EUPHYLLIA HELP?? PLEASE

ORCA1

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Hello,

Forgive me if this question has come often on reef to reef. I keep a 210 gallon reef tank (LPS) that is fairly well established about 3 years...live rock completely covered in coralline algae. I just have been having terrible difficulty keeping my Euphyllia (which happen to be my favorite). Most other species of LPS are doing well...but the Euphyllia seem to recede and die with time. This process seems to be accelerating when I try new pieces. It does not appear to be brown jelly as I do not see any "jelly" just tissue disappearing. My parameters are as follows:
ALK= 9.1-9.5 , CA= mid 400's, P04= always around 0.1, PH = 8.3 to 8.4, temp 79, Mg= 1400 ish, Nitrates always sort of low range up to about 5. I have tried low flow, higher flow and different placement of the Euphyllia. I use 3 Radion XR30 lights by Ecotech set on there LPS program at about 50% of its max. I have used phytoplankton/zoo plankton/fuel (amino acid)/as well as coral frenzy a couple days per week on alternate day schedules...I have also tried not to use them as well. I also do about a 30 gallon weekly water change with Fritz salt. I have a professional RO unit thru Culligan water systems they service and change cartridges filters. I have a 2-3 inch sand bed.

I am not sure what I am missing or why this keeps happening. My only thought.. is there any way I can be still introducing silicates to the system? I do have chronic diatoms on the sand and glass that I need to scrape and remove a couple times a week. The tank shouldn't be having the "new tank" diatom period at this point. I was under the impression the diatoms really won't kill the coral and they don't appear overgrown on the coral surface despite the sand being covered. Is the sand toxic? Although I am not getting terrible spikes of any sort. My only other thought is if I am giving them enough light intensity....but again the other LPS are not affected. The other thought is that nitrates are to low...but why just the Euphyllia? Of note I have had the same happen to wall/branch hammers and torch. I have had Octos that did better.

Incidentally I am in the final stages of saving up for a new larger walk around tank as I would like a little more width for more options with aquascaping and coral placement. This is however a ways away due to turnover time in production. I plan on trying to go bare bottom this time around. Before taking that step in a few months I would like to solve this problem to prevent it now and for the future tank. I would appreciate any ideas as I am perplexed and hate to keep losing what is my favorite species of LPS. I need that movement they provide in my tank!

THANK YOU!!
 

Nicholas Dushynsky

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Can I just ask what type of euphillias, I cant seem to keep frogspawn, but i can keep the good old hammer coral. On the other hand Torches seem to survive and not thrive in my tank. So I'm gonna tag along. Also I have tried acans and they shrink and die on me.
 

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Hmm weird how you can keep your other lps but not euphyllias and that you still have diatoms in a 3 year tank.

Can we get a picture of your tank?

Maybe grab a tds checker and check what your ro water is at. I'm guessing your ro unit is not adequate enough and you have unwanted minerals in the output. Maybe want to invest in an rodi unit but check your tds numbers first.
 

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Have you tried a Lab check of the water quality? Sometimes that will throw up something that we can't test for. The presence of Diatoms might indicate too many silicates.

I personally run my tank at KH 8.2 and my Euphyllia are now doing fine, although the largest one did not like it with too much light or flow, I originally had it on the top reef, now all of my Euphyllias are on the Garden plate. I messed around with my wavemaker and now the garden plate has a mixed up flow above it.

I feed my euphyllia pretty directly every 2 or 3 days with a bit of Min-S, they seem to like the personal touch and there is increased flesh growth down the Stem as well as a significant size increase.

This was Euphyllia on 26 Nov Last year.

Euphyllia 20201126.jpeg

Sorry about the Mobile phone picture.

This is it today:


IMG_3868.JPG
IMG_3869.JPG

My nitrates are too high at the moment, 40 but I will transfer some more Pumping Xenia to get that down a bit, also a string of 10% water changes.
 
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Can I just ask what type of euphillias, I cant seem to keep frogspawn, but i can keep the good old hammer coral. On the other hand Torches seem to survive and not thrive in my tank. So I'm gonna tag along. Also I have tried acans and they shrink and die on me.
I keep all types but have been having terrible luck with all of the class....I had some relatively long lived specimens but once they died...the whole cycle is repeating any time I add new euphyllias ....goes for torch and hammers. They are placed in the tank open up and look great and then deteriorate rather quickly over a couple of months.
 
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Hmm weird how you can keep your other lps but not euphyllias and that you still have diatoms in a 3 year tank.

Can we get a picture of your tank?

