First SW Tank

[jonnymod]

Hey guys. Recently I acquired a beat up, used, 29g aquarium. It's roughly 30x12x19. I'm gonna try giving sw a shot and wanted to take a shot at making this a bb fowlr. Preferably for bta/clown combo stock w/ some cuc but I'm open to other ideas for stock as well if that's not a good dynamic for this size.

So here's some progress so far. This thing was sitting outside my gf's brother's house, and it was gross! It had a bunch of mud inside, with some sort of river rock/pebble substrate. I actually got all the substrate out and obviously won't be using it for this build but definitely saved it for maybe another fw tank.... It came pretty clean. Used a razor and white vinegar for all the buildup inside and the sticky junk on the outside of glass.

Next, I got the stand together, tested it on the stand, made sure it was level, and painted the back and bottom with a matte black Krylon Fusion.

Then lastly, I water tested it in the garage for a few days, and went and picked up a glass lid. It does bow a little in the center but I researched this a bit on google and from what I read it seems 100% normal for this tank dimension w/o the center brace.

I think it's coming together pretty sleek so far. So my next step was probably going to be ordering lights. What I'd like to do, is have the lr, a clown w/ bta, and just a heavy cuc of the variety that don't mind not having sand. So from what I see the bta DO require specific lighting like the corals right? So any suggestions on a light? I'm not trying to break the bank on this project, but I'm also not trying to be super budget. I think I'd like to use some sort of light that has a sleek clip on setup, or I may not even be oppose to just ceiling hanging. I was also thinking a decent hob protein skimmer so I can have my powerheads at bottom since i'm running bb and get maximum flow and prevent any bottom buildup.

 

[blaxsun]

Very impressive transformation! Yes, the BTA needs the same lighting as for corals. An AquaIllumination Hydra would work great (and they're not insanely expensive). Based on your bio load you probably don't need a skimmer - just a good HOB filter like a Seachem Tidal. Good cleanup crew would be a small conch or two, spiny astrea snails and ring cowries for the rocks and some turbo and trochus snails.

 

[jonnymod]

Very impressive transformation! Yes, the BTA needs the same lighting as for corals. An AquaIllumination Hydra would work great (and they're not insanely expensive). Based on your bio load you probably don't need a skimmer - just a good HOB filter like a Seachem Tidal. Good cleanup crew would be a small conch or two, spiny astrea snails and ring cowries for the rocks and some turbo and trochus snails.

Thanks! While googling and searching amazon I see many different aquallumination hydra models of varying prices. Was there a specific one you had in mind?

So the protein skimmers primary function is removing solid waste from the water right? Being bb and not having any sand for any solid/waste to hide in I'd assume the bottom would be unsightly frequently. So my thought was decent powerhead current towards bottom since I wouldn't have any substrate to stir up, then the skimmer would constantly get the suspended waste. Does that make sense? So that aside, if I didn't get the hob skimmer why would the hob be needed if I were to run the eheim canister? Would the hob be replacing the process of mechanical filtration I refer to with the skimmer?...

Those cuc dudes look so fun. Just googling the ones you just mentioned has be excited to stock, lol. I think the lil cuc dudes may be one of my favorite aspects of sw so far.

 

[blaxsun]

I think a Hydra 32 would work great. Instead of a canister filter I would go with something like the Seachem Tidal. It will be far less maintenance and it skims both on and below the waterline.

If you need a HOB skimmer at some point this can be easily added, but with only a handful of fish I don't think you'll need it.

You typically want to direct your powerheads upwards to get more wave action and movement, but you'll find that even with a bare bottom tank that the flow will reach most spots in your tank.

 

[jonnymod]

I think a Hydra 32 would work great. Instead of a canister filter I would go with something like the Seachem Tidal. It will be far less maintenance and it skims both on and below the waterline.

If you need a HOB skimmer at some point this can be easily added, but with only a handful of fish I don't think you'll need it.

You typically want to direct your powerheads upwards to get more wave action and movement, but you'll find that even with a bare bottom tank that the flow will reach most spots in your tank.

So the hydra 32 lights I'm seeing are in the 400 dollar range. I was definitely looking for something a little less pricy, didn't think I'd need to spend that much on a tank that won't have any corals and just the bta and a few fish?

So I already have the canister so that was a perk, plus I'm not a huge fan of hobs at all. What would be the reason to buy a hob over an eheim? Ime their far inferior filtration compared to a canister so can you tell me why you'd suggest using a less efficient hob over a canister?

 

[blaxsun]

So the hydra 32 lights I'm seeing are in the 400 dollar range. I was definitely looking for something a little less pricy, didn't think I'd need to spend that much on a tank that won't have any corals and just the bta and a few fish?

So I already have the canister so that was a perk, plus I'm not a huge fan of hobs at all. What would be the reason to buy a hob over an eheim? Ime their far inferior filtration compared to a canister so can you tell me why you'd suggest using a less efficient hob over a canister?

