Fallow Period FAIL

[mfinn]

Only added several coral frags during fallow. Which I know is a risk. All inverts i brought pre quarantined.

anything i can do besides do everything all over again…? What is most likely source of ich in this situation. Dont chime in unless you have been through this please. Hahaha.


any input welcome

I did not add any new fish to my 240 for 6 months and one day I suddenly had velvet in my tank.
The ONLY thing added was corals.
A few were added from a hobbyists tank who was getting out of the hobby, just a few days before the outbreak.

If it is ick, and if it were me, I would probably do the whole process over again.

 

[kerbfish]

 

[kerbfish]

Just a couple white spots, looks like ich to me, same as before….however at one point I would say they were too numerous to count before last treatment.

 

[kerbfish]

So im faced with pulling all fish out again and going another fallow period

OR

possibly addding a UV and seeing if this is somehow going to stay at bay, even when adding new fish at some point

i think option 1 is best however I am little worried going full therapeutic 2.5ppm copper power and losing some other fish in process.

I would consider doing 45 days fallow at 81 F although how many have actually done this in reef tanks now and had success?

my biggest fear would be to do all over again and be back at square one.

obviously i would add absolutely no unquarantined coral frags this time to be sure not to mess it up.

i hate to consider trying to “ live with ich” but I do see some appeal. But ultimately the fish could succumb if conditions arent ideal and I think i would feel worse about that then killing a fish in copper.

thoughts? Wise words? Practical experience most desired….

 

[mehaffydr]

So im faced with pulling all fish out again and going another fallow period

OR

possibly addding a UV and seeing if this is somehow going to stay at bay, even when adding new fish at some point

i think option 1 is best however I am little worried going full therapeutic 2.5ppm copper power and losing some other fish in process.

I would consider doing 45 days fallow at 81 F although how many have actually done this in reef tanks now and had success?

my biggest fear would be to do all over again and be back at square one.

obviously i would add absolutely no unquarantined coral frags this time to be sure not to mess it up.

i hate to consider trying to “ live with ich” but I do see some appeal. But ultimately the fish could succumb if conditions arent ideal and I think i would feel worse about that then killing a fish in copper.

thoughts? Wise words? Practical experience most desired….

It sounds like you know what to do just need to do what you know is the best long term solution. Remember Reef keeping is long term not short gain.
If you are diligent about keeping high quality water you will not loose fish during copper quarantine. Typically those who loose fish do so because there already in bad shape because of shipping stress or just don't keep up with good husbandry
You should just decide to ADD NOTHING to the tank during fallow and quarantine everything inverts, corals and fish.
I at one time was in your dilemma but I went fallow for 80 days and quarantined with copper. Now I quarantine everything. I did just receive some new fish from online supplier. I had a couple that were struggling when received one didn't make it but one that was the worse looking is doing great. I owe a lot to Jay Hemdal, vetteguy and others on here for advice and help.

Remember the Reef 2 Reef family is here to help along the way.

 

[jmichaelh7]

So im faced with pulling all fish out again and going another fallow period

OR

possibly addding a UV and seeing if this is somehow going to stay at bay, even when adding new fish at some point

i think option 1 is best however I am little worried going full therapeutic 2.5ppm copper power and losing some other fish in process.

I would consider doing 45 days fallow at 81 F although how many have actually done this in reef tanks now and had success?

my biggest fear would be to do all over again and be back at square one.

obviously i would add absolutely no unquarantined coral frags this time to be sure not to mess it up.

i hate to consider trying to “ live with ich” but I do see some appeal. But ultimately the fish could succumb if conditions arent ideal and I think i would feel worse about that then killing a fish in copper.

thoughts? Wise words? Practical experience most desired….

You won’t lose fish like you think , copper power was super safe for me

 

[LeftyReefer]

You won’t lose fish like you think , copper power was super safe for me

Agreed. The only issues I've had QT'ing fish with copper came with using cupramine when I first started. Since switching to copper power, I've had no more problems. Its been well tolerated by all my fish, including wrasses.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So im faced with pulling all fish out again and going another fallow period

OR

possibly addding a UV and seeing if this is somehow going to stay at bay, even when adding new fish at some point

i think option 1 is best however I am little worried going full therapeutic 2.5ppm copper power and losing some other fish in process.

I would consider doing 45 days fallow at 81 F although how many have actually done this in reef tanks now and had success?

my biggest fear would be to do all over again and be back at square one.

obviously i would add absolutely no unquarantined coral frags this time to be sure not to mess it up.

i hate to consider trying to “ live with ich” but I do see some appeal. But ultimately the fish could succumb if conditions arent ideal and I think i would feel worse about that then killing a fish in copper.

thoughts? Wise words? Practical experience most desired….

Coppersafe at 2.5 ppm is well tolerated. I don't see any reactions in thousands of fish at that level. You need to test accurately, and manage all other aspects of the treatment (such as not taking too long to get to a full dose, knowing the exact volume of water being treated, itc.)

jay

 

[kerbfish]

Coppersafe at 2.5 ppm is well tolerated. I don't see any reactions in thousands of fish at that level. You need to test accurately, and manage all other aspects of the treatment (such as not taking too long to get to a full dose, knowing the exact volume of water being treated, itc.)

jay

Ok, so I do use the Hanna Copper checker. What is considered too long to get to full dose? Is 6 days ok?

also would you feel the need to treat up to 45 days with copper in special cases ?

