purchase Prazi if its better. But I need some guidance. I tried to find the GC protocol for wrasses on the humble fish site, but my search skills suck. Do you mind me asking what the GC protocol is with wrasses?

All the fish are fat, and eating well....no white poop from the Wrasses...just the tang.

TIA
 

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Well, she seems a lot better now. I think it was a reaction to the general cure because the issue started right after I dosed and she seemed to start getting better after the water change. I know GC is preferred over Prazi for wrasses and most people have good success with it so I would caution wrasse owners to not take my experience for an excuse not to do good quarantine and treat for parasites. If some poeple can be allergic to penicillin but most aren't, then I guess some individual fish might react poorly to meds others of the same species tolerate well
Not sure why to prefer GC over Prazipro. The active substance in both is praziquantel at a similar concentration. GC has in addition Metronidazole.
 
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capt.dave

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I'm glad I found your post....I have a blue sided wrasse, a melanarus wrasse, and a Lubbock fairy wrasse in quarantine with a blue hippo tang. They've been under observation for a week, and everyone is swimming and eating well. This evening, I saw some white stringy poop coming from the Hippo Tang, and now am researching how to treat the whole quarantine tank. I have General Cure on hand, and can purchase Prazi if its better. But I need some guidance. I tried to find the GC protocol for wrasses on the humble fish site, but my search skills suck. Do you mind me asking what the GC protocol is with wrasses?

All the fish are fat, and eating well....no white poop from the Wrasses...just the tang.

TIA
@clhardy5 , I'm sorry, I just saw this post and I'm hoping my answer is too late and you found the thread yourself but in case you haven't, I'm following this from @Humblefish : (https://humble.fish/community/index.php?threads/quarantine.2/). I just used GC rather than Prazi but otherwise followed the procedure.

HOWEVER, my wrasses did not survive quarantine. I'm 0 for 3 on leopards and will not try (kill) another one. I don't know why they all died but suspect it may be flukes because I saw some come off in a freshwater dip near the end. I've read that if flukes are bad enough that the fish can actually bleed out if you kill them all at once. I have no way to know if that's what's happening or what "bad enough" looks like but it seems plausible. Since I get all my fish from the same LFS I now assume flukes and treat them first, then do copper for ick and velvet unless I actually see ick or velvet, and I never have from this LFS. I assume ick is there for safety but I know flukes are so I've made a conscious decision to modify @Humblefish 's protocol and treat for those first, even though ick and velvet are much more dangerous conditions.

I want to be careful with what I'm saying, here: I am not recommending a change to his Humblefish's prophylactic protocol (I'm hobbyist and no where near qualified to do that) but I think he would agree that modifying the order of treatment is warranted if you know or have reason to believe you have an active infection. Treat those first, then move on to prophylactics. Now, if ick or velvet showed up while I was treating for flukes, then I'd immediately do a big water change to get the prazi or GC out of the water and start on copper.

@Humblefish or @Jay Hemdal , please correct me if you see this differently. I don't want to put bad info into the forum (or into my own practices)! Thanks!
 
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