Experiment converting corals to freshwater

[Tankkeepers]

I will say it can be done (I did it)with guppys but they naturally have strong livers due to the waste water they naturally come from its just acclimating their cells to the extra salt was done over 3 generations total and had 8 total generations before going back to freshwater and sold off as no one was interested this was also 10 years ago

 

[Tankkeepers]

Good luck hope it goes well

 

[BigTomo003]

Good luck hope it goes well

I appreciate it man. Will keep you updated

 

[pcon]

I must say I am all for bold goals and pushing the boundaries of what has and what we think can be done in this hobby. However when experimenting on live animals there is a high ethical standard we should adhere to. It is well known and documented that corals cannot survive at low salinities. Your hypothesis is contrary to the status quo of the scientific consensus, that’s not to say it is inherently wrong, helocentrism was also against scientific consensus until it wasn’t. However when your experiment may kill live animals it is essential to research and have a very good idea of why you believe that consensus is incorrect.

It is absolutely inappropriate to risk the lives of animals on a whim. If you are serious about this endeavor there are many steps which I think you should undertake first. I would first recommend looking into the ethical standards put out by local universities for designing experiments involving live animals and basing your experimental process on those standards. Then there are many questions I think you need to answer for yourself before undertaking such an experiment. The first of these questions that come to my mind are below, though I am sure in your research to prepare for this experiment you will come up with many more questions to answer for yourself.

What evidence do you have that you will be successful? Are there thriving corals in freshwater, estuaries or tidal zones which you can use as natural example organisms? Are there corals adapted to fluctuating salinity levels which you will carefully select to experiment on? What biological mechanisms do corals have to adapt to lower salinities?

What ecological barriers exist to have prevented corals from adapting to freshwater ecosystems in the hundreds of millions of years that they have existed on this planet? And how will your experimental conditions address these barriers?

How will you provide for the elemental needs of corals in freshwater?

What is your proposed experimental process and parameters?

Ultimately do you adequately understand the biochemistry of the corals and symbionts involved to undertake this experiment in an ethical and responsible manner?

 

[BigTomo003]

Good luck hope it goes well

I appreciate it man. Will keep you updated

I appreciate it man. Will keep you updated

I appreciate it man. Will keep you updated

I must say I am all for bold goals and pushing the boundaries of what has and what we think can be done in this hobby. However when experimenting on live animals there is a high ethical standard we should adhere to. It is well known and documented that corals cannot survive at low salinities. Your hypothesis is contrary to the status quo of the scientific consensus, that’s not to say it is inherently wrong, helocentrism was also against scientific consensus until it wasn’t. However when your experiment may kill live animals it is essential to research and have a very good idea of why you believe that consensus is incorrect.

It is absolutely inappropriate to risk the lives of animals on a whim. If you are serious about this endeavor there are many steps which I think you should undertake first. I would first recommend looking into the ethical standards put out by local universities for designing experiments involving live animals and basing your experimental process on those standards. Then there are many questions I think you need to answer for yourself before undertaking such an experiment. The first of these questions that come to my mind are below, though I am sure in your research to prepare for this experiment you will come up with many more questions to answer for yourself.

What evidence do you have that you will be successful? Are there thriving corals in freshwater, estuaries or tidal zones which you can use as natural example organisms? Are there corals adapted to fluctuating salinity levels which you will carefully select to experiment on? What biological mechanisms do corals have to adapt to lower salinities?

What ecological barriers exist to have prevented corals from adapting to freshwater ecosystems in the hundreds of millions of years that they have existed on this planet? And how will your experimental conditions address these barriers?

How will you provide for the elemental needs of corals in freshwater?

What is your proposed experimental process and parameters?

Ultimately do you adequately understand the biochemistry of the corals and symbionts involved to undertake this experiment in an ethical and responsible manner?

Have you ever heard of the Australian gold torch? They are closer to brackish than they are to full saltwater. Think, if river levels had to raise and go into the shallow areas of the ocean, or a really bad storm sweeps the corals into the brackish areas of the river. Over years they will adapt to the new environment and as they spawn they will carry them up river and the corals will adapt to the freshwater. That is a verry glossed over super simple construction of that comment of course its more in depth than that.

The corals will be supplemented with the things they will need.

