First saltwater tank, stocking plan

[Luananeko]

I've been doing freshwater tanks since I was a little girl and finally took the plunge to start my first saltwater tank. Sadly, the wish list for my stocking plan isn't the most "beginner friendly", so I figure I'd run it by the experts here to get all the tips I can to give me the best chance of success.

Tank stats:
FOWLR - 65g version of "The Package" from Tampa Bay Saltwater minus sea stars, plus an extra 3" of sugar fine sand under TBS' live sand
65g DT (36"x 18"x 25") w/ pre-drilled overflow
CPR Aquafuge HOB refugium (Large size) w/ mineral mud, live sand, live rock
Trigger Systems Sapphire 34 sump w/ live rock & chaeto in refugium section
Reef Octopus AC20287 skimmer
Tunze ATO Controller with 10g reservoir

Current stock plan/wishlist (by planned order of adding):
1 Goby (Tiger watchman or a shrimp goby of some sort)
1 Firefish
3 male Wrasse (some combination of McCosker's, Carpenter, Filamented, Blue Flasher, maybe a Pin Tail Fairy)
1 Saddle Valentini Puffer
1 Mandarin Goby (ideally captive bred from Live Aquaria)

I've had the first half of the TBS shipment in the tank since the 15th and have the second half arriving tomorrow. Pic of current state of the tank is attached. I don't plan on adding any fish until January since I'll be taking our (currently) 4 month old daughter to meet her great grandmas around New Years. The mandarin goby will be added no earlier than August to make sure the pod populations are fully established. The tank will be fed 2-3 times a day to make sure the wrasses and mandarin have lots of little meals through the day on top of whatever the refugiums generate.

I've never cared much for the usual beginner saltwater fish so I'm hesitant to start with fish I don't like just to get experience. I find if I'm not enjoying a tank it's a short and slippery slope towards not taking as good care of it as it deserves. I'm hoping that by taking things slow, researching like crazy, and getting advice from experts I'm setting myself up for the same success as I would if I were to tackle an easier stocking list.

What do you guys think? Workable, or am I biting off too much? Anything I need to be careful of? Thanks!

 

[James M]

Welcome to reef2reef!!
The only problem is 3 wrasses against 1 mandarin competing for pods. The wrasses would eat all of the mandarin food .

 

[Luananeko]

Is there any way to ensure the mandarin got enough food by supplementing with bottled pods? Or would that risk putting too many nutrients in the system while being too spendy?

Maybe I can set up a pod breeding tank?

 

[SPR1968]

Welcome to R2R!

If your looking for non beginners fish, just read up on anything before you buy it as some are for advanced reefers, for example they can be difficult to get feeding and just die off. Others will eat our expensive corals!

Mandarins are generally best added to established tanks due to their feeding requirements

The puffer is generally for fish only systems and if you have any may or will eat your invertebrates

Great aquascape as well, very nice

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

Welcome! Looks like you are off to a great start!

The stock list looks great though I have no experience with puffers.

 

[Luananeko]

Welcome to R2R!

If your looking for non beginners fish, just read up on anything before you buy it as some are for advanced reefers, for example they can be difficult to get feeding and just die off. Others will eat our expensive corals!

Mandarins are generally best added to established tanks due to their feeding requirements

The puffer is generally for fish only systems and if you have any may or will eat your invertebrates

Great aquascape as well, very nice

Thanks!

I'm avoiding (intentionally) keeping any corals for the time being. If any come in and survive on the live rock with my stock, great! I've read that the valentini puffers will usually not decimate the inverts if well fed... I'm not adding any inverts other than the initial ones from TBS and the puffer probably won't be added for the first 6 months. If the inverts get eaten then, so be it, I won't try adding more. Would not having them hurt?

 

[SPR1968]

Thanks!

I'm avoiding (intentionally) keeping any corals for the time being. If any come in and survive on the live rock with my stock, great! I've read that the valentini puffers will usually not decimate the inverts if well fed... I'm not adding any inverts other than the initial ones from TBS and the puffer probably won't be added for the first 6 months. If the inverts get eaten then, so be it, I won't try adding more. Would not having them hurt?

Well it might hurt your pocket when they get eaten by the puffer fish as expensive snacks! Lol

Mmm ‘usually not decimate’.......

You won’t know if you don’t try and all fish are different so...

 

[Luananeko]

Well it might hurt your pocket when they get eaten by the puffer fish as expensive snacks! Lol

Mmm ‘usually not decimate’.......

