Fellow reefers, please help check if my summary is correct

[Xibin]

Based on long-term records and observations of my two LPS tanks, I’ve concluded the key points below:

1. LPS tanks have extremely limited phosphorus (P) uptake. Their nitrogen (N) demand is slightly higher than phosphorus, yet still low overall. Compared with SPS tanks, this is likely due to weaker mineralization, as well as poor nitrogen and phosphorus fixation capacity.
2. Avoid feeding frozen brine shrimp and frozen krill at all costs—they will cause a sharp spike in phosphorus levels.
3. Do not overstock fish. Even with minimal feeding, excess fish will drive up phosphorus from mucus secretions and waste, which inhibits coral expansion and health.
4. Overfeeding must be avoided entirely. With light feeding as the baseline, moderate coral food supplementation is acceptable.
5. Vibrio outbreaks are invariably linked to elevated phosphorus. Montipora discoloration and nuisance algae growth are typical signs of high phosphorus in the system.

 

[BryanM]

1: I don't know.
2: Most false from reading I've done. To combat "high phos" from frozen food many people thaw and rinse it.
3: While possibly true I have a very large issue with minimally feeding fish, this is just a bad idea for nutrient management.
4: This is completely system dependent. There are many people here who "over feed", and compensate for this by oversized skimmers, large refugiums, and other nutrient export methods.
5: I don't know.

 

[slingfox]

I don’t have a view on most of the points but #2 definitely seems wrong. If you want to keep phosphorus low, then feeding frozen brine (or krill or mysis) seem better than going with pellets or flake. I rinse my frozen food to remove more of the excess nutrients. My phosphates are pretty low at 0.04-0.05 and I need to dose nitrates to keep them detectable. I still have very low coral load. I used to have very elevated phosphorus (eg, 1.5ppm or higher). That was primarily due to over feeding of pellets when I first started in the hobby.

 

[Xibin]

I don’t have a view on most of the points but #2 definitely seems wrong. If you want to keep phosphorus low, then feeding frozen brine (or krill or mysis) seem better than going with pellets or flake. I rinse my frozen food to remove more of the excess nutrients. My phosphates are pretty low at 0.04-0.05 and I need to dose nitrates to keep them detectable. I still have very low coral load. I used to have very elevated phosphorus (eg, 1.5ppm or higher). That was primarily due to over feeding of pellets when I first started in the hobby.

Thank you, I will try frozen brine instead of dry food, see if my phos goes down.

 

[Reefering1]

I think this comes down to the rock you use.

 

[Xibin]

I think this comes down to the rock you use.

I use live rock, and I replace a portion of it every five to six months. In my 140-gallon aquarium, there are approximately 30 kilograms of live rock.

 

[gabelex14]

Dong Zou has excellent and interesting information about phosphorus levels in his tank and why he thinks that it isn't as big of a deal as we make it out to be. He references to what we consider ridiculous levels of phosphorus levels that he has in his tanks with no issues. I haven't experimented with it my self, I generally keep my around .06.

 

[Xibin]

Dong Zou has excellent and interesting information about phosphorus levels in his tank and why he thinks that it isn't as big of a deal as we make it out to be. He references to what we consider ridiculous levels of phosphorus levels that he has in his tanks with no issues. I haven't experimented with it my self, I generally keep my around .06.

My problem is if the phos goes higher than 0.2, issues occur one by one.

 

[gabelex14]

Dong Zou has excellent and interesting information about phosphorus levels in his tank and why he thinks that it isn't as big of a deal as we make it out to be. He references to what we consider ridiculous levels of phosphorus levels that he has in his tanks with no issues. I haven't experimented with it my self, I generally keep my around .06.

My problem is if the phos goes higher than 0.2, issues occur one by one.