 

[mfinn]

Ok, so I do use the Hanna Copper checker. What is considered too long to get to full dose? Is 6 days ok?

also would you feel the need to treat up to 45 days with copper in special cases ?

What I have done successfully in the past is bring the dosage to 2.5ppm over 3-4 doses, with a new dose each day.
Depending on how sensitive the fish are ( copper is hard on some wrasses so I take 4 doses for them) is how I judge if it's 3 or 4.

I've treated fish and used to just go 24 to 25 days, but in the last few years I've gone to 30 days at full copper.
A few years ago there were a couple threads on Coppersafe being inconsistent with a few batches.
So I switched to Copper Power. Worked great with 6 wrasses, anthias, clowns, basselets, tangs and angels with 30 days when my display tank came down with velvet

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Ok, so I do use the Hanna Copper checker. What is considered too long to get to full dose? Is 6 days ok?

also would you feel the need to treat up to 45 days with copper in special cases ?

I routinely move fish straight into full coppersafe, many dealers do as well. Six days is way too long - Velvet, Amyloodinium, can kill fish in 72 hours, so fish can die while you are still raising the copper level.

The primary reason for raising copper slowly is due to dosing mistakes. I see many people calculate their dose wrong. Adding a partial dose and then testing, helps reduce that problem. If you add what you calculate as half a dose, but get high or low results, your calculations are off. There is also some small copper loss due to carbonates in the tank water. Therefore, I typically suggest people add half a dose of coppersafe, let the tank circulate for half a day, measure the copper level, and then dose proportionally to get to a full dose.

If your fish have NO overt signs of disease, and it makes you more comfortable, by all means take 48 hours to bring the copper up to a full dose with four 25% additions.

30 days of coppersafe, beyond the point where an active infection was seen is best.

Jay

 

[kerbfish]

I routinely move fish straight into full coppersafe, many dealers do as well. Six days is way too long - Velvet, Amyloodinium, can kill fish in 72 hours, so fish can die while you are still raising the copper level.

The primary reason for raising copper slowly is due to dosing mistakes. I see many people calculate their dose wrong. Adding a partial dose and then testing, helps reduce that problem. If you add what you calculate as half a dose, but get high or low results, your calculations are off. There is also some small copper loss due to carbonates in the tank water. Therefore, I typically suggest people add half a dose of coppersafe, let the tank circulate for half a day, measure the copper level, and then dose proportionally to get to a full dose.

If your fish have NO overt signs of disease, and it makes you more comfortable, by all means take 48 hours to bring the copper up to a full dose with four 25% additions.

30 days of coppersafe, beyond the point where an active infection was seen is best.

Jay

I did use one piece of dry rock last time I treated. I did notice it adsorbed quite a bit of copper past time cause my calculations were not lining up.

since my bacteria is already established I was looking to take out the live rock. I do have a fine layer of sand that i think i want to keep in…..my male anthias gave himself a lip infection attacking his reflection in bottom of tank. I assume it doesnt absorb quite as much copper as live rock….any major objections??

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I did use one piece of dry rock last time I treated. I did notice it adsorbed quite a bit of copper past time cause my calculations were not lining up.

since my bacteria is already established I was looking to take out the live rock. I do have a fine layer of sand that i think i want to keep in…..my male anthias gave himself a lip infection attacking his reflection in bottom of tank. I assume it doesnt absorb quite as much copper as live rock….any major objections??

Carbonate sand has a LOT of surface area, and that where copper will be passively absorbed. Still, if the amount of sand used is small, you’ll be able to keep up with it. Just dispose of the sand after use, you won’t want it accidentally use it for critical applications.
Jay

 

[kerbfish]

So I should just get rid of sand from last go around to prevent copper leaching or residual disease or both?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So I should just get rid of sand from last go around to prevent copper leaching or residual disease or both?

Copper leaching mainly happens with a drop in pH and is mainly an issue for invertebrates. I think you can continue to use the sand in fish only QT tanks.
Jay

 

[brandon429]

Edit/ mis post in wrong thread beautiful fish in post #22

 

[kerbfish]

UPDATE- it has been 4 weeks since reintroduction of fish. White spots have not reemerged in some time on my powder blue. No signs of anything spreading to any other fish.

seems somewhat unlikely that I am dealing with ich here. I was told that this could be signs of flukes. The flashing behavior continues for my powder blue but I can not see anything visible in the fish. Anyone have thoughts on this?

i was advised to try Prazi in my main display. I have alot of coral….so skeptical even though i hear it doesn't affect them. I am still awaiting eDNA results from AquaBiomics…

 

[Jay Hemdal]

UPDATE- it has been 4 weeks since reintroduction of fish. White spots have not reemerged in some time on my powder blue. No signs of anything spreading to any other fish.

seems somewhat unlikely that I am dealing with ich here. I was told that this could be signs of flukes. The flashing behavior continues for my powder blue but I can not see anything visible in the fish. Anyone have thoughts on this?

i was advised to try Prazi in my main display. I have alot of coral….so skeptical even though i hear it doesn't affect them. I am still awaiting eDNA results from AquaBiomics…

Very often, the first/only symptom you see with Gyrodactylus flukes is flashing/scratching. Gill flukes produce rapid breathing, while Neobenedenia produces cloudy eyes, ragged fins, etc.

Many people use Prazipro in their reef tanks (with good aeration). However, I'm always worried that it could affect really delicate corals - the solvent used can be degraded by bacteria, and I worry that will increase nutrients in a reef and set off some bad chain of events in certain aquariums.

Jay