Fed up with Apex

[ShawnSaucier]

I don’t want to thrash a company/sponsor. Nor do I want to write a novel on all the problems I’ve had with this system. I invested heavily into the Apex /Neptune system and it has not worked for me other than being an on/off switch for some gear.
I am thinking of switching to GHL, as I need a way to help monitor my system as I travel. But i have found it a little difficult to find reviews and such on GHL. Are there any other systems you could suggest?

 

[tupes]

Can you tell us some of the issues that you are having? That way we might be able to help you sort out the issues you are having. You might run in to the same issues with GHL. No matter how much a system cost or what brand it is, every system has something people dont like.

So let us try to assist with the issues.

 

[JoshH]

@Ditto made the switch and he hasn't regretted it for one second and he had quite the large system to switch over @WWIII Is an avid GHLr as well

Ditto has quite the extensive thread on swapping over and how to set up pretty much every aspect and feature GHL has to offer. I'll try and post a link for you

 

[WWIII]

Hey @ShawnSaucier honestly the two options at this point are Apex and GHL. There are a few other controllers out there, but GHL and especially Apex have the market darn near cornered. Another option would be a sort of diy approach with rasperry pi, if your up for that sort of thing.

Thanks @JoshH for tagging me! I will come back with my personal view on this and why I went with GHL almost 2 years ago, but my 2 year old just woke up. Lol. Basically it boils down to I wasn't happy with the apparent direction of Apex and them using their large market share to their advantage and not ours as reefers. There's plenty of people who are happy with Neptune, but I have no regrets in going with GHL almost 2 years later. GHL is growing leaps and bounds in products and their app has developed into a really nice user interface over the past year. @Ditto has done extensive reviews and comparisons. His thread here is a good place to start if you're thinking to make the switch and he is also very helpful in advice/help... https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/switching-controllers-from-apex-to-ghl.316106/

 

[Ditto]

@WWIII and @JoshH - Thank you did the Tag.

I do agree in the post above it is down to the GHL or Neptune Systems.

As I stated in my switching out thread two years later and no regrets. GHL has grown in leaps and bounds in both the web and app interface. When I did my original switch-out I had to use the desktop windows app but now..

If your looking for stability, reliability and like yourself I travel a lot you will not regret switching to GHL I can control and monitor my tank remotely through the app on my phone or the MyGHL cloud service.

If you do the switch out you will be able to tell day one the difference and kick yourself for not doing it sooner.

I just assisted another user who also had a large apex investment on the switch out. If you have specific questions on something your doing in the Apex And can how to do it it in GHL please let us know we are here to help!!

 

[WWIII]

Just coming back to this a bit. There is no doubt that Apex has a larger user base here in the US, they have for somewhere around a decade. Having said that the GHL user base is growing each and every day. The differences at this point, in the grand scheme, are kind of minor. Both offer very similar features. The way they go about it is different many times, but the end result is the same. That is when everything is working as it should! This is where GHL really shines imo. Their hardware is very very dependable. No weird stuff going on, no surprises, nothing freezing up or doing something unexpected. I set up 99% of my functions on the profilux almost 2 years ago, with drop down boxes (no programming) and haven't touched them since. I still have all the same probes, float switches, etc...

A major reason I went with Profilux was the stability. Another is the look and design of the hardware. Another is the product roadmap. GHL hasn't forced anyone to upgrade in order to use their products, you don't even need a profilux to run their dosers or kh director. They are constantly coming out with new/upgraded equipment and making it compatible with the profilux 3, profilux 4, as well as their stand alone doser in many cases. That means they are developing the app for all 3 at the same time in order to not leave behind current users of the different platforms.

I feel like Neptune's company started to change around the time of the 2016 apex and a little before that. They were releasing products like the atk that fit more in line with the "new version" of Apex. That is, make a product that seems great, but in actuality may not be so great, because the user base is so big and dedicated they will buy it no matter what. Then came the 2016 Apex, where they made promises of the Trident "coming soon" and you need the 2016 Apex to run it. I understand technology changes and new hardware is a must in some cases, but the way they went about it was a turn off to me. I feel like a good number of Apex users upgraded with the main reasoning being the Trident, which wasn't released till over 2 years later. Not too mention it seems to me the classic was better looking and a better built piece of gear. The way they develop products now seem to be focused on making them "pop" but less dependable.

During this whole time (a couple years) of Trident development, Neptune hasn't seemed to focus on the small things that make a company/product better. Some may feel like they don't need to because it is so good and they offer everything you need already? I'm of the mindset that I like to see a company continually trying to improve and develop new products, whether big or small. GHL has released many products that fit that mindset within the past 2 years and have even more coming this year like the ion director, 4 puck mitras (with wifi and controls built inside), the profilux temperature controller (peltier design), the profilux 4e, a brand new (beautiful) powerbar, etc...