I know this is probably hard to know but what's the time frame on how quick the rise is? Like anything in a reef tank nothing good happens quickly

 

[Fish Styx]

Based on long-term records and observations of my two LPS tanks, I’ve concluded the key points below:

1. LPS tanks have extremely limited phosphorus (P) uptake. Their nitrogen (N) demand is slightly higher than phosphorus, yet still low overall. Compared with SPS tanks, this is likely due to weaker mineralization, as well as poor nitrogen and phosphorus fixation capacity.
2. Avoid feeding frozen brine shrimp and frozen krill at all costs—they will cause a sharp spike in phosphorus levels.
3. Do not overstock fish. Even with minimal feeding, excess fish will drive up phosphorus from mucus secretions and waste, which inhibits coral expansion and health.
4. Overfeeding must be avoided entirely. With light feeding as the baseline, moderate coral food supplementation is acceptable.
5. Vibrio outbreaks are invariably linked to elevated phosphorus. Montipora discoloration and nuisance algae growth are typical signs of high phosphorus in the system.

1. System dependant, and not always factual, IME.
2. You can rinse. I don't, but you can.
3. Hahahahahaha. The secret to my success with acros is fish poop. Corals need nutrients, too.
4. (Also appropriate for #'s 2 and 3) Heavy in, heavy out. Again, system dependant.
5. Vibrio is in EVERY tank. Along with group A Strep, and Mycobacterium marinum. Lots of other nasty bugs, too; but those are the unholy trinity of you better wear gloves.

 

[Reefering1]

I use live rock, and I replace a portion of it every five to six months. In my 140-gallon aquarium, there are approximately 30 kilograms of live rock.

What do you mean replace?

 

[Xibin]

I know this is probably hard to know but what's the time frame on how quick the rise is? Like anything in a reef tank nothing good happens quickly

You reminded me, I realized that every time phos trends upward, it is accompanied by the occurrence of negative events. I should be paying closer attention to these quickly changes.

 

[Xibin]

What do you mean replace?

With fresh ones

 

[Xibin]

1. System dependant, and not always factual, IME.
2. You can rinse. I don't, but you can.
3. Hahahahahaha. The secret to my success with acros is fish poop. Corals need nutrients, too.
4. (Also appropriate for #'s 2 and 3) Heavy in, heavy out. Again, system dependant.
5. Vibrio is in EVERY tank. Along with group A Strep, and Mycobacterium marinum. Lots of other nasty bugs, too; but those are the unholy trinity of you better wear gloves.

In China, most reef hobbyists run the Berlin system yet maintain nutrients at an extremely low level. I’ve long been familiar with the heavy in, heavy out principle, which is why I’ve equipped my tank with a roller filter, an oversized protein skimmer, a large refugium, and other supporting gear. I feed my livestock almost exclusively with dry food.

My main issue is that nitrogen is easy to control, but phosphate keeps rising steadily. Once phosphate spikes, nuisance algae and harmful bacteria begin to bloom, and coral health deteriorates noticeably. This happens especially badly whenever I try feeding frozen foods like frozen brine shrimp, krill and mysid shrimp—nuisance algae and harmful microbes explode in no time, and I often end up losing corals as a result. For instance, my zoas easily melt away.

On the contrary, when I keep both nitrogen and phosphate at low balanced levels, all my corals thrive perfectly.

 

[Reefering1]

With fresh ones

Fresh? As in "dry"? Or different live rock?

 

[Xibin]

Fresh? As in "dry"? Or different live rock?

Not dry rock, salvaged from the sea two or three days ago.

 

[Reefering1]

Not dry rock, salvaged from the sea two or three days ago.

But why?

 

[Xibin]

But why?

Fresh live rock can introduce beneficial bacteria and nutrients required by corals. It really works. Live rock is very cheap here.

 

[slingfox]

Fresh live rock can introduce beneficial bacteria and nutrients required by corals. It really works. Live rock is very cheap here.

Very interesting. In China, are there a lot of people who also focus on growing SPS coral like acropora? I assume China also imports a lot of corals from Indonesia, Australia and Malaysia?

 

[Xibin]

Very interesting. In China, are there a lot of people who also focus on growing SPS coral like acropora? I assume China also imports a lot of corals from Indonesia, Australia and Malaysia?

Yes, many people, I hear that SPS coral in China is much cheaper than US, most of them come from Indonesia. However, the philosophy behind coral keeping is completely different from yours. For example, almost no people use sand.