Fish loss

[JGStriker]

hello all. I am new to reefing

I have a 90 g, currently FOWLR. Tank was started in May with rock cycled separately. After a couple of months I had a pair of clowns a gramma a firefish and a cardinal fish. Everyone had been looking good. The fish then had a Period where they weren’t fed for two days. Since then things have been downhill.

male clown looked thin and dunken behind they eyes and was a poor eater. Then my firefish died several days later. Male clown continued to hang on but never ate and has disappeared. Originally, I was hoping that these were both due to just not being fed, and these being the smallest in heaven of the tank. Now today my gramma who was looking great up until yesterday was just laying out on a rock out in the open. He moved back to his cave after a bit but didn’t come out to eat. I’m assuming the worst as it’s not consistent with his normal

Today’s parameters are temp 78, salinity 1.025 ammonia .06. ( jumped up when the firefish died to .1 but has been down trending) ph 7.5 nitrite 6 ppb

The only other clue I have seen is one day, the male clown had a very long stringy bowel movement. Not sure if this is signs of a parasite but have not really seen that happen since. Does anybody have any thoughts what could be happening and what I could do. I have pretty good water movements

 

[vetteguy53081]

hello all. I am new to reefing

I have a 90 g, currently FOWLR. Tank was started in May with rock cycled separately. After a couple of months I had a pair of clowns a gramma a firefish and a cardinal fish. Everyone had been looking good. The fish then had. Period where they weren’t fed for two days. Since then things have been downhill.

male clown looked thin and ah Ken behind they eyes and was a poor eater. Then my firefish died several days later. Male clown continued to hang on but never ate and has disappeared. Now today my gramma who was looking great up until yesterday was just laying out on a rock out in the open. He moved back to his cave after a bit but didn’t come out to eat. I’m assuming the worst as it’s not consistent with his normal

Today’s parameters are temp 78, salinity 1.025 ammonia .06. ( jumped up when the fortis died to .1 but has been down trending) ph 7.5 nitrite 6 ppb

The only other clue I have seen is one day, the male clown and he wasn’t looking particular. You had a very long stringy bowel movement. Not sure if this is signs of a parasite but have not really seen that happen since. Does anybody have any thoughts what could be happening and what I could do. I have pretty good water movements

Ammonia is elevated. You want .025 or less.
Any chasing or aggression by gramma?
Does gramma show any rash or scraping on body?
Comsider uarantining going forward.
Were others prior to death breathing normal or labored?

 

[JGStriker]

No aggression at all that I’ve seen. I see no physical injury outside of grammas coloration may have been a bit duller over past few days. Male clown looked to be breathing a bit rapidly when I last saw him. Remaining two “good” fish look fine

 

[Jekyl]

Would be odd to see ammonia in a cycled tank that size. What tests are being used? For the best assistance please read through this post.

Some Helpful Hints When Posting or Responding to Threads in the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Section

Aquarium Fish Disease Problem Solving Determining the best course of action for a problem with your aquarium can be a difficult task. Even advanced aquarists will often need to seek the help of others for complicated or unique issues. Our intent here on Reef 2 Reef is to offer expert advice...

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[JGStriker]

Would be odd to see ammonia in a cycled tank that size. What tests are being used? For the best assistance please read through this post.

Some Helpful Hints When Posting or Responding to Threads in the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Section

Aquarium Fish Disease Problem Solving Determining the best course of action for a problem with your aquarium can be a difficult task. Even advanced aquarists will often need to seek the help of others for complicated or unique issues. Our intent here on Reef 2 Reef is to offer expert advice...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks for your response:
I am using Hanna master checker

I was cycling my rock in a seperate container using Dr.Tims. I was showing zero ammonia for several days with cycled rock alone, then added a couple of clowns to be ammonia source. To be honest, once I moved my rock, which was showing 0.01 ammonia , from my cycling tank to my display tank I’ve never really seen pneumonia consistently at zero. Never really had a massive influx of fish either.

Somehow, I feel like I either broke or stalled my cycle right when I set up the display

Other information, I am running a protein, scammer, still trying to figure out how to dial it in perfectly, also have a filter snack. I recently. Chaeto in my refusion because I was showing some nitrates. I also have a cleanup crew of snails and two shrimp, but none of them seem to be showing any sign of stress.

