Back Again with another Ich Question / Concern after Fallow

[LagunaGlide]

Well my fallow period is complete, and all my fish have survived copper

That is all good, but I may have made a big mistake. Before I realized I had ich, I had removed a bunch of coral for another reason, and placed in a quarantine tank. At the time, the tank the coral went into had been fish free for a week or so.

Also right before the ich was really bad, and the fish were removed I had added a captive bred Mandarin. So when the fish were removed the mandarin went into the tank with all the coral by itself, and all other fish went into a hospital tank for copper.

The main tank has been fallow for 76 days, and I won't be messing with fish for another week.

Two days ago, I put a bunch of coral back into the main display with the idea that the tank the mandarin was in was likely ich free being that mandarins are resistant, and it had been "fallow" already.

My wife stumbled upon a post on a facebook group that a person who had a similar situation, was "ich free" after treatment, added a mandarin thinking it was immune, and now they have ich. So, she is concerned that we did all this for naught.

I could really use some sound advice on where I stand, and what you would do in this situation. @Jay Hemdal @ReefED!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Well my fallow period is complete, and all my fish have survived copper

That is all good, but I may have made a big mistake. Before I realized I had ich, I had removed a bunch of coral for another reason, and placed in a quarantine tank. At the time, the tank the coral went into had been fish free for a week or so.

Also right before the ich was really bad, and the fish were removed I had added a captive bred Mandarin. So when the fish were removed the mandarin went into the tank with all the coral by itself, and all other fish went into a hospital tank for copper.

The main tank has been fallow for 76 days, and I won't be messing with fish for another week.

Two days ago, I put a bunch of coral back into the main display with the idea that the tank the mandarin was in was likely ich free being that mandarins are resistant, and it had been "fallow" already.

My wife stumbled upon a post on a facebook group that a person who had a similar situation, was "ich free" after treatment, added a mandarin thinking it was immune, and now they have ich. So, she is concerned that we did all this for naught.

I could really use some sound advice on where I stand, and what you would do in this situation. @Jay Hemdal @ReefED!

Well, there does seem to be a couple of bio security breaks there, but it is really about “odds”, and those are difficult to predict.

I would just go into a holding pattern for now and just observe the mandarin closely. The longer you hold with no symptoms, the less likely there will be issues. I’d hold for a minimum of 14 days if all the fish are in stable tanks. 30 days would be better.

 

[ReefED!]

Jay is right

What’s your risk tolerance?

I had my ich fallow period fail - it was either from new fish in the copper system added 30 days before fallow ended, or adding inverts to the fallow tank

It was a frustrating nightmare and the DNA tests didn’t detect it… and I killed a very expensive hybrid tang in the whole ordeal. Now it’s in the system and managed and I can’t add ich sensitive fish.

Your mandarin probably doesn’t have it

But it could. How devastating will it be to go fallow again if the worst happens?

For me it was just a non starter due to tank size/ bioload / etc

Maybe it wouldn’t be a huge problem for you?

 

[LagunaGlide]

Well, there does seem to be a couple of bio security breaks there, but it is really about “odds”, and those are difficult to predict.

I would just go into a holding pattern for now and just observe the mandarin closely. The longer you hold with no symptoms, the less likely there will be issues. I’d hold for a minimum of 14 days if all the fish are in stable tanks. 30 days would be better.

Jay is right

What’s your risk tolerance?

I had my ich fallow period fail - it was either from new fish in the copper system added 30 days before fallow ended, or adding inverts to the fallow tank

It was a frustrating nightmare and the DNA tests didn’t detect it… and I killed a very expensive hybrid tang in the whole ordeal. Now it’s in the system and managed and I can’t add ich sensitive fish.

Your mandarin probably doesn’t have it

But it could. How devastating will it be to go fallow again if the worst happens?

For me it was just a non starter due to tank size/ bioload / etc

Maybe it wouldn’t be a huge problem for you?

Thank you both for the replies.

All tanks are stable, and I could "easily" wait another 30 days. I am also considering doing TTM on the mandarin. I did at one point buy some bumble bee snails to deal with a vermitid issue, brought them home, and realized I couldn't put them in the tank. They have been in a whole separate ten gallon tank all alone for about a month now.

I will say that my nitrates in the display have plummeted, and I have been dosing to get them above zero, but otherwise all is stable. I would hate to have to remove corals from rocks and remove rocks again to catch fish, and I don't suspect they will be falling for my same old tricks yet again.

I really don't want to "manage" ich, but being the first time I have dealt with it, it seems nigh impossible.