Maybe grab a tds checker and check what your ro water is at. I'm guessing your ro unit is not adequate enough and you have unwanted minerals in the output. Maybe want to invest in an rodi unit but check your tds numbers first.
Great suggestion I will purchase a TDS checker. I hope my unit is sufficient...it is suppose to be the Cadillac (commercial home grade system with top filters) and is thru Culligan water systems I have a valve next to the tank so I can feed water off of it and it is primarily used for tank water changes vs. home use...I even have what they call AQUA CLEER an additional filter to remove everything. I have the filters checked and changed. Will order that TDS and send pictures later today when lights come on.
 
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Have you tried a Lab check of the water quality? Sometimes that will throw up something that we can't test for. The presence of Diatoms might indicate too many silicates.

I personally run my tank at KH 8.2 and my Euphyllia are now doing fine, although the largest one did not like it with too much light or flow, I originally had it on the top reef, now all of my Euphyllias are on the Garden plate. I messed around with my wavemaker and now the garden plate has a mixed up flow above it.

I feed my euphyllia pretty directly every 2 or 3 days with a bit of Min-S, they seem to like the personal touch and there is increased flesh growth down the Stem as well as a significant size increase.

This was Euphyllia on 26 Nov Last year.

Euphyllia 20201126.jpeg

Sorry about the Mobile phone picture.

This is it today:


IMG_3868.JPG
IMG_3869.JPG

My nitrates are too high at the moment, 40 but I will transfer some more Pumping Xenia to get that down a bit, also a string of 10% water changes.
Sending out for a lab check sounds good....the company I have the RO unit from also does a complete water test so that may help get a quick result as they are local. thanks
 

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RO no DI... your probably putting something in the water that not being cleaned out by your "professional RO" system.

Get a TDS meter, add a DI stage right before you use it. Could also explain the diatoms in a 3 year old tank. E
 

Riqaq

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I hope my unit is sufficient...it is suppose to be the Cadillac (commercial home grade system with top filters) and is thru Culligan water systems I have a valve next to the tank so I can feed water off of it and it is primarily used for tank water changes vs. home use...I even have what they call AQUA CLEER an additional filter to remove everything.
I have the Nissan Sunny of RO units https://aqua-medic.de/index.php?r=catalog/product&id=450&cid=44 but it does have a demineralisation filter for removing silicates https://aqua-medic.de/index.php?r=catalog/product&id=442&cid=44 . You can't drink the water, no minerals etc, that is usually achieved by remixing filtered water back in (I think).

If the draw off tap is connected directly to the tank, then I suspect that you are drawing off drinking grade water to put in the aquarium (assuming that the tank feeds up to the drinking water tap). BRS did a nice video comparing the differences between Aquarium and drinking water systems. Your tank water needs to come from before the "remineraliser".
 

Riqaq

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I have the Nissan Sunny of RO units https://aqua-medic.de/index.php?r=catalog/product&id=450&cid=44 but it does have a demineralisation filter for removing silicates https://aqua-medic.de/index.php?r=catalog/product&id=442&cid=44 . You can't drink the water, no minerals etc, that is usually achieved by remixing filtered water back in (I think).

If the draw off tap is connected directly to the tank, then I suspect that you are drawing off drinking grade water to put in the aquarium (assuming that the tank feeds up to the drinking water tap). BRS did a nice video comparing the differences between Aquarium and drinking water systems. Your tank water needs to come from before the "remineraliser".
I just read the Aqua Cleer manual at https://www.drinkculligan.com/wcm-docs/docs/aquacleer_advanced_systems_ownersguide_1.pdf . I was wrong; there is no re-mineraliser mentioned in the manual, nor is there a demineralizer cartridge mentioned. Unless you have a customised set up, then this RO unit seems, to me, to be configured for domestic drinking water and not really suitable for Reef use.

I am not a water chemist so I don't know if running the output of the run off tap through a separate resin filter is feasible (or even safe for the aquarium) maybe one of the #reefsquad could help.
 
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If that is the case you can buy a single di resin from brs and then just connect your ro output to that. Again check your TDS first
 

Riqaq

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Sending out for a lab check sounds good....the company I have the RO unit from also does a complete water test so that may help get a quick result as they are local. thanks
Orca1, Looking at the things that Culligan shows in the test results, it is better that you get a test carried out through your Local Fish Store. They will focus on the elements that affect your friends in the aquarium. We are Lucky in Germany the ATI water tests are readily available here. Your fish store should be able to identify a lab that will test your tank water for the good bits and the bad bits for your aquarium.
 
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I just read the Aqua Cleer manual at https://www.drinkculligan.com/wcm-docs/docs/aquacleer_advanced_systems_ownersguide_1.pdf . I was wrong; there is no re-mineraliser mentioned in the manual, nor is there a demineralizer cartridge mentioned. Unless you have a customised set up, then this RO unit seems, to me, to be configured for domestic drinking water and not really suitable for Reef use.