If you have a budget in mind there are definitely more affordable lights out there (I'm sure others will have several suggestions).

Aside from the larger footprint, canisters are a freshwater throwback and will generally have a lot more maintenance. The HOB filters can also filter at and below the surface - eliminating surface film, etc.

 

[jonnymod]

If you have a budget in mind there are definitely more affordable lights out there (I'm sure others will have several suggestions).

Aside from the larger footprint, canisters are a freshwater throwback and will generally have a lot more maintenance. The HOB filters can also filter at and below the surface - eliminating surface film, etc.

I was hoping to not spend more than 100 bucks on lighting since I didn't plan on any corals. Is 100 not reasonable for a tank who's only light req occupant is bta? If not I could bump up the light budget but I'd definitely like to keep it below 200, this being a sw starter project and all didn't wanna go too crazy with $.

So from what I understand the hob agitating surface and below is a perk, but canisters turnover being much better than hob, here's my thinking. If I'm gonna spend 100-200$, why not get a decent protein skimmer hob, to run with the canister for filtration, as opposed to no canisters, no protein skimmer, just hob and still spending $ on the hob?

 

[blaxsun]

I was hoping to not spend more than 100 bucks on lighting since I didn't plan on any corals. Is 100 not reasonable for a tank who's only light req occupant is bta? If not I could bump up the light budget but I'd definitely like to keep it below 200, this being a sw starter project and all didn't wanna go too crazy with $.

There's probably a LED within your budget, just my experience outside of most mainstream lights is somewhat limited - so I don't have a recommendation. If you search around on R2R you'll find quite a few suggestions for LEDs.

So from what I understand the hob agitating surface and below is a perk, but canisters turnover being much better than hob, here's my thinking. If I'm gonna spend 100-200$, why not get a decent protein skimmer hob, to run with the canister for filtration, as opposed to no canisters, no protein skimmer, just hob and still spending $ on the hob?

HOB filters are designed for the correct amount of turnover for a given tank size, and as they're vastly different configurations they're not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

You probably don't need a protein skimmer unless you're planning for a lot more fish. If you have the canister you should certainly use it. It will work, and then you can reinvest the money in lighting, good test kits, etc. It's just that you'll find it's a lot more maintenance.

 

[jonnymod]

There's probably a LED within your budget, just my experience outside of most mainstream lights is somewhat limited - so I don't have a recommendation. If you search around on R2R you'll find quite a few suggestions for LEDs.


HOB filters are designed for the correct amount of turnover for a given tank size, and as they're vastly different configurations they're not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

You probably don't need a protein skimmer unless you're planning for a lot more fish. If you have the canister you should certainly use it. It will work, and then you can reinvest the money in lighting, good test kits, etc. It's just that you'll find it's a lot more maintenance.

No doubt. So what are your thoughts on something like this? budget light
I just fell down the rabbit hole so to speak as far as PAR goes. So google says anywhere from 150-350 PAR is sufficient for bta however I'm not seeing "PAR" levels on lights as I look them up. Is there some equation for the light wattage and depth of water?....

My apples to apples comparison was with the 4x turnover canister and 10x turnover hob rule in mind. I've never found canisters to be heavy maintenance so unless there's more to gutting and cleaning them in sw to fw I'm not sure what extra maintenance you're referring to.

So just to recap my thoughts, the sole fact that I'm wantin' to put in a bta is what's busting my bank on the lighting department right? Just to play devils advocate, say I go with a basic light w/ day/night settings but nothing special. The bta would be out in this scenario. Any other suggestions for stock? I'm totally fine w/ spending 150-200 on a light, I'm just weighing all my options. Maybe there are some cooler fish/stock ideas out there that I'd like more than the bta/clown. The concept of them pairing just seemed really fun to me. I just want lively, and colorful more so than anything else. The idea of the corals and anemones 'n' stuff sounds fun since I've never experienced keeping any of that, but I could always swap lights down the road. Or maybe get a nice light, nix the bta and there are some basic starter corals you'd suggest? I dunno, shoot me some other stock options/ideas!

 

[dedragon]

if on a tight budget i would go with either the smatfarms led x2 or 2x led bars like orphek or quanta. Both will put out a large amount of par enough for a bta. You could also do 1 smatfarms and 1 led bar and use the smatfarms to control the color and use the led bar (blue version) for par increase and color pop

OR3 Reef Aquarium LED Bar •Orphek

Orphek OR3 Reef Aquarium LED Bar, OR3 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 for Coral Pop Fluorescent Color Growth and Illumination – 5Watt Dual Chip LEDs

orphek.com

 

[dedragon]

No doubt. So what are your thoughts on something like this? budget light
I just fell down the rabbit hole so to speak as far as PAR goes. So google says anywhere from 150-350 PAR is sufficient for bta however I'm not seeing "PAR" levels on lights as I look them up. Is there some equation for the light wattage and depth of water?....