You won’t know if you don’t try and all fish are different so...

Yeeaaah, hence why I only did the TBS package and not specifically buying any to give it a shot If they get eaten I can't mentally price each one as they vanish!

 

[Jmas4]

Welcome to Reef2Reef! It seems you know what you are doing and researched well. Very nice. This has got to be the nicest and most helpful forum out there. Questions are always appreciated.

Good luck and Happy Reefing!

 

[reef lover]

Welcome to r2r!!

 

[fabutahoun]

Welcome to Reef2Reef, as Shaun mentioned earlier I wouldn't add the mandarin to any young system that is running for less than one year. getting the mandarin to eat prepared food is hard and need time, so you need to have a constant supply of live pods, IMO refugium is must to have if you want to keep Mandarin.

I suggest keep the mandarin in your list but add it after 1 year.

About the puffer , smaller species of puffer likes this may do OK with corals, however it will eat shrimps, snails , clams and other inverts. Another thing to keep in mind that some puffers may have some toxins that will release if it is stressed or dead and it may kill all of your other tank inhabitants.

 

[Sailingeric]

I have a Saddle Valentini puffer. Mine does not bother crabs, shrimp or snails (YMMV) and gets along with everyone. They are one of the easier puffers to have.

 

[Luananeko]

Welcome to Reef2Reef, as Shaun mentioned earlier I wouldn't add the mandarin to any young system that is running for less than one year. getting the mandarin to eat prepared food is hard and need time, so you need to have a constant supply of live pods, IMO refugium is must to have if you want to keep Mandarin.

I suggest keep the mandarin in your list but add it after 1 year.

About the puffer , smaller species of puffer likes this may do OK with corals, however it will eat shrimps, snails , clams and other inverts. Another thing to keep in mind that some puffers may have some toxins that will release if it is stressed or dead and it may kill all of your other tank inhabitants.

Awesome, I'll bump my plan out to wait till next Thanksgiving before going for the Mandarin then. I'm hoping with two refugiums I'll have a robust enough pod generation capability to feed it and the 3 wrasses, but if anyone starts looking skinny I'll supplement with bottled pods or start an extra pod culture. I want to give it the best shot possible of working!

I didn't know that about the puffer having the potential to nuke the tank if it died... I thought that was only box fish or if someone tried to eat the puffer's flesh? Good to know!

I have a Saddle Valentini puffer. Mine does not bother crabs, shrimp or snails (YMMV) and gets along with everyone. They are one of the easier puffers to have.

Great! That was what I was reading too, so it's helpful to have first hand accounts to confirm it's possible I'll still be prepared for my CUC to become lunch if the worst case scenario happens though.

 

[Super Fly]

TBS rocks are awesome, amazing stuff!
From the pix it appears you are going with DSB (deep sand bed)?... if so then wrasse and goby fishes would not be a good fit as they'll burrow/sift/disturb the sand.

 

[lion king]

I think you are off to a great start, I've found it's best to research what you like and provide the best you can for what you you like, rather than to start with the "beginner stuff". It's really not rocket science, it's just that most people move to fast and really don't do the research before they add more difficult or specimens with special care to their tanks.

A couple of points I know, the valentini can and are usually nippers, many times becoming bullies to smaller more docile fish. If you like these type of puffers, check out the leopard toby, stays smaller and is alot more peaceful. Fish like the mandarin I would suggest setting up a small qt and making sure he is eating prepared foods before adding to the dt. A captive bred variety would be best and yes you can add bottled or purchased live pods to the tank. If he is eating prepared foods it's easy enough to target feed him if necessary.

 

[reacclimating 2 the hobby]

Welcome to R2R... all the great advice above, saving my two cents

 

[Luananeko]

TBS rocks are awesome, amazing stuff!
From the pix it appears you are going with DSB (deep sand bed)?... if so then wrasse and goby fishes would not be a good fit as they'll burrow/sift/disturb the sand.

Yes, it's a DSB, but I'm not doing it for denitrification. It's for looks as well as the burrowing fish comfort. I was reading that burrowing gobies & wrasse do better with more sand since it provides more food and better burrows. Is that wrong? I have a RDSB in my HOB refugium that will be safe from burrowing.

I think you are off to a great start, I've found it's best to research what you like and provide the best you can for what you you like, rather than to start with the "beginner stuff". It's really not rocket science, it's just that most people move to fast and really don't do the research before they add more difficult or specimens with special care to their tanks.

