Fish keep dying but parameters are normal

[kryan13]

My money would be on not enough oxygenation. I would definitely start with increasing the surface agitation.

Also, I noticed you said you didn’t check salinity from the lfs, but you do check your tanks salinity periodically dont you? This may seem like a stupid question but when you have water evaporation you are replacing it with fresh water not saltwater aren’t you?

I’m not because I use the store bought water and do weekly 10% partial water changes. I haven’t had to add any water beyond that. Is that wrong?

 

[Gtinnel]

I’m not because I use the store bought water and do weekly 10% partial water changes. I haven’t had to add any water beyond that. Is that wrong?

As water evaporates out of your tank the salt stays in the tank, so if you don’t replace the evaporated water with fresh water your salinity will just get higher and higher. If you have gone months without adding freshwater to the tank I’d guess your salinity is way too high. If your salinity isn’t way too high then I guarantee you don’t have enough surface agitation to keep the water oxygenated. More surface agitation causes more evaporation, which means more freshwater needs to be added.

Also this is the same regardless of where you get your saltwater from, just because you buy pre made saltwater doesn’t change anything. It seems like you’re under the impression that buying pre made water makes a difference on what you need to do with the tank and it doesn’t.

 

[Tamberav]

so just to recap:

add a small powerhead for better circulation

Buy a refractometer and calibration solution and test salinity.

 

[kryan13]

so just to recap:

add a small powerhead for better circulation

Buy a refractometer and calibration solution and test salinity.

Will do. Thanks!

 

[kryan13]

If ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are all in order (as they seem to be) the next culprits would be temperature and salinity as simple as they sound. Temp should be 75-80F. Salinity should be ~1.025 specific gravity or ~35ppt make sure you use a properly calibrated measuring instrument.

High temp (combined with low flow) reduces oxygen levels which can lead to a slow gaspy death like you described. This is more likely if you have a tank with a sealed top which it looks like you don't so I'd say this is unlikely.

Elevated salinity dehydrates the fish over time also leading to a slow death after enough time. If you haven't been testing it consistently I would say that's the no 1. suspect. It normally creeps up when people replace evaporated water with more saltwater rather than fresh water. As I said make sure you measure it with a well calibrated hydromer/refractomer/whatever you're using.

If temp, salinity, ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates are all in order I'd do a mail-in icp water test to see if there's a mystery contaminate in your tank such as certain metals. Be responsible and don't add any more fish until you get to the bottom of it.

When you do add fish again just add one to start, 10g is a small volume of water.

I have a heater that is supposed to keep the tank at 78. It turns on and off throughout the day. I think you’re right and salinity seems like the most likely culprit. My LfS never explained that to me and told me to do water changes with the salt water. I feel terrible.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Hello,
Feeling discouraged and looking for some help. I started with my 10g tank around January. I’m a complete novice. It cycled before I added a yellow guardian gobie and a clownfish. After about 1 weeks, the clownfish got lethargic, stopped eating, laid in the sand and died. Admittedly, my ammonia may have been a little higher than zero then but not crazy. The guardian gobie was unphased. Then I got a royal gramma baslet and a few hermit crabs and snails. All was well for 2-3 weeks and then he got lethargic, stopped eating, started swimming in circles and laid in the sand and died. My ammonia and nitrites never spiked. (The crabs are kind of jerks and ate most of my snails, but other than that living nightmare, all seemed fine). A few weeks later I got a pair of banggai cardinals. One died almost immediately. Fine. The other lived for 2-3 weeks and was really doing great until it got lethargic and stopped eating 2 days ago, started swimming in circles and is now gasping on the sandbed. The guardian gobie is thriving. The crabs are living their best life. The remaining snails are probably living in constant fear that they’re about to be eaten alive but otherwise seem healthy. Why can’t I keep my fish alive?!?

if all inverts are fine, and fish are not its a disease issue. Also maybe add more shells

 

[Gtinnel]

if all inverts are fine, and fish are not its a disease issue. Also maybe add more shells

Did you miss the part where the OP has never added top off water to the tank? I’d start with that before looking into disease.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Did you miss the part where the OP has never added top off water to the tank? I’d start with that before looking into disease.

whoops. sorry, I jumped the gun.

 

[lobstermeet]

I have a heater that is supposed to keep the tank at 78. It turns on and off throughout the day. I think you’re right and salinity seems like the most likely culprit. My LfS never explained that to me and told me to do water changes with the salt water. I feel terrible.

Don't beat yourself up, it'll make getting the tank thriving even more rewarding! Get a refractometer and calibrate it and then see where you are at with salinity.

You are probably well over 1.025sg/35ppt but you can bring it down by syphoning out water and replacing it with fresh RODI water from the LFS or you can also use distilled water which comes in gallon jugs from the drug store. In a serious pinch you can use Aquafina brand water as it is purely filtered water with no additives. Do not use untreated tap water!

It is possible to top-off with tap water treated with dechlorinator. But it basically guarantees that you will run into algae issues down the line and may struggle to keep coral or inverts. I would only recommend it if you only plan on housing fish and have very weak lighting (like you only turn on the lights to look at the fish and turn them off when your not in the room).

I'm not sure what kind of tank you have exactly but once you have the salinity at 1.025/35ppt you will need to replace evaporated water with the fresh water of your choice every day or every other day. If the tank has an external filter, just make a mark on the glass with marker or tape and fill the tank back up to that mark with fresh water each day when you feed your fish.

If the tank is an all in one with a rear chamber make a mark in the chamber that contains the return pump (this is the only compartment where the water level changes) and fill it to that mark each day. It can be hard to make a mark that you can see inside an all-in-one return pump chamber and you might want to change the water level at some point. What I did was cut a plastic fork from a takeout order to the right length and then taped it to the lip of the glass. I made it so the tips are just barely underwater when the water level is right. Each day I peak in and pour RODI water in until the water level is back up to the tips.