My apples to apples comparison was with the 4x turnover canister and 10x turnover hob rule in mind. I've never found canisters to be heavy maintenance so unless there's more to gutting and cleaning them in sw to fw I'm not sure what extra maintenance you're referring to.

So just to recap my thoughts, the sole fact that I'm wantin' to put in a bta is what's busting my bank on the lighting department right? Just to play devils advocate, say I go with a basic light w/ day/night settings but nothing special. The bta would be out in this scenario. Any other suggestions for stock? I'm totally fine w/ spending 150-200 on a light, I'm just weighing all my options. Maybe there are some cooler fish/stock ideas out there that I'd like more than the bta/clown. The concept of them pairing just seemed really fun to me. I just want lively, and colorful more so than anything else. The idea of the corals and anemones 'n' stuff sounds fun since I've never experienced keeping any of that, but I could always swap lights down the road. Or maybe get a nice light, nix the bta and there are some basic starter corals you'd suggest? I dunno, shoot me some other stock options/ideas!

Those lights wont work for corals, too low powered leds.

For a sw tank a cannister has to be cleaned out 2 to 3 times a week making it a worse choice than say a hang on filter like aquaclear or seachem tidal or better yet a sump.

You can also use 1 smatfarms for the meantime but it wont cover the whole tank as it is for a 24" tank but will allow you to start the tank up.

You will also need a powerhead, jebao is good for cheap just make sure to clean with citric acid and not vinegar

 

[blaxsun]

No doubt. So what are your thoughts on something like this? budget light
I just fell down the rabbit hole so to speak as far as PAR goes. So google says anywhere from 150-350 PAR is sufficient for bta however I'm not seeing "PAR" levels on lights as I look them up. Is there some equation for the light wattage and depth of water?....

My apples to apples comparison was with the 4x turnover canister and 10x turnover hob rule in mind. I've never found canisters to be heavy maintenance so unless there's more to gutting and cleaning them in sw to fw I'm not sure what extra maintenance you're referring to.

So just to recap my thoughts, the sole fact that I'm wantin' to put in a bta is what's busting my bank on the lighting department right? Just to play devils advocate, say I go with a basic light w/ day/night settings but nothing special. The bta would be out in this scenario. Any other suggestions for stock? I'm totally fine w/ spending 150-200 on a light, I'm just weighing all my options. Maybe there are some cooler fish/stock ideas out there that I'd like more than the bta/clown. The concept of them pairing just seemed really fun to me. I just want lively, and colorful more so than anything else. The idea of the corals and anemones 'n' stuff sounds fun since I've never experienced keeping any of that, but I could always swap lights down the road. Or maybe get a nice light, nix the bta and there are some basic starter corals you'd suggest? I dunno, shoot me some other stock options/ideas!

@dedragon has some good budget light suggestions. As he pointed out, the maintenance on a canister is significantly more when used for saltwater than freshwater. For instance, most of us replace filter floss or filter socks every 2-3 days. And if you don't stay on top of it your water parameters can quickly go out of balance. The order of preference is typically Sump » AIO » HOB » Nothing » Canister.

 

[dedragon]

your freshwater being clean is really important as well so i do recomend buying an rodi unit from like Bulkreefsupply or similar

Having to open the cannister up every 2 days is so annoying and dealing with water getting all over as well, i used one when i started 18 years ago and wouldnt do it again

 

[jonnymod]

if on a tight budget i would go with either the smatfarms led x2 or 2x led bars like orphek or quanta. Both will put out a large amount of par enough for a bta. You could also do 1 smatfarms and 1 led bar and use the smatfarms to control the color and use the led bar (blue version) for par increase and color pop

OR3 Reef Aquarium LED Bar •Orphek

Orphek OR3 Reef Aquarium LED Bar, OR3 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 for Coral Pop Fluorescent Color Growth and Illumination – 5Watt Dual Chip LEDs

orphek.com

Got it. So, while looking at the smatfarms I see people in the comments saying they're using 2 for tanks up to and above 50 gallons. How do I come to the conclusion I need 2 for a 29g? Just going off those comments seems a little overkill for my lil 29g. From what I'm establishing, clearly keeping bta, or any anemone is pretty much like keeping corals as far as requirements right? So is there a specific formula to follow to establish what type and how much light you need for these tanks? Like, I'm assuming depth is a determiner. Do different corals or anemones require different colors of the bulbs themselves, or just solely a certain "par?" I'm gonna go on a google hunt and read up on the lights myself as well. Maybe there is some write ups on the subject on the threads here. I haven't explored on here too much yet as I work 14 and 12 hour work days, but I'm definitely gonna explore the articles on my day off, Monday.