A couple of points I know, the valentini can and are usually nippers, many times becoming bullies to smaller more docile fish. If you like these type of puffers, check out the leopard toby, stays smaller and is alot more peaceful. Fish like the mandarin I would suggest setting up a small qt and making sure he is eating prepared foods before adding to the dt. A captive bred variety would be best and yes you can add bottled or purchased live pods to the tank. If he is eating prepared foods it's easy enough to target feed him if necessary.

Valentini are the more nippy/bully kind? Rats, I thought that they were typically on the more peaceful side. I guess it probably varies by individual and how well fed they are though. I like the look of the Valentini better than the Leopard Toby, so I think I'll give it a shot and be prepared to swap for a different puffer if he turns into a bully. The Papuan Toby was my second choice... Are they any less nippy?

If I can't get a captive bred Mandarin (they seem to be out of stock a lot) or one that's eating prepared foods, is it better to go straight into the DT rather than QT for more available food (pods)? I saw a few forum threads where people were saying that QTing a Mandarin was a bad idea because they tend to starve there.

 

[lion king]

Yes, it's a DSB, but I'm not doing it for denitrification. It's for looks as well as the burrowing fish comfort. I was reading that burrowing gobies & wrasse do better with more sand since it provides more food and better burrows. Is that wrong? I have a RDSB in my HOB refugium that will be safe from burrowing.



Valentini are the more nippy/bully kind? Rats, I thought that they were typically on the more peaceful side. I guess it probably varies by individual and how well fed they are though. I like the look of the Valentini better than the Leopard Toby, so I think I'll give it a shot and be prepared to swap for a different puffer if he turns into a bully. The Papuan Toby was my second choice... Are they any less nippy?

If I can't get a captive bred Mandarin (they seem to be out of stock a lot) or one that's eating prepared foods, is it better to go straight into the DT rather than QT for more available food (pods)? I saw a few forum threads where people were saying that QTing a Mandarin was a bad idea because they tend to starve there.

I've found difficult to feed fish are better in a qt, because you can focus on their individual feeding requirements and acclimating them to captive life by getting them on prepared food. For instance in a mandarin's case I would put some rock for pods to live in and supply the tank with live pods, feeding the tank with live brine shrimp then mixing in and swapping out frozen brine, then mixing in the other prepared foods I would be feeding my tank. What happens when you put them directly in the dt, they rarely convert to prepared foods, and if or when your tank runs out of pods, he's done. They will also be competing with other fish in the dt, so other more voracious pod eaters will rule.

The papuan puffer is similar in temperament to the valentini, you like what you like, people like them and have had great success with them. It's just an aspect of their behavior that I never liked.

When following advice on threads, always try to find the end result. You may find alot of these mandarins that go directly to the dt, do end up starving in the end. The exception is when someone has an established pod factory producing a hefty supply of pods, and careful as to how many pod eaters you have. I still find it better to focus on the mandarin eating other foods than relying only on pods, and this rarely happens when placed directly in the dt, it does take a bit of concentrated effort to get some to take other foods.

 

[Luananeko]

I've found difficult to feed fish are better in a qt, because you can focus on their individual feeding requirements and acclimating them to captive life by getting them on prepared food. For instance in a mandarin's case I would put some rock for pods to live in and supply the tank with live pods, feeding the tank with live brine shrimp then mixing in and swapping out frozen brine, then mixing in the other prepared foods I would be feeding my tank. What happens when you put them directly in the dt, they rarely convert to prepared foods, and if or when your tank runs out of pods, he's done. They will also be competing with other fish in the dt, so other more voracious pod eaters will rule.

The papuan puffer is similar in temperament to the valentini, you like what you like, people like them and have had great success with them. It's just an aspect of their behavior that I never liked.

When following advice on threads, always try to find the end result. You may find alot of these mandarins that go directly to the dt, do end up starving in the end. The exception is when someone has an established pod factory producing a hefty supply of pods, and careful as to how many pod eaters you have. I still find it better to focus on the mandarin eating other foods than relying only on pods, and this rarely happens when placed directly in the dt, it does take a bit of concentrated effort to get some to take other foods.

Ahh, that makes a lot of sense. Sounds like a QT no matter what is the best way to go then! It would certainly make it much easier to target feed the mandarin if I'm able to get him to eat something other than pods. Thanks!

 

[wesman42]

I think you may be underestimating just how many pods you'd need to supplement with that many wrasses and a Mandarin....you're looking at several hundred dollars a month. Probably a bottle a week or every few days.