I could go on and on, but that's the gist of my thought process here. I went with GHL and have been extremely satisfied! I now own a p4, 2 2.1 dosers, 2 kh directors, 2 maxi dosers, and 5 powerbars. It would have been so easy this whole time to stop investing in GHL and switch to Neptune, but they never gave me a reason to. I feel like Neptune's foothold is strong, their user base vast, and their marketing budget huge. Other than that I feel GHL is the clear winner in developing products that work extremely well and truly listening to what their customers want! They may not shove their products down our throats, but that doesn't mean they aren't great!

 

[User1]

I'd wager if you are having trouble with the Apex then you will have trouble with GHL or any other controller be it DIY Pi based or say Reef Angel. I'd go so far as to say if you have a sizeable investment with either product then before switching I'd do everything in my power to understand what the problems are, what I tried to do to mitigate, what those results are, and if I am able to overcome it.

On the other had if you are fed up and have money to burn then by all means find the next solution that you believe will work and be done with it.

 

[philosophile]

Personally, I threw my apex in the trash, after an awful customer service experience. Then they kept contacting me asking if I'd like a replacement several months after I've expressed my dissatisfaction with their service, on the condition I send back the unit. If they offered to replace the unit maybe a month later sure.... nope. Several months later they decided to start to make things right. They never let me work with a different service rep, they never were helpful or apologetic.

 

[WWIII]

Here's basically what the GHL app looks like in case you haven't seen it. Very easy to use and works from anywhere...

 

[Ditto]

The GHL app is a true app, and not a mobile version of the GHL MyGHL website or the P4 web interface. You get the same look and feel on all three interfaces. You can use the app on and off network also.

The front dashboard is customizable where you can add your probes, switch ports and so forth.

I like how clean and well laid out the interface is and even thou different then Apex Fusion it gets the job done







I do disagree with a previous poster that just because you have problems with one controller manufacture your going to have it with another

 

[ShawnSaucier]

So like I said, I invested heavily into Apex. About two years ago I decided to swap my sump and upgrade most of my equipment. My issues have been hardware and customer service related.
I upgraded to the new Apex (silver and Orange) with all of the probes. The Flo detector kit, auto top off, DOS with the containers, 6 Flow power heads, and multiple leak detection units. I think all said and done, about 4K in equipment upgrades invested in Apex.
1st issue was the Flo Detectors. They cut my flow by 80%. Spoke with a horrible customer service rep, re Plumbed the system 2 more times , with the same effect. And this was all hard plumbed, so it cost quite a bit in pvc and time. Needless to say, third time they said it was probably defaults hardware, send it in and should receive a new unit in a couple of weeks. Plumbing for a fourth time? No thanks, in the trash. Wasted money as it was bought as a Christmas present, had been wet, not able to refund and I wasn’t going to sell if faulty.
Next was the power heads. Again, pulled what needed to be exchanged. Placed and wired the new power heads in the tank. I started them one by one in the programming. 1st was fine, second sounded like a train, same with the third, fifth and sixth. 2 out of 6 had that wake you up from sleep “ something is wrong with the tank sound”. Again, a horrible experience with customer service, being told that they never claimed their pumps were silent. Look at you advertising I said. These got returned with the shop I bought them from. Even though they are told by Apex not to do refunds, think about that.. The owner has had several issues with them and there treatment of customers in the past.
The ATO died two months later ( pump), none of the leak detectors have worked. And recently, my containers for dosing have disappeared in MYApex page and I can’t get them to read or reappear and one pump keeps changing the dosing amount on its own.
I’ve had a local “expert” look at my programs, no issues, it’s just bad hardware.
So my issues really have been with their customer service being snotty over the phone and the equipment not living up to what it should. All was bought either locally or online between two of the major retailers. To have so many faulty and failing bits do me no good. Now I’m looking for a new dosing set up. I don’t mind spending the money to make it right, but treat me like a valued customer if there is an issue. And when there are repeated issues with each component that is added, don’t act like the fault is mine especially when the issue starts right out of the box. And now you want me to wait 2-3 weeks for a replacement. I bought it new today, it should work today. Not 2 out of 6 pumps. I can understand maybe 1 even 2. When I returned those pumps, we grabbed another box at the store to test. 1 worked and the other like a train. The owner was ticked.
So of course, GHL is the other system I had originally looked at for the upgrade. They don’t have the presence of Apex here in the US and that was the main reason for my original decision. I got bit in the butt purchasing a hybrid lighting unit several years before, by a large named European lighting company, that has a decent presence here but lacking customer service options due to having to send units back to Europe for repairs. Can’t have a tank go 6-8 weeks without lights..
Also since my home is IOS based, I had read that I may have connectivity issues with GHL.