 

[MnFish1]

hello all. I am new to reefing

I have a 90 g, currently FOWLR. Tank was started in May with rock cycled separately. After a couple of months I had a pair of clowns a gramma a firefish and a cardinal fish. Everyone had been looking good. The fish then had a Period where they weren’t fed for two days. Since then things have been downhill.

male clown looked thin and dunken behind they eyes and was a poor eater. Then my firefish died several days later. Male clown continued to hang on but never ate and has disappeared. Originally, I was hoping that these were both due to just not being fed, and these being the smallest in heaven of the tank. Now today my gramma who was looking great up until yesterday was just laying out on a rock out in the open. He moved back to his cave after a bit but didn’t come out to eat. I’m assuming the worst as it’s not consistent with his normal

Today’s parameters are temp 78, salinity 1.025 ammonia .06. ( jumped up when the firefish died to .1 but has been down trending) ph 7.5 nitrite 6 ppb

The only other clue I have seen is one day, the male clown had a very long stringy bowel movement. Not sure if this is signs of a parasite but have not really seen that happen since. Does anybody have any thoughts what could be happening and what I could do. I have pretty good water movements

Are you measuring total ammonia or free ammonia. If you're measuring total ammonia - it would be below 0.25 ppm. If you're measuring free ammonia it should be much lower and preferably 0. Ammonia, though, doesn't cause the symptoms you're describing (and your low pH is somewhat protective), nor does not eating for 2 days.

The stringy poop may have been from a parasite - but if the other fish show no symptoms that is likely not related. Did you add anything new (Coral, etc)? What was the timing of the fish addition. What are you using for filtration?

As to your cycle, I would verify all of your test results since your ammonia doesn't make sense (one dead fire fish in a 90 gallon tank wouldn't cause a problem), and your pH is low. I don't completely understand what you mean by you were cycling live rock with Dr. Tims - but in any case. I don't think your issue is related to ammonia - the shrimp would likely not survive either.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

hello all. I am new to reefing

I have a 90 g, currently FOWLR. Tank was started in May with rock cycled separately. After a couple of months I had a pair of clowns a gramma a firefish and a cardinal fish. Everyone had been looking good. The fish then had a Period where they weren’t fed for two days. Since then things have been downhill.

male clown looked thin and dunken behind they eyes and was a poor eater. Then my firefish died several days later. Male clown continued to hang on but never ate and has disappeared. Originally, I was hoping that these were both due to just not being fed, and these being the smallest in heaven of the tank. Now today my gramma who was looking great up until yesterday was just laying out on a rock out in the open. He moved back to his cave after a bit but didn’t come out to eat. I’m assuming the worst as it’s not consistent with his normal

Today’s parameters are temp 78, salinity 1.025 ammonia .06. ( jumped up when the firefish died to .1 but has been down trending) ph 7.5 nitrite 6 ppb

The only other clue I have seen is one day, the male clown had a very long stringy bowel movement. Not sure if this is signs of a parasite but have not really seen that happen since. Does anybody have any thoughts what could be happening and what I could do. I have pretty good water movements

I'm concerned a bit about the low pH - it should be more like 8 to 8.2, The low pH itself isn't really an issue, but WHY it is low can be. Does the tank have good aeration (not just circulation)? Aquariums require good gas exchange to keep the pH up, otherwise there can be low oxygen and high carbon dioxide.

 

[JGStriker]

hello all. I am new to reefing

I have a 90 g, currently FOWLR. Tank was started in May with rock cycled separately. After a couple of months I had a pair of clowns a gramma a firefish and a cardinal fish. Everyone had been looking good. The fish then had a Period where they weren’t fed for two days. Since then things have been downhill.

male clown looked thin and dunken behind they eyes and was a poor eater. Then my firefish died several days later. Male clown continued to hang on but never ate and has disappeared. Originally, I was hoping that these were both due to just not being fed, and these being the smallest in heaven of the tank. Now today my gramma who was looking great up until yesterday was just laying out on a rock out in the open. He moved back to his cave after a bit but didn’t come out to eat. I’m assuming the worst as it’s not consistent with his normal

