Everything was going so well... help!
- Thread starter BC-reefer
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Reduced lighting schedule at the moment. Running them 12 hrs but reduced the peak white from 30% to 20%. I have also been manually shutting them off a few hours earlier at night. Sat/sun, kept them off a few extra hours in am as well
ya it ain't nice to look at. but more importantly it seems to be impacting the livestock as well. i have read that some dinos can be toxic... i have now lost a goby, shrimp and a few snails.
on a happier note, i read through your build thread... tank is coming along nicely! looking forward to seeing some corals in there
Neo Jeo
Valuable Member
+1 on reducing the white light if can. Lower even to 10%'s...... Those are the algae growers.
as an update;
current treatment;
- 20% water change every 5-6 days
- stirring sandbed and using turkey bastor to clean off rocks twice daily
- dosing H2O2; started with 2ML for a few days and have now moved up to 3.5ML twice daily
- reduced lighting schedule. White lights are only ramping up to 10% rather than the usual 30%
- ordered a UV sterilizer which should be here in the next few days
overall, it looks like things are improving. The water is very clear from the H2O2 dosing - something i might keep doing as part of my ongoing maintenance. Hoping the UV sterilizer will rid them all together. Unfortunately, there has been a hair algae outbreak on the rocks but if it gets rid of the Dinos i am happy to deal with that after.
current treatment;
- 20% water change every 5-6 days
- stirring sandbed and using turkey bastor to clean off rocks twice daily
- dosing H2O2; started with 2ML for a few days and have now moved up to 3.5ML twice daily
- reduced lighting schedule. White lights are only ramping up to 10% rather than the usual 30%
- ordered a UV sterilizer which should be here in the next few days
overall, it looks like things are improving. The water is very clear from the H2O2 dosing - something i might keep doing as part of my ongoing maintenance. Hoping the UV sterilizer will rid them all together. Unfortunately, there has been a hair algae outbreak on the rocks but if it gets rid of the Dinos i am happy to deal with that after.
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
If you got a nice new uv coming, manual siphon off all the top growth you can see, the cleanest it's been forced-to in weeks, just before you install it. That's best possible biological order for adding a uv in response to an invader and I agree it's great idea.
So glad you kept updated well done progress very fun to chart it's course. Nice persistence yes, that invader will eventually subside. Running any form of a true blackout, after that top cleaning is reset as needed, is how to approach a growback if this first uv go doesn't work in my opinion/next step amplifier if you have a mean strain.
I bet it will uv is really indicated for non anchored invasions
So glad you kept updated well done progress very fun to chart it's course. Nice persistence yes, that invader will eventually subside. Running any form of a true blackout, after that top cleaning is reset as needed, is how to approach a growback if this first uv go doesn't work in my opinion/next step amplifier if you have a mean strain.
I bet it will uv is really indicated for non anchored invasions
Hi guys,
Well it hasnt been an enjoyable past few weeks with the tank and the algae has gotten worse, not better.
I maintained my water changes every 4-5 days, reduced light schedule, h2o2 dosing and added a uv sterilizer a week ago. The algae appears to be getting stronger in that it is growing back faster when i clean it daily. Also, had lights barely on for 3 days and that did very little.
Parameters all remain stable but corals are not happy.
The uv i purchased was not the top product but was what i had budget for. Green killing machine uv sterilizer.
So....
At this point i am planning to tear down and start over. Have the water mixing and will attempt a fresh start tomorrow. New sand will be used.
Here is my plan;
1. Set up corals and fish in a bucket of tank water with wavemaker and heater.
2. Drain tank and discard water
3. Remove sand and scrub entire tank including equipment in back
4. Scrub live rock and rinse with rodi water
5. Put in new sand bed and live rock
6. New water into tank and let settle
7. Put fish and corals back once settled
8. Pray ;)
Questions;
- im using live sand, should i rinse it thoroughly or just put the new stuff right into the tank out of the bag?
- do i need to do more than scrub rocks? I have a piece of live rock with mushrooms on it and would like to keep them
- any other steps i am missing?
Thx,
BCR
Well it hasnt been an enjoyable past few weeks with the tank and the algae has gotten worse, not better.
I maintained my water changes every 4-5 days, reduced light schedule, h2o2 dosing and added a uv sterilizer a week ago. The algae appears to be getting stronger in that it is growing back faster when i clean it daily. Also, had lights barely on for 3 days and that did very little.
Parameters all remain stable but corals are not happy.
The uv i purchased was not the top product but was what i had budget for. Green killing machine uv sterilizer.