 

[ShawnSaucier]

I'd wager if you are having trouble with the Apex then you will have trouble with GHL or any other controller be it DIY Pi based or say Reef Angel. I'd go so far as to say if you have a sizeable investment with either product then before switching I'd do everything in my power to understand what the problems are, what I tried to do to mitigate, what those results are, and if I am able to overcome it.

On the other had if you are fed up and have money to burn then by all means find the next solution that you believe will work and be done with it.

It’s not a money to burn situation in the least. It’s not receiving a product that has worked consistently. I don’t have tons of time to noodle with a piece of finicky gear. If the programming is right, but the gear isn’t working today, I should be able to replace it at the store I bought it at 2 hrs ago, not wait a few weeks for a replacement.

 

[Kyl]

@ShawnSaucier I am in the process of changing ecosystems to GHL, and have quite an extensive Apex gear set to replace. If you want another person to bounce ideas off of, feel free to PM. @WWIII has pretty much echoed what I've been feeling for a while in regards to Neptune's business behavior and product development process.

The only negative I can see for you, should issues arise, is the inability to just hit the LFS and get support with ProfiLux gear should something go sideways. GHL does not have that kind of reach in NA at all, but the support ticket system has been fairly quick for the inquiries I've had so far. @Ditto and a few others have been excellent for help as well. I think the opinion you'll hear from the longer term users is that you won't be running into those situations with things going sideways.

I wish you well with your decision.

 

[Ditto]

@Kyl - Thank you and well said. Support in the NA is growing along with the user community. One thing I will say if you do have an issue they do everything they can to resolve it, including removing into your machine to help assist.

Kyl is 1000 percent right you will not have those issues of things suddenly running sideways.

I also like to make sure I tell users to also join the #GHL Facebook group also

 

[Leadfooted]

I’m sitting here looking at my brand new Apex in the box that’s part of a new build. Not feeling so excited right now :/

 

[ShawnSaucier]

@ShawnSaucier I am in the process of changing ecosystems to GHL, and have quite an extensive Apex gear set to replace. If you want another person to bounce ideas off of, feel free to PM. @WWIII has pretty much echoed what I've been feeling for a while in regards to Neptune's business behavior and product development process.

The only negative I can see for you, should issues arise, is the inability to just hit the LFS and get support with ProfiLux gear should something go sideways. GHL does not have that kind of reach in NA at all, but the support ticket system has been fairly quick for the inquiries I've had so far. @Ditto and a few others have been excellent for help as well. I think the opinion you'll hear from the longer term users is that you won't be running into those situations with things going sideways.

I wish you well with your decision.

Kyl,
What you mentioned about GHL not being in the local stores was also an original deciding factor leading to the Apex. I may have convinced one of my LFS to try to start supplying GHL products, but more as to have a variety and differentiate from every other store in town. I may even order the gear through them to start, just so we all have a look at it together.
The issue I have with the other company is that they have placed a strict policy with their vendors that once the purchase is made refunds and replacements are to be done through the company only. So in my situation if my LFS owner wasn’t already fed up with them and their attitude, I would have driven to the store, purchased let’s say the pair of pumps, got home and installed, one pump not working, maybe two hours of searching for info online and a call to customer service, wait for email with the incident report and pack the gear, drive to post office and send the gear with the hopes of a replacement soon. A policy like this means they don’t believe to much in their hardware either, at least to me that is what it seems. What does it matter if they receive a return from a store or a customer?

 

[ShawnSaucier]

I’m sitting here looking at my brand new Apex in the box that’s part of a new build. Not feeling so excited right now :/

At least you can hopefully get your $$ back if you so chose. Again, I don’t want to bash, obviously they have a decent product and are the top seller here in the states. My luck and personal experience with them was great until I did the upgrade from the classic to the silver and orange. Since then, and like some others have said, I’ve felt that the reefer/customer has gone to the wayside in their mind.

 

[RobW]

Following along here. I'm in the process of building a 280 gallon tank. Im living the looks of this gear and interface. I was just going to run the Apex stuff on my tank but after seeing this, I'm interested in their products as well. I just took a quick gander at their site. Their lighting looks pretty cool too. Anyone e have experience with their lights and how they perform?

 

[Darrell Brady]

Ive also have the same problems with my equipment that your talking about. every time ive called it was my fault for not cleaning or over filling containers. just wait for what the trident brings about.

 

[Ditto]

@RobW - I am using both the LX and the slimline 2 and like them both. #GHL lighting provides quite a few options and settings. @Lasse runs slimeline 2, and has great results and you can see in GHL Facebook group some great tank picture using the lights on both lps and sps tanks.

@ShawnSaucier - I went from classic to gold to 2016 and feel the stability from the gold to the 2016 is night and day.