Those lights wont work for corals, too low powered leds.

For a sw tank a cannister has to be cleaned out 2 to 3 times a week making it a worse choice than say a hang on filter like aquaclear or seachem tidal or better yet a sump.

You can also use 1 smatfarms for the meantime but it wont cover the whole tank as it is for a 24" tank but will allow you to start the tank up.

You will also need a powerhead, jebao is good for cheap just make sure to clean with citric acid and not vinegar

Got it. So, this is sorta repeating what I mentioned above, but how exactly do you come to the conclusion that light is not powerful enough based on the light specs? Like what are you looking at to come to that conclusion, so I know what to look for while shopping.

Noted on the canister. Seems a shame to not use since it's already in my possession, but I'm sure it'll come in handy for another tank down the road. So, if sump seems to be the best I'm gonna go into my idea for filtration below this when I response to blax. I'll bookmark those powerheads, as far as those go I was under the impression all powerheads are just a fan, obviously some have more bells and whistles like the control functions and speed, etc. Was gonna do at least 2 and wanted one low to the bottom so it kept any waste suspended. (taking advantage of the bb and maximizing all column's flow)

@dedragon has some good budget light suggestions. As he pointed out, the maintenance on a canister is significantly more when used for saltwater than freshwater. For instance, most of us replace filter floss or filter socks every 2-3 days. And if you don't stay on top of it your water parameters can quickly go out of balance. The order of preference is typically Sump » AIO » HOB » Nothing » Canister.

Wow, floss and socks 2-3 days? I replace the floss on one of my fw tanks each week in the w/d when I do my wc, and thought that to be a bit excessive. So, nothing is above canister in your order.... I see.... Nothing I assume is just hvy flow threw lr and that is your filtration... Well, all that new info in mind how's this sound. How bout I go with an overflow box like this overflow and a cheaper sump like this sump ?

 

[jonnymod]

your freshwater being clean is really important as well so i do recomend buying an rodi unit from like Bulkreefsupply or similar

Having to open the cannister up every 2 days is so annoying and dealing with water getting all over as well, i used one when i started 18 years ago and wouldnt do it again

Noted, I'll add a rodi unit to the list. See, the beauty of this is it's a project. Not something I need to rush. None of this equipment is out of my price range by any means, but I also want to just work on this a little each week. So I am in no rush to BOOM, have it all setup. I didn't plan on this "project" being quite a budget, but it's totally feasible and I want to do it right and get what I need to have a successful setup.

 

[dedragon]

you wont need 2 but just 1. Maybe an led bar from 21led, orphek or quanta reef just for the extra blue pop and coverage it will give you. you may have shadows on the side without it

 

[dedragon]

i hate overflow boxes that are external as they are a liability for a leak if the power goes out and turns back on ( the siphon breaks). CPR made a good one with a tom aqualifter but idk if it is still around.

 

[jonnymod]

you wont need 2 but just 1. Maybe an led bar from 21led, orphek or quanta reef just for the extra blue pop and coverage it will give you. you may have shadows on the side without it

When you say extra blue pop do you mean just the effect of the blue light on the tank and the way it makes it look? In a SW do you run the daylights during day and blue lights all night, or is it day lights, blue lights, AND both off phase? We'll see about the shadow and I can always adjust or add what you suggested right? So I think I'll start with the one smartfarm however while looking at the comments I'm not positive it will clamp onto a rimmed tank, and if I have to pay 70$ for a mounting arm that will allow it to (I saw someone in comments wrote they bought a separate mount and i priced it at 70) I may as well add that 70 to the initial cost and get a better light. maybe I'm wrong and that can clamp over a tank with trim tho? I don't want to physically alter the trim to get it to fit.

i hate overflow boxes that are external as they are a liability for a leak if the power goes out and turns back on ( the siphon breaks). CPR made a good one with a tom aqualifter but idk if it is still around.

I've never used an external overflow.... I did a little research after your comment, and it seems like it could potentially be a headache..... You guys got me, I'll buy the hob and skip the skimmer and canister! heh' I truly haven't used a hob in ages though.... Really never been a fan. I find them to be quite ugly/bulky and inefficient. However!, this sw is a new game to me, and if they're more viable in the sw game I'll swallow my pride and start off with the hob you recommend. ;]

 

[dedragon]

no, by blue pop i mean actinic pop that brings out coral fluorescence

the seachem tidal actually looks pretty slick and unobtrusive if you havent seen them in person yet, a bit nicer imo than the aquaclear at least look wise

 

[dedragon]

lighting schedule is 8-12 hours depending on ramping up power controlled by the smatfarms led. The blue light usually is on either the full 12 hours or 8-6 hours if you see too much algae growth. Usually it is from the white leds that would be in the smatfarm that could cause more algae growth but just some good info to have at hand just in case