Fallow periods: Going Fishless

[Reef Pro]

Possible sources of parasites for sure. We aren't sure exactly how some parasites seem to migrate from tank to tank without fish transfer. Some thoughts are on aersol transmission. But more than likely, it's equipment, wet hands, and cross contamination is the result. I always clean, sterilize equipment from tanks with parasites. Bleach, rinse, rinse, rinse, dry. And if a particularly nasty parasite like Uronema, velvet, gram negative bacterial infections, etc. I do another step wit H2O2, rinse, rinse, rinse, dry.

the equipment isn't going from tank to tank.... for example same hose used to syphon before the fallow period as now without any sterilization... would these be a possible area of concern. The hose was in water prior to the fallow period and then kept in the trash can and used for water changes throughout that time. Any thoughts... I guess it won't hurt to sterilize it... sorry just asking for a friend of mine. Thanks

 

[Big G]

I clean and sterilize anything "wet" after use. It's pretty tough to kill some parasites/bacteria. I don't like taking chances. I keep a spray bottle with lemon juice, vinegar and a bit of water handy. Easy peasy.

 

[Reef Pro]

I clean and sterilize anything "wet" after use. It's pretty tough to kill some parasites/bacteria. I don't like taking chances. I keep a spray bottle with lemon juice, vinegar and a bit of water handy. Easy peasy.

is that suffice or is bleach a better alternative? mainly concerned with lingering parasites

 

[Big G]

I use bleach for the heavy duty sterilizing. But I keep a spray bottle as I mentioned near the tanks and as I use tools, etc. I just give them a squirt and wipe for equipment going back into the same tanks. It's just a bit of caution.

 

[Reef Pro]

I use bleach for the heavy duty sterilizing. But I keep a spray bottle as I mentioned near the tanks and as I use tools, etc. I just give them a squirt and wipe for equipment going back into the same tanks. It's just a bit of caution.

For sure! Appreciate the help as always

 

[jmcdona6]

@Humblefish

I am on Day 36 of my fallow period right now. I started to think about a potential serious misstep in many fallow attempts. When I first noticed disease in my tank (after going through a short period of denial and rationalization), I immediately took steps to remove the fish and start the fallow/QT process. The problem is there isn't really a good way to quickly remove fish (trapping would probably take too long, especially for velvet) in a large mature reef without moving rocks, disturbing sand, etc.

In doing so, aren't you probably burying a lot of the tomonts that were attached to the surface and rock surfaces? Noting the research about tomonts surviving an unknown amount of time in a low oxygen (i.e. buried) environment, wouldn't this just be a potential time bomb waiting to go off with an unknown length of fuse? Everything is fine for months then a snail or powerhead uncovers a hybernating tomont and unleashes the cycle again on the tank...

What are your thoughts? Kind of depressing if you ask me.

 

[DeepSeaRob17]

Going Fallow
​

**Read this before going fallow**: Why a fallow period will sometimes fail

The reason to go fallow (fishless) is to eliminate a fish disease from your DT (display tank). Going fallow works because you are denying the disease a fish host to feed on, essentially starving it to death.

In order to go fallow you must remove ALL fish from your DT. If just one fish is left behind, even a “disease resistant” species, then going fallow is for naught because the disease will continue its life cycle. Corals/inverts can be left in the DT, as those are not capable of hosting - although some are capable of “housing” the encysted stage of certain parasites for a period of time (see “Fallow Periods” below). It is important to continue to feed your corals/inverts while going fallow, and also put a pinch of flake or pellet food into the DT every 2-3 days to feed nitrifying bacteria in the absence of fish poop. Continue to do everything normally with your tank while going fallow; although you may wish to go lights out if you are running a fish only system (just don’t forget to feed that bacteria!)

Fallow Periods - Below is the general consensus fallow periods for all diseases that require it. In most cases, it is the longest known time period that the encysted stage can survive on corals, inverts, rocks, substrate without a fish host to feed on. The fallow period starts when the last fish is removed from the tank.