This is to see how adaptable corals can be. If you look into some bird species and even fish that had evolved to live in completely different environments in the matter of 10 years, its fascinating

As for the fish I'm still debating whether or not to go ahead with it but as of the corals it's a definite go ahead. If my theory is correct and they only manage to survive but reproduce in the environment concluding that they can adapt and evolve to an extreme habit change.

Again this is a very simple way to say it but if you are interested then I will keep you posted

 

[Timfish]

My prediction: When you get the salinity down to a specific gravity of 1.018 your corals will stop expanding and they all will be dead by the time it gets to 1.016.

 

[Thaxxx]

Dude,
Your 16 years old.
If you aren't already, you will be chasing the girls in the next 5 years +.
Soon you'll be saying.
Experiment.... what stinking experiment?

 

[BigTomo003]

Dude,
Your 16 years old.
If you aren't already, you will be chasing the girls in the next 5 years +.
Soon you'll be saying.
Experiment.... what stinking experiment?

Im not 16 lol where did u get that from

 

[BigTomo003]

My prediction: When you get the salinity down to a specific gravity of 1.018 your corals will stop expanding and they all will be dead by the time it gets to 1.016.

I like scepticism, and when people say it can't be done that's what I want to prove, to show them wrong. And you may be right and it may not work but there is no harm in trying if u are interested stay updated on the post. Appreciate it buddy

 

[pcon]

Your flippant response makes me seriously question if you have the understanding of biology and biochemistry to undertake this experiment responsibly or ethically.

Your answers to questions are hand wavy at best, blind optimism at worst.

You claim gold torches are closer to brackish than salt, what does this explicitly mean? what is your source for this claim? What are the specific salinities and for what durations do gold torches experience in nature?

Rivers have drained into oceans for hundreds of millions of years yet I know of no evidence any corals have adapted to live in freshwater like you suggest they will.

What does “corals will be supplemented with the things they need” mean? What is your proposed dosing regimen? How will that differ in any way from the natural composition of saltwater? How will you dose various elements without introducing sodium or chloride? Your answer is naive, and absolutely unacceptable for someone who wishes to do this experiment in an ethical and responsible manner.

Fish that can adapt to fresh, salt and brackish water have well known and understood mechanisms for dealing with the problems of changing salinity. What mechanisms do corals poses to deal with protracted low salinities?

You claim to have a theory, what is the theory? from first principles, how will corals survive? How will the symbiotic bacteria and algae survive? If you can’t explicitly explain how corals will balance the different osmotic pressures, and how the essential symbionts will also similarly deal with these vast and fundamental differences in water chemistry, then you don’t have a theory. “Corals can survive in freshwater” is not a theory. It’s a wish with seemingly 0 evidence.

Unless you seriously understand the biochemistry at play here you should not attempt this experiment. You will simply kill corals doing something that all the evidence says is not possible. Do the research learn everything you can before you start. Your answers and comments here are not the answers and comments of someone with the requisite knowledge to begin this undertaking. Take the time to learn before you waste corals lives and years of your life on an experiment almost certainly doomed to failure.

 

[pcon]

there is no harm in trying

except to the corals

 

[BigTomo003]

except to the corals

Oh man

 

[Silent]

THIS IS A GENIOUNE EXPERIMENT

Genuine like my Ray Bams I bought overseas lol

 

[Timfish]

I like scepticism, and when people say it can't be done that's what I want to prove, to show them wrong. And you may be right and it may not work but there is no harm in trying if u are interested stay updated on the post. Appreciate it buddy

Skepticism is good. Stupidity isn't. My prediction if you were conducting an "experiment" on growing gills on cats would be you'd drown them.

 

[RapidReefer]

except to the corals

agreed here all for trying but i think you need to understand what a coral is first. also get a better understanding of Zooxanthellae. there are better ways to test this before the experiment.

 

[Mr_Knightley]

I say lay off the OP people. If he wants to try it out then he can, you are only making pests of yourselves and are obviously not changing the OP's mind on things.
Luckily, there is no shortage of cheap overproduced coral frags in the hobby so there should not be a worry about waste, and tbh by the time he's lowered the salinity they'll tell him something's wrong.

OP, I do oblige you to do more research directly about the subject, not just google searches but maybe a look through scientific publications? I believe this experiment has been done similarly before years ago, I cannot remember the outcome though. Do be careful as you are dealing with living beings, take it slow and terminate if something goes badly wrong.