So....
At this point i am planning to tear down and start over. Have the water mixing and will attempt a fresh start tomorrow. New sand will be used.
Here is my plan;
1. Set up corals and fish in a bucket of tank water with wavemaker and heater.
2. Drain tank and discard water
3. Remove sand and scrub entire tank including equipment in back
4. Scrub live rock and rinse with rodi water
5. Put in new sand bed and live rock
6. New water into tank and let settle
7. Put fish and corals back once settled
8. Pray ;)
Questions;
- im using live sand, should i rinse it thoroughly or just put the new stuff right into the tank out of the bag?
- do i need to do more than scrub rocks? I have a piece of live rock with mushrooms on it and would like to keep them
- any other steps i am missing?
Thx,
BCR
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
hey can we see pics first, that's most important for strategy truly it is, a full tank shot
we want to hit those rocks with a rasping interval its prob the most important thing you can do against your algae just shy of what you plan with the sandbed, which is ideal. maybe even not having another one is more ideal, but we can at least pre-clean it better this time. if you'll rinse the new one to absolute cloudless perfection before you use it, that cloudless sand no matter how you disturb it sets the stage for being able to pre clean it in the coming weeks and not cause a cloud!
we want to hit those rocks with a rasping interval its prob the most important thing you can do against your algae just shy of what you plan with the sandbed, which is ideal. maybe even not having another one is more ideal, but we can at least pre-clean it better this time. if you'll rinse the new one to absolute cloudless perfection before you use it, that cloudless sand no matter how you disturb it sets the stage for being able to pre clean it in the coming weeks and not cause a cloud!
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445
its worth the 50 min headache reading, and clicking through those examples, since its solely your planned action already being ran and tracked across many tanks 1-200 gallons. you can see cause/effect/goods and bads all in one place. and of course my opining on the matters at hand heh
its worth the 50 min headache reading, and clicking through those examples, since its solely your planned action already being ran and tracked across many tanks 1-200 gallons. you can see cause/effect/goods and bads all in one place. and of course my opining on the matters at hand heh
Crashjack
Well-Known Member
I’m fighting a dino problem and have read through most of the long dino thread. I didn’t identify under a microscope but the look, the disappearing at night, the air bubbles, and the behavior of my fish and corals pretty much confirmed it for me. My problem was caused or at least exacerbated by low phosphates and nitrates. I haven’t won the battle, but things are getting better. I pretty much followed the advice in the thread. I brought my phosphates and nitrates up using Seachem Flourish Phosphorus and Nitrogen (there are other products you can use as well). I’ve also been removing what I can off the rocks and sand during water changes. Frequently changing carbon is also important to help remove toxins if toxins are being released.
With raising nitrates and phosphates, you have to test. You will likely get hair algae or other nuisance algae, but you can deal with that once the dinos are gone.
With raising nitrates and phosphates, you have to test. You will likely get hair algae or other nuisance algae, but you can deal with that once the dinos are gone.
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
its shockingly positive.
Nowadays I see tank invasion problems as 2% nutrient related, and the rest weren't hand guiding to the degree that their unique variables require. That makes 98% of tank invasions I see not a function of a param, or a chemistry challenge only Randy could best, or a series of clue huntings only to be eluded by the true one that makes a tank behave (my 90s in aquarium keeping)
its a lets garden that into compliance if you are lucky enough to be reefing in a nano and not a 250 challenge. physicality, not chemistry as the totality, my new way of seeing things due to wrestling in tank compliance threads.
my own very old nano requires hand guiding... I have to use my own medicine to reef long time.
Nowadays I see tank invasion problems as 2% nutrient related, and the rest weren't hand guiding to the degree that their unique variables require. That makes 98% of tank invasions I see not a function of a param, or a chemistry challenge only Randy could best, or a series of clue huntings only to be eluded by the true one that makes a tank behave (my 90s in aquarium keeping)
its a lets garden that into compliance if you are lucky enough to be reefing in a nano and not a 250 challenge. physicality, not chemistry as the totality, my new way of seeing things due to wrestling in tank compliance threads.
my own very old nano requires hand guiding... I have to use my own medicine to reef long time.
brandon429
what, exactly, are you doing in your avatar
and from those threads, how your tank behaves in the next few mos is spot on predictable.
90% of nanos who complete a rip cleaning experience literal hands off event where for months the tank absorbs again (understandably) all the goodies that got us to this need in the first place. no glass cleaning or drastically reduced cleaning, sparkling sand, its the expected bio reset mode. spoil you rotten into thinking it lasts forever.