• Black ich (turbellarian worms) - 4 weeks
• Brooklynella aka “Clownfish disease” or “Brook” - 6 weeks
• Flukes (monogenean worms) - 4 weeks
• Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans) - 76 days
• Uronema marinum - No fallow period, as it does not require a fish host to survive. It is an opportunistic parasite that strikes when a fish’s immune system has been compromised. Uronema mainly affects damsels (especially chromis) and clownfish.
• Velvet (Amyloodinium) - 6 weeks

During the fallow period, the fish must be quarantined and treated for whatever disease(s) are afflicting them (see links below). Successful treatment is imperative to avoid disease(s) from being reintroduced into the DT:

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-diagnosis/189284-fish-diseases-101-a.html

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fi...is/189658-treatment-options-my-two-cents.html

Quarantining all future livestock purchases is also very important to avoid having to go fallow again in the future: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/fish-disease-treatment-diagnosis/189815-how-quarantine.html

After the fallow period has ended, you can return your fish to the DT. I recommend doing it one fish at a time, spread out over a couple of weeks. This will give your bacterial levels time to adjust to the added fish bio-load, and avoid a potential mini-cycle/ammonia spike. I also prefer to add back smaller fish first, so they are established ahead of the larger, more aggressive ones.

Do be sure to closely monitor your ammonia levels while adding fish back. I advocate using a Seachem Ammonia Alert badge for constant monitoring:

Edit: You can also use a FW black molly to test if your fallow period has been successful: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/fallow-periods-going-fishless.190324/page-2#post-2855190

Is this still accurate? I’m experiencing flukes I think. Just pulled all my fish 3 days ago.

 

[LeprechaunReefer]

So I took a shortcut adding livestock and got burnt. My fish are flashing and I suspect ich. The flashing is not frequent but it happens at least daily with three of my six fish. I’ve dozed prazi in the display with no improvement.

Once I get my fish in QT they’ll remain there for approx 90 days and will go through copper/any other needed meds if something arises.

Since I’m going to need to remove most of my rock to get all my fish out (chalk bass, fairy wrasses and lawnmower blenny are all pretty fast and fit in places I can’t get to) I want to use the time to redo my aquascape.

Can I expect to come out of the fallow period better if my rock has been removed and had a chance to dry, my sand bed is stirred up regularly during fallow, and all that remains in tank during this time are inverts? QT is more than 10 feet away and in another room. I have no coral to worry about because I wanted to complete my livestock list first.

@Humblefish any advice/insight would be awesome!

 

[4tanks]

Surely you want to keep your rock in the tank to help keep the cycle going and for the inverts to feed off whatever growing on it drying it won’t help eliminate ich the lack of fish to host on will do that

 

[LeprechaunReefer]

Surely you want to keep your rock in the tank to help keep the cycle going and for the inverts to feed off whatever growing on it drying it won’t help eliminate ich the lack of fish to host on will do that

Correct and understood on drying the rock not helping to eliminate ich. But it wouldn’t hurt correct? I am also going to be going nuts without much to do in the way of projects so I figured I could rescape and recycle the rock without causing too much harm to the inverts.
Thought was to have the rock out no longer than 2 weeks and the sand would maintain a cycled tank. Then recycle.

 

[4tanks]

Correct and understood on drying the rock not helping to eliminate ich. But it wouldn’t hurt correct? I am also going to be going nuts without much to do in the way of projects so I figured I could rescape and recycle the rock without causing too much harm to the inverts.
Thought was to have the rock out no longer than 2 weeks and the sand would maintain a cycled tank. Then recycle.

are you running a sump is there anything in there to hold the cycle I personally wouldn’t rely just on sand others might tho

 

[LeprechaunReefer]

I have a fair amount of seachem matrix and would leave some rubble behind as well. Have plenty more matrix I could add too.

 

[4tanks]

Should be OK might have a slight cloudy recycle when rock goes back in

 

[blackstallion]

@Humblefish is your updated guidance for Ich fallow period that 6 weeks (assuming the DT temperature is brought up to 27C as posted in the below FB post) should be sufficient from a lifecycle perspective?

 

[rebels23]

So what is the new ich fallow period?

 

[rebels23]

@Humblefish had indicated he read an article that torments can survive longer under hypoxic conditions, only to rear its ugly head once temperatures were raised. Is it this article: https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/pdffiles/FA/FA16400.pdf

I also found interesting in that article:

"Yoshinaga and Dickerson (1994) observed, in laboratory studies, that theronts were released only between the hours of 2:00 am and 9:00 am, even in total darkness; some suggest this strategy increases the chance for theronts to find a host, as many fish may be resting or closer to substrate during this time period."