Just to make sure I am on the right track. 14 days deals with any "free swimming" stage, correct? They don't find a host, so they die. So anything that came in via water droplets on corals will die in 14 days, and cycle broken. 30 Days is if there was ich in the coral tank with the mandarin, and they encrusted on a coral skeleton or plug, they will "hatch" within 30 days, then look for a host, and die.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you both for the replies.

All tanks are stable, and I could "easily" wait another 30 days. I am also considering doing TTM on the mandarin. I did at one point buy some bumble bee snails to deal with a vermitid issue, brought them home, and realized I couldn't put them in the tank. They have been in a whole separate ten gallon tank all alone for about a month now.

I will say that my nitrates in the display have plummeted, and I have been dosing to get them above zero, but otherwise all is stable. I would hate to have to remove corals from rocks and remove rocks again to catch fish, and I don't suspect they will be falling for my same old tricks yet again.

I really don't want to "manage" ich, but being the first time I have dealt with it, it seems nigh impossible.

Just to make sure I am on the right track. 14 days deals with any "free swimming" stage, correct? They don't find a host, so they die. So anything that came in via water droplets on corals will die in 14 days, and cycle broken. 30 Days is if there was ich in the coral tank with the mandarin, and they encrusted on a coral skeleton or plug, they will "hatch" within 30 days, then look for a host, and die.

The tomite/theront free swimming stage of ich needs to find a host in a few hours to a day or they die. Trouble is, the resting tomont stage (that releases the free swimmers) can remain viable for 45 to possibly 60 days.

TTM might be an option, but any tank the mandarin has been in would be potentially “contaminated”. The mandarin is unlikely to feed at all during TTM, so if it is thin going in, that could be bad.

 

[LagunaGlide]

Thank you both for the replies.

All tanks are stable, and I could "easily" wait another 30 days. I am also considering doing TTM on the mandarin. I did at one point buy some bumble bee snails to deal with a vermitid issue, brought them home, and realized I couldn't put them in the tank. They have been in a whole separate ten gallon tank all alone for about a month now.

I will say that my nitrates in the display have plummeted, and I have been dosing to get them above zero, but otherwise all is stable. I would hate to have to remove corals from rocks and remove rocks again to catch fish, and I don't suspect they will be falling for my same old tricks yet again.

I really don't want to "manage" ich, but being the first time I have dealt with it, it seems nigh impossible.

Just to make sure I am on the right track. 14 days deals with any "free swimming" stage, correct? They don't find a host, so they die. So anything that came in via water droplets on corals will die in 14 days, and cycle broken. 30 Days is if there was ich in the coral tank with the mandarin, and they encrusted on a coral skeleton or plug, they will "hatch" within 30 days, then look for a host, and die.

The tomite/theront free swimming stage of ich needs to find a host in a few hours to a day or they die. Trouble is, the resting tomont stage (that releases the free swimmers) can remain viable for 45 to possibly 60 days.

TTM might be an option, but any tank the mandarin has been in would be potentially “contaminated”. The mandarin is unlikely to feed at all during TTM, so if it is thin going in, that could be bad.

So in reality, my only fool proof way forward is a fallow reset, and TTM for the mandarin.

Luckily she is good and fat! She gets to feast on an overloaded pod population. Unfortunately, even though she ate frozen at the shop, she hadn’t had to bother with it since being here.

I have done TTM in 5 gallon buckets in the past, and has effectively been how I have avoided ich. That was some time ago, with smaller fish, for a smaller tank.

 

[ReefED!]

Does your mandarin eat pellets?

I kept one in copper with pellets. In fact it recovered from a severe bacterial infection on its tail.

The whole “can’t put mandarins in copper” is a myth.

That’s your safest bet - TTM is really easy to mess up.

 

[LagunaGlide]

Does your mandarin eat pellets?

I kept one in copper with pellets. In fact it recovered from a severe bacterial infection on its tail.

The whole “can’t put mandarins in copper” is a myth.

That’s your safest bet - TTM is really easy to mess up.

I've not seen it eat pellets. I'll have to give it a try and see what it does. I can't imagine it would even look at a pellet with all the pods available.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So in reality, my only fool proof way forward is a fallow reset, and TTM for the mandarin.

Luckily she is good and fat! She gets to feast on an overloaded pod population. Unfortunately, even though she ate frozen at the shop, she hadn’t had to bother with it since being here.

I have done TTM in 5 gallon buckets in the past, and has effectively been how I have avoided ich. That was some time ago, with smaller fish, for a smaller tank.

TTM in opaque containers is risky - you cannot evaluate the fish properly.