10% have variables that require further hand gardening soon after we show on the last page of the sand rinse thread.
maybe their topoff water is drinking water or they didn't rinse out as well as we show optioned on page one of the sand rinse thread (then that makes their cleaning run a nutrient upwelling event, a release from prior stratifications in the sandbed back to the top)
but if they'll continue simply siphoning up any leftovers, it can be guided out now that the bulk of the tank nutrients were addressed in a bio friendly/skip cycle yet forceful manner.
All of reefing is trying to figure out how to not need a rip cleaning, but that's only the ideal. if that state can't be reached, then make a cleaning party run the annual fun event and your nano will live forever biologically speaking. thanks tons for contributing for sure
Ive never reached the state of no work nirvana, though I read about it from large tankers all the time :) (dilution is the solution to storage)
can I link your pics to the sand rinse thread as a direct post
90% of nanos who complete a rip cleaning experience literal hands off event where for months the tank absorbs again (understandably) all the goodies that got us to this need in the first place. no glass cleaning or drastically reduced cleaning, sparkling sand, its the expected bio reset mode. spoil you rotten into thinking it lasts forever.
10% have variables that require further hand gardening soon after we show on the last page of the sand rinse thread.
maybe their topoff water is drinking water or they didn't rinse out as well as we show optioned on page one of the sand rinse thread (then that makes their cleaning run a nutrient upwelling event, a release from prior stratifications in the sandbed back to the top)
but if they'll continue simply siphoning up any leftovers, it can be guided out now that the bulk of the tank nutrients were addressed in a bio friendly/skip cycle yet forceful manner.
All of reefing is trying to figure out how to not need a rip cleaning, but that's only the ideal. if that state can't be reached, then make a cleaning party run the annual fun event and your nano will live forever biologically speaking. thanks tons for contributing for sure
Ive never reached the state of no work nirvana, though I read about it from large tankers all the time :) (dilution is the solution to storage)
can I link your pics to the sand rinse thread as a direct post
For anyone interested, below were the steps i went through.
Tools;
- 6x 5g buckets
- siphon hose
- scrubber brush (meant for dishes) and tooth brush
- Hydrogen Peroxide (lucked out and found one at the pharmacy that had a spray bottle top which is very useful)
- 20lb bag of new sand ( i used new rather than rinsing the sandbed because i had an extra bag from initial setup)
Night Before;
- Mixed RODI and salt. included an extra 5 gallons of water to be used for cleaning
Cleaning day:
Step 1 - tear down and clean
- Checked temp and salinity on new water to ensure it was consistent with tank. once it was good, i started the process
- Removed Corals and CUC from tank and put them into containers of water. Scrubbed coral bases and shells of CUC to remove all algae. I used a light mixture of peroxide and clean salt water to do this. once done, the corals and CUC went into bucket of new saltwater
- Removed everything from the back of tank (sump area). Items coming out included; floss holder, live rock, pump, protein skimmer, intank media basket. Everything got cleaned with water/peroxide mixture and dipped in fresh rodi. it looked brand new
- Attempted to use a turkey baster to blow as much algae as possible off of the rocks. Filled a 5g bucket half full with dirty tank water. Removed all live rock from the tank and put it in the bucket of tank water and set it aside.
-Turned all pumps and powerheads off. left the light on throughout the whole day so i could see what i was doing
- Removed Fish and Shrimp and put them in a 5g bucket of new saltwater.
- Took the 2 powerheads and scrubbed them with a brush while spraying with peroxide. I then put them in a small container of rodi/peroxide and ran them for 30 minutes. once they were clean, i rinsed and put them in the bucket with the fish to keep water circulating. *total time fish were in the bucket was only 3 hours
- Scrubbed inside of tank walls to get all the algae off glass and back. Drained tank water with siphon
- Scooped and siphoned entire sand bed out of tank. rinsed and scrubbed inside again with tap water and then a final rodi rinse
Now, i had a entirely clean tank so it was just building it again which was the fun part ;)
Step 2 - build
- opened bag of sand and rinsed with tap water for roughly 40 minutes until it was running clear. final rinse with rodi water
- sandbed went into tank and then filled display portion of tank with new saltwater. used the plate method to try to limit sand disruption. sand settled quickly
- put clean equipment into back sump area and filled with clean saltwater. fresh filter floss added
- at this point turned the pumps back on so the tank could run and settle prior to putting fish and rock back in
- the corals and CUC went back into the tank
Step 3 - rock scrub
- set up a station by the sink with tupperware containers of water/peroxide.