So if a fish is sleeping on the bottom at night and a torment just happens to release, is it possible the dwell time with copper is not enough to kill the tomites? I believe @Humblefish had indicated it may take up to 5 minutes for the copper to kill the tomites?

 

[LeprechaunReefer]

Anyone know if having a full crew of nassarius snails working through a medium deep sand bed is enough to break up the anaerobic/hypoxia areas to avoid a beneficial environment during a 76+ day fallow period?

 

[Sam816]

After an ich outbreak, I have moved my fish n corals to different quarantine tanks 4 weeks back. I left my sump running with chaeto n 2 snails. Iam going to dip/rinse all my rock n sand with fresh water for at least 24hrs. I am thinking of preparing dechlorinated fresh water and passing all bio media through it. Is it a good idea? Or should I move snails with corals n reduce the salinity level in my sump to say 1.00? The snails will never come to display tank. Will salinity level of 1.00 kill the chaeto?

 

[vcollins9850]

FWIW; Here is a scenario I encountered with brook ONE TIME that I still can't adequately explain:

A lady's clownfish (reg ocellaris, I believe) had an outbreak of brook in a nano reef, so she gave them a bath using a product which contains formalin. Against my advice, she put them right back in the DT and the clownfish didn't have a recurrence. This I've seen before, as outlined above. A full year later she moves a couple hours away, breaks down the nano and sets it back up at the new location. Shortly thereafter, the clowns get brook again. She gives them another formalin bath, throws them back in the tank, and it's been a year or two now and all is still well.

Now... I've seen this done before with very different results. The clownfish either keep getting brook or the 6 month rule applies. But this is the first and only time I've seen fish go more than a full year without showing symptoms, and symptoms only return it seems once the fish are "stressed". It's very possible what is known about brook and its life cycle is not fully understood by science.

I know this is an old post but your post is the only bit of info I can find that resembles my Brook situation. Mature tank and last fish (maroon clown) was added nearly a year ago. Only other inhabitant is bicolor angel that was first fish added. Last outside introduction to system Was a few coral frags around 6 months ago. Only 2 possible scenarios I can come up with.
1. I had a heater issue that caused tank to fluctuate 3-6 degrees for at least a couple weeks, if not longer. This stressed the clown and allowed Brook to thrive. Fish showed symptoms on Sunday, not eating and swimming at top of tank. Noticed signs of brook Monday afternoon. Fish dead by Tuesday morning. Hate losing the fish but mystery of source is what is bothering me since nothing New has entered tank in So long. Would be an extremely long dormant period but is most likely explanation to me.
2.highly unlikely, but can’t find any info. Started Adding 2 new foods (PE mysis pellets and liquid coral amino) about 2 weeks ago. Have you ever heard or suspected that fooda could be a source of parasite introduction? I dont think this is possible but curious if you’ve ever had suspicions.
Just wanted to add another example of the scenario you described

 

[brandon429]

I want to offer some work for the thread when needed, message me.

Sandbed cleaning is strongly associated with fallow and qt prep, its written how organics and sand grains form encapsulations around disease entities and to have a very clean sandbed seems directly in line with smart fallow prep or tank re do's

It seems that to always be in concern of harm or destabilization means many people are not addressing the sandbed as a source of disease locus and they could be. we have been told that to remove things from a sandbed is destabilizing, it's not and I feel the link below is earned proof. accepting counter links if a better way is known.

People have to move homes frequently on reef boards, and if you set up and manage home move threads you learn the real actions permissible in a sandbed. It absolutely does not harm, weaken, or destabilize any reef tank on this board to flip, rip, remove, or clean its sandbed all at once. Even if brs says it does, they're not correct.

If you want to work a sandbed in any reef pls post here, we will add you to the logged complete jobs.

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

I am fairly worried about moving my freshwater setup as it is fairly overstocked (reduces aggression as no one fish gets singled out). I did fail to think about the toxicity of nitrite on top of ammonia toxicity... Here is my plan for the cichlid tank. I have gradually reduced my pH from 8.2 to...

www.reef2reef.com

we can do anything you want to your sandbed all at once and never harm it. whether that's moving homes or prepping for cleanest no disease condition, all the same. So if you want to address your sandbed successfully to do anything you want, there's a no-loss work thread showing how to clean sand without loss. all of it. We don't have any entrants for the purpose of reinforcing fallow preps, that's a new horizon.

good thing we are 300 reefs and five years practiced
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