I am not a water chemist so I don't know if running the output of the run off tap through a separate resin filter is feasible (or even safe for the aquarium) maybe one of the #reefsquad could help.
Thank you Riqaq I have a TDS checker on order so hopefully I can get an understanding of what the output is...when I had it installed they indicated to me it would be suitable with TDS close to 0 of course they are not aquarium people and maybe I was to trusting...I am thinking that may not be the case so I am going to test and either way have a DI added to the system regardless of the result. I will let you know what the TDS reads as soon as it arrives before and after the DI is added. I appreciate all your ideas.
 

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Could it be an invert or a fish? I had an urchin kill a torch.
 
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all fish and inverts seem behaved..thanks
 

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Thank you Riqaq I have a TDS checker on order so hopefully I can get an understanding of what the output is...when I had it installed they indicated to me it would be suitable with TDS close to 0 of course they are not aquarium people and maybe I was to trusting...I am thinking that may not be the case so I am going to test and either way have a DI added to the system regardless of the result. I will let you know what the TDS reads as soon as it arrives before and after the DI is added. I appreciate all your ideas.
I wish you the very best of luck. You are at least now on the road to understanding what may be the problem. I'd be interested to know what the Aquarium Lab Test results are on your water. below is one from January, so you can see what sort of things should be on the list (according to ATI)

Test Date24-Jan-20
SymbolWertAngepasster IdealwertDifferenz
Basic
Salinity (NaCl)Salinität (NaCl)34.75 PSU35.00 PSU-0.25 PSU
Carbonate hardnessKarbonathärte8.21 °dKH7.50 °dKH+0.71 °dKH
Mengenelemente
ChlorideChlorid19758 mg/l19658 mg/l+99.30 mg/l
SodiumNatrium10866 mg/l10921 mg/l-55.10 mg/l
MagnesiumMagnesium1317 mg/l1306 mg/l+11.73 mg/l
SulfurSchwefel898.0 mg/l913.4 mg/l-15.44 mg/l
CalciumCalcium445.1 mg/l418.0 mg/l+27.07 mg/l
PotassiumKalium410.6 mg/l405.1 mg/l+5.52 mg/l
BromineBrom65.97 mg/l66.52 mg/l-0.55 mg/l
StrontiumStrontium8.66 mg/l7.94 mg/l+0.72 mg/l
BoronBor4.35 mg/l4.37 mg/l-0.01 mg/l
FluorineFluorid1.80 mg/l1.29 mg/l+0.51 mg/l
Spurenelemente
LithiumLithium172.0 µg/l168.8 µg/l+3.24 µg/l
SiliconSilicium107.2 µg/l99.28 µg/l+7.89 µg/l
IodineIod62.06 µg/l64.54 µg/l-2.47 µg/l
BariumBarium7.56 µg/l9.93 µg/l-2.37 µg/l
MolybdenumMolybdän24.65 µg/l11.91 µg/l+12.74 µg/l
NickelNickeln.n.0.50 µg/l-0.50 µg/l
ManganeseMangann.n.0.99 µg/l-0.99 µg/l
ArsenicArsenn.n.1.49 µg/l-1.49 µg/l
BerylliumBerylliumn.n.0.10 µg/l-0.10 µg/l
ChromeChromn.n.0.50 µg/l-0.50 µg/l
CobaltCobaltn.n.0.10 µg/l-0.10 µg/l
IronEisenn.n.0.50 µg/l-0.50 µg/l
CopperKupfern.n.0.50 µg/l-0.50 µg/l
SeleniumSelenn.n.0.50 µg/l-0.50 µg/l
SilverSilbern.n.0.10 µg/l-0.10 µg/l
VanadiumVanadium2.12 µg/l1.49 µg/l+0.63 µg/l
ZincZink3.47 µg/l1.99 µg/l+1.48 µg/l
TinZinnn.n.0.50 µg/l-0.50 µg/l
Nährstoffe
NitrateNitrat0.01 mg/l2.00 mg/l-1.99 mg/l
PhosphorusPhosphor25.36 µg/l14.89 µg/l+10.46 µg/l
PhosphatePhosphat0.08 mg/l0.04 mg/l+0.03 mg/l
Schadstoffe
AluminiumAluminium15.28 µg/l0.10 µg/l+15.18 µg/l
AntimonyAntimonn.n.0.10 µg/l-0.10 µg/l
BismuthBismutn.n.0.10 µg/l-0.10 µg/l
LeadBlein.n.0.10 µg/l-0.10 µg/l
CadmiumCadmiumn.n.0.20 µg/l-0.20 µg/l
LanthanumLanthann.n.0 µg/l+0 µg/l
ThalliumThalliumn.n.0.10 µg/l-0.10 µg/l
TitaniumTitann.n.0.10 µg/l-0.10 µg/l
TungstenWolframn.n.0 µg/l+0 µg/l
MercuryQuecksilbern.n.0 µg/l+0 µg/l
 