- took each rock from the bucket and dipped in peroxide solution for a few minutes prior to scrubbing with brush. Alternated between dish brush and tooth brush and used the spray peroxide bottle as well. After scrubbing i would put it back in the water and rotate it while looking for any algae hanging off. I had 6 pieces of rock and depending on size, spent 5-10 minutes on each rock.
Step 4 - Livestock and rock
- took the rock and placed one by one back into the tank and then put the corals back on rock
- powerheads went back onto tank
- lastly, fish were put back in with no issue
All said and done, it took 5 hours and other than a few $3 bottle of peroxide, it did not cost anything. tank looks brand new and will just need to now monitor progress. Also, need to address root cause which appeared to be 0 levels of phos/nitrates. Where i got into trouble with the algae was when i started over feeding to raise the nutrient levels.
Let me know if you have questions. This was very manageable for a IM30l and next time i could do it in much less time. I would guess for bigger tanks this becomes a lot more work
Cheers,
BCR
Tools;
- 6x 5g buckets
- siphon hose
- scrubber brush (meant for dishes) and tooth brush
- Hydrogen Peroxide (lucked out and found one at the pharmacy that had a spray bottle top which is very useful)
- 20lb bag of new sand ( i used new rather than rinsing the sandbed because i had an extra bag from initial setup)
Night Before;
- Mixed RODI and salt. included an extra 5 gallons of water to be used for cleaning
Cleaning day:
Step 1 - tear down and clean
- Checked temp and salinity on new water to ensure it was consistent with tank. once it was good, i started the process
- Removed Corals and CUC from tank and put them into containers of water. Scrubbed coral bases and shells of CUC to remove all algae. I used a light mixture of peroxide and clean salt water to do this. once done, the corals and CUC went into bucket of new saltwater
- Removed everything from the back of tank (sump area). Items coming out included; floss holder, live rock, pump, protein skimmer, intank media basket. Everything got cleaned with water/peroxide mixture and dipped in fresh rodi. it looked brand new
- Attempted to use a turkey baster to blow as much algae as possible off of the rocks. Filled a 5g bucket half full with dirty tank water. Removed all live rock from the tank and put it in the bucket of tank water and set it aside.
-Turned all pumps and powerheads off. left the light on throughout the whole day so i could see what i was doing
- Removed Fish and Shrimp and put them in a 5g bucket of new saltwater.
- Took the 2 powerheads and scrubbed them with a brush while spraying with peroxide. I then put them in a small container of rodi/peroxide and ran them for 30 minutes. once they were clean, i rinsed and put them in the bucket with the fish to keep water circulating. *total time fish were in the bucket was only 3 hours
- Scrubbed inside of tank walls to get all the algae off glass and back. Drained tank water with siphon
- Scooped and siphoned entire sand bed out of tank. rinsed and scrubbed inside again with tap water and then a final rodi rinse
Now, i had a entirely clean tank so it was just building it again which was the fun part ;)
Step 2 - build
- opened bag of sand and rinsed with tap water for roughly 40 minutes until it was running clear. final rinse with rodi water
- sandbed went into tank and then filled display portion of tank with new saltwater. used the plate method to try to limit sand disruption. sand settled quickly
- put clean equipment into back sump area and filled with clean saltwater. fresh filter floss added
- at this point turned the pumps back on so the tank could run and settle prior to putting fish and rock back in
- the corals and CUC went back into the tank
Step 3 - rock scrub
- set up a station by the sink with tupperware containers of water/peroxide.
- took each rock from the bucket and dipped in peroxide solution for a few minutes prior to scrubbing with brush. Alternated between dish brush and tooth brush and used the spray peroxide bottle as well. After scrubbing i would put it back in the water and rotate it while looking for any algae hanging off. I had 6 pieces of rock and depending on size, spent 5-10 minutes on each rock.
Step 4 - Livestock and rock
- took the rock and placed one by one back into the tank and then put the corals back on rock
- powerheads went back onto tank
- lastly, fish were put back in with no issue
All said and done, it took 5 hours and other than a few $3 bottle of peroxide, it did not cost anything. tank looks brand new and will just need to now monitor progress. Also, need to address root cause which appeared to be 0 levels of phos/nitrates. Where i got into trouble with the algae was when i started over feeding to raise the nutrient levels.
Let me know if you have questions. This was very manageable for a IM30l and next time i could do it in much less time. I would guess for bigger tanks this becomes a lot more work
Cheers,
BCR
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