Now I do ask that anyone else just leave OP alone, he clearly does not want your interventions (nomatter how important they may be). If he regrets the experiment later on he can't blame it on you.

OP, good luck with this! I doubt it will work but you never know man.

 

[jaxteller007]

The more you hand wave away the very serious questions being posed, the more this comes off as just some way to plug your YouTube channel.

 

[afishbestservedcold]

I say lay off the OP people. If he wants to try it out then he can, you are only making pests of yourselves and are obviously not changing the OP's mind on things.
Luckily, there is no shortage of cheap overproduced coral frags in the hobby so there should not be a worry about waste, and tbh by the time he's lowered the salinity they'll tell him something's wrong.

OP, I do oblige you to do more research directly about the subject, not just google searches but maybe a look through scientific publications? I believe this experiment has been done similarly before years ago, I cannot remember the outcome though. Do be careful as you are dealing with living beings, take it slow and terminate if something goes badly wrong.

Now I do ask that anyone else just leave OP alone, he clearly does not want your interventions (nomatter how important they may be). If he regrets the experiment later on he can't blame it on you.

OP, good luck with this! I doubt it will work but you never know man.

Totally agreee, I think people are going a little hard on OP rn. Not that I think the idea will work, it almost certainly won't and I agree with Mr. Knightley and others that it seems you need more research. I'm really not trying to needle here, but your inability to spell (unless english is a second language, in which case I apologize) shows a certain lack of attention to detail that you will definitely need pursuing something this crazy.

However, your tetra idea is NUTS. They, like nearly 100% of freshwater fish, will tolerate a very low level of salinity (not just NaCl, other salts too). Guppies, and their kin platys, mollies, etc., are already physiologically adapted to handle brackish, like a mummichog, so the "experiment" to transition them wasn't much of an experiment.

I still say try it, but you definitely will not be getting a saltwater breeding tetra population in 5 years. Getting the fish to tolerate it is one thing - getting their eggs/fry to tolerate salt is totally different.

except to the corals

just don't use wild/endangered corals.... If you use cultured/tank raised corals I think people should save their ethical concerns for something more legitimate than a guy wasting his money

 

[BigTomo003]

I say lay off the OP people. If he wants to try it out then he can, you are only making pests of yourselves and are obviously not changing the OP's mind on things.
Luckily, there is no shortage of cheap overproduced coral frags in the hobby so there should not be a worry about waste, and tbh by the time he's lowered the salinity they'll tell him something's wrong.

OP, I do oblige you to do more research directly about the subject, not just google searches but maybe a look through scientific publications? I believe this experiment has been done similarly before years ago, I cannot remember the outcome though. Do be careful as you are dealing with living beings, take it slow and terminate if something goes badly wrong.

Now I do ask that anyone else just leave OP alone, he clearly does not want your interventions (nomatter how important they may be). If he regrets the experiment later on he can't blame it on you.

OP, good luck with this! I doubt it will work but you never know man.

Thanks for your kind comment. I have been looking into scientific research conducted before, as I said above of the fish and birds that evolved to a completely different environment all under 10 years. I also mentioned that if I feel the corals are getting harmed they will be instantly removed and put into a qt to recover. I like that people don't think it will work. And it might not but the word "impossible" even spells I'm possible lol,, jokes aside this is not just something I thought of overnight. And as I said people that say it can't be done are the ones that don't atleast try. And there also the first to go "oh man that's cool I want that" even getting them to the point of being in brackish is a big step up. Big step closer

 

[excell007]

I can't explain here but I will be settling up a YouTube channel to document it.

The chanel details will be added once it is set up.

Implicitly you're telling people to go to your youtube if they want to know more about this experiment

Also I don't want people saying "u can't do that". I know what I'm doing and I'm doing it for a good purpose.
ALSO I'M NOT PROMOTING MY CHANEL THIS IS A GENIOUNE EXPERIMENT and it will be done saflsy without hurting the corals.

And yet here you are telling people that you're setting up a you tube channel, which is promoting.
What is the 'good pupose' that you mentioned above, maybe people will be more understanding if they know what this 'good purpose' is. And even be more interested to follow you experiment.