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If that is the case you can buy a single di resin from brs and then just connect your ro output to that. Again check your TDS first
I will check them out ....would be an easier/cheaper way to go. I use about 30 gallons a week...any idea how long one is good for? TDS on its way ..thank you
 
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I wish you the very best of luck. You are at least now on the road to understanding what may be the problem. I'd be interested to know what the Aquarium Lab Test results are on your water. below is one from January, so you can see what sort of things should be on the list (according to ATI)

Test Date24-Jan-20
SymbolWertAngepasster IdealwertDifferenz
Basic
Salinity (NaCl)Salinität (NaCl)34.75 PSU35.00 PSU-0.25 PSU
Carbonate hardnessKarbonathärte8.21 °dKH7.50 °dKH+0.71 °dKH
Mengenelemente
ChlorideChlorid19758 mg/l19658 mg/l+99.30 mg/l
SodiumNatrium10866 mg/l10921 mg/l-55.10 mg/l
MagnesiumMagnesium1317 mg/l1306 mg/l+11.73 mg/l
SulfurSchwefel898.0 mg/l913.4 mg/l-15.44 mg/l
CalciumCalcium445.1 mg/l418.0 mg/l+27.07 mg/l
PotassiumKalium410.6 mg/l405.1 mg/l+5.52 mg/l
BromineBrom65.97 mg/l66.52 mg/l-0.55 mg/l
StrontiumStrontium8.66 mg/l7.94 mg/l+0.72 mg/l
BoronBor4.35 mg/l4.37 mg/l-0.01 mg/l
FluorineFluorid1.80 mg/l1.29 mg/l+0.51 mg/l
Spurenelemente
LithiumLithium172.0 µg/l168.8 µg/l+3.24 µg/l
SiliconSilicium107.2 µg/l99.28 µg/l+7.89 µg/l
IodineIod62.06 µg/l64.54 µg/l-2.47 µg/l
BariumBarium7.56 µg/l9.93 µg/l-2.37 µg/l
MolybdenumMolybdän24.65 µg/l11.91 µg/l+12.74 µg/l
NickelNickeln.n.0.50 µg/l-0.50 µg/l
ManganeseMangann.n.0.99 µg/l-0.99 µg/l
ArsenicArsenn.n.1.49 µg/l-1.49 µg/l
BerylliumBerylliumn.n.0.10 µg/l-0.10 µg/l
ChromeChromn.n.0.50 µg/l-0.50 µg/l
CobaltCobaltn.n.0.10 µg/l-0.10 µg/l
IronEisenn.n.0.50 µg/l-0.50 µg/l
CopperKupfern.n.0.50 µg/l-0.50 µg/l
SeleniumSelenn.n.0.50 µg/l-0.50 µg/l
SilverSilbern.n.0.10 µg/l-0.10 µg/l
VanadiumVanadium2.12 µg/l1.49 µg/l+0.63 µg/l
ZincZink3.47 µg/l1.99 µg/l+1.48 µg/l
TinZinnn.n.0.50 µg/l-0.50 µg/l
Nährstoffe
NitrateNitrat0.01 mg/l2.00 mg/l-1.99 mg/l
PhosphorusPhosphor25.36 µg/l14.89 µg/l+10.46 µg/l
PhosphatePhosphat0.08 mg/l0.04 mg/l+0.03 mg/l
Schadstoffe
AluminiumAluminium15.28 µg/l0.10 µg/l+15.18 µg/l
AntimonyAntimonn.n.0.10 µg/l-0.10 µg/l
BismuthBismutn.n.0.10 µg/l-0.10 µg/l
LeadBlein.n.0.10 µg/l-0.10 µg/l
CadmiumCadmiumn.n.0.20 µg/l-0.20 µg/l
LanthanumLanthann.n.0 µg/l+0 µg/l
ThalliumThalliumn.n.0.10 µg/l-0.10 µg/l
TitaniumTitann.n.0.10 µg/l-0.10 µg/l
TungstenWolframn.n.0 µg/l+0 µg/l
MercuryQuecksilbern.n.0 µg/l+0 µg/l

thanks very complete and good to know.
 
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ORCA1

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I will check them out ....would be an easier/cheaper way to go. I use about 30 gallons a week...any idea how long one is good for? TDS on its way ..thank you
the resin that is...replacement time
 

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