Everyone sooner or later invests in an auto-topoff system so that they can go on vacations and trips without having to worry about this stuff.

The good news is I think your ammonia cycle is probably complete so you should be good to add another fish once you sort this issue out.

 

[kryan13]

Don't beat yourself up, it'll make getting the tank thriving even more rewarding! Get a refractometer and calibrate it and then see where you are at with salinity.

You are probably well over 1.025sg/35ppt but you can bring it down by syphoning out water and replacing it with fresh RODI water from the LFS or you can also use distilled water which comes in gallon jugs from the drug store. In a serious pinch you can use Aquafina brand water as it is purely filtered water with no additives. Do not use untreated tap water!

It is possible to top-off with tap water treated with dechlorinator. But it basically guarantees that you will run into algae issues down the line and may struggle to keep coral or inverts. I would only recommend it if you only plan on housing fish and have very weak lighting (like you only turn on the lights to look at the fish and turn them off when your not in the room).

I'm not sure what kind of tank you have exactly but once you have the salinity at 1.025/35ppt you will need to replace evaporated water with the fresh water of your choice every day or every other day. If the tank has an external filter, just make a mark on the glass with marker or tape and fill the tank back up to that mark with fresh water each day when you feed your fish.

If the tank is an all in one with a rear chamber make a mark in the chamber that contains the return pump (this is the only compartment where the water level changes) and fill it to that mark each day. It can be hard to make a mark that you can see inside an all-in-one return pump chamber and you might want to change the water level at some point. What I did was cut a plastic fork from a takeout order to the right length and then taped it to the lip of the glass. I made it so the tips are just barely underwater when the water level is right. Each day I peak in and pour RODI water in until the water level is back up to the tips.

Everyone sooner or later invests in an auto-topoff system so that they can go on vacations and trips without having to worry about this stuff.

The good news is I think your ammonia cycle is probably complete so you should be good to add another fish once you sort this issue out.

Oh man. It’s the salinity. Through the roof. I read that i should bring it down slowly as to not shock my guys too much so I did 10% change with distilled water today and will continue to do that until it’s a normal level. I’m so so so grateful that you helped me figure this out! Thank you so much.

 

[Gtinnel]

Oh man. It’s the salinity. Through the roof. I read that i should bring it down slowly as to not shock my guys too much so I did 10% change with distilled water today and will continue to do that until it’s a normal level. I’m so so so grateful that you helped me figure this out! Thank you so much.

I wouldn’t even change it that quickly your salinity dropping 10% instantly is a big drop. Just curious but how high was your salinity?

 

[Gtinnel]

Also, some lfs are great but I wouldn’t rely on them to give you the information that you need to run a tank. There are many really good YouTube videos that explain the basics. Or if you have a question this forum is a huge community of knowledgeable hobbyists who are more than willing to help.

 

[kryan13]

I wouldn’t even change it that quickly your salinity dropping 10% instantly is a big drop. Just curious but how high was your salinity?

Oh it’s above the top number. Like literally off the chart. Unreadable. Didn’t change at all with the 10% change.

 

[kryan13]

Also, some lfs are great but I wouldn’t rely on them to give you the information that you need to run a tank. There are many really good YouTube videos that explain the basics. Or if you have a question this forum is a huge community of knowledgeable hobbyists who are more than willing to help.

Everyone’s been so so helpful. I feel so grateful for the advice.

 

[lobstermeet]

Everyone’s been so so helpful. I feel so grateful for the advice.

No problem!
Just to clarify once you get back to proper salinity you'll top off evaporation with fresh water but still do your water changes with saltwater. Wasn't sure if we made that clear.

good luck!

 

[kryan13]

No problem!
Just to clarify once you get back to proper salinity you'll top off evaporation with fresh water but still do your water changes with saltwater. Wasn't sure if we made that clear.

good luck!

That’s very helpful. I was wondering about that.

 

[Gtinnel]

That’s very helpful. I was wondering about that.

I’d strongly recommend you watch some of the beginner YouTube videos. BRSTV has a really good beginner series that are very informative.

 

[kryan13]

That’s very helpful. I was wondering about that.

 

[kryan13]

No problem!
Just to clarify once you get back to proper salinity you'll top off evaporation with fresh water but still do your water changes with saltwater. Wasn't sure if we made that clear.

good luck!

Hey do you mind if I ask a follow up question? I’ve got my salinity stable at 1.025 and have been adding a bit of distilled water when it looks like it’s evaporated. I tried putting a measuring stick in what I think is the return chamber to keep the level stable but when I added more distilled water the level in the chamber stayed the same and the level in the tank went up. Not sure what I’m doing wrong. I usually do a 10% water change (salt water) weekly. I should still do that, right? Also I got the salifert tests and my ammonia, nitrites and oxygen are all perfect. Feeling on the right track but confused about my next steps.

 

[Amelanchier]

I’m new to Reef2Reef but I’ve had a saltwater tank for a couple of years now. I don’t have an AIO tank so I can’t answer your question about water levels in various chambers. That said, you are correct that you should do weekly 10% water changes with salt water and that you should top off the tank/replace water lost through evaporation daily with fresh water.

When water evaporates it leaves behind the salt (and other minerals) so your salinity will rise unless you replace evaporated water with fresh. Weekly water changes with salt water help with nutrient export so your phosphates and nitrates don’t rise too much, replenishes trace elements consumed by tank inhabitants (though this is more of an issue if you have corals and I’m not sure whether you do), and allows you to maintain a steady salinity.

Does this help with next steps? What are your hopes for this tank?