Today’s parameters are temp 78, salinity 1.025 ammonia .06. ( jumped up when the firefish died to .1 but has been down trending) ph 7.5 nitrite 6 ppb

The only other clue I have seen is one day, the male clown had a very long stringy bowel movement. Not sure if this is signs of a parasite but have not really seen that happen since. Does anybody have any thoughts what could be happening and what I could do. I have pretty good water movements

Are you measuring total ammonia or free ammonia. If you're measuring total ammonia - it would be below 0.25 ppm. If you're measuring free ammonia it should be much lower and preferably 0. Ammonia, though, doesn't cause the symptoms you're describing (and your low pH is somewhat protective), nor does not eating for 2 days.

The stringy poop may have been from a parasite - but if the other fish show no symptoms that is likely not related. Did you add anything new (Coral, etc)? What was the timing of the fish addition. What are you using for filtration?

As to your cycle, I would verify all of your test results since your ammonia doesn't make sense (one dead fire fish in a 90 gallon tank wouldn't cause a problem), and your pH is low. I don't completely understand what you mean by you were cycling live rock with Dr. Tims - but in any case. I don't think your issue is related to ammonia - the shrimp would likely not survive either.

I have the Hanna master checker which I believe measures the total ammonia

2 clowns gramma and firefish were in the tank since June. Cardinalfish was added at beginning of July. First signs of distress of firefish and male clown began probably a week into July.

Only other additions were some snails and chaeto

I am running a sump with filter sock and skimmer. I have gyro power head at the surface trying to churn the water. I do have a glass top but am leaving it open more often due to the ph

 

[JGStriker]

My wife stimulated him to move a bit with frozen music’s but he otherwise just perches on this rock

 

[JGStriker]

hello all. I am new to reefing

I have a 90 g, currently FOWLR. Tank was started in May with rock cycled separately. After a couple of months I had a pair of clowns a gramma a firefish and a cardinal fish. Everyone had been looking good. The fish then had a Period where they weren’t fed for two days. Since then things have been downhill.

male clown looked thin and dunken behind they eyes and was a poor eater. Then my firefish died several days later. Male clown continued to hang on but never ate and has disappeared. Originally, I was hoping that these were both due to just not being fed, and these being the smallest in heaven of the tank. Now today my gramma who was looking great up until yesterday was just laying out on a rock out in the open. He moved back to his cave after a bit but didn’t come out to eat. I’m assuming the worst as it’s not consistent with his normal

Today’s parameters are temp 78, salinity 1.025 ammonia .06. ( jumped up when the firefish died to .1 but has been down trending) ph 7.5 nitrite 6 ppb

The only other clue I have seen is one day, the male clown had a very long stringy bowel movement. Not sure if this is signs of a parasite but have not really seen that happen since. Does anybody have any thoughts what could be happening and what I could do. I have pretty good water movements

Are you measuring total ammonia or free ammonia. If you're measuring total ammonia - it would be below 0.25 ppm. If you're measuring free ammonia it should be much lower and preferably 0. Ammonia, though, doesn't cause the symptoms you're describing (and your low pH is somewhat protective), nor does not eating for 2 days.

The stringy poop may have been from a parasite - but if the other fish show no symptoms that is likely not related. Did you add anything new (Coral, etc)? What was the timing of the fish addition. What are you using for filtration?

As to your cycle, I would verify all of your test results since your ammonia doesn't make sense (one dead fire fish in a 90 gallon tank wouldn't cause a problem), and your pH is low. I don't completely understand what you mean by you were cycling live rock with Dr. Tims - but in any case. I don't think your issue is related to ammonia - the shrimp would likely not survive either.

Also ammonia is measuring at .06 as of yesterday

 

[MnFish1]

Also ammonia is measuring at .06 as of yesterday

A total ammonia (this is really important) - to 0.06 is not an issue - a free ammonia at this level is. I would (if I were you) consider @Jay Hemdal 's comments about the pH

 

[JGStriker]

Also ammonia is measuring at .06 as of yesterday

A total ammonia (this is really important) - to 0.06 is not an issue - a free ammonia at this level is. I would (if I were you) consider @Jay Hemdal 's comments about the pH

I guess the next question becomes how do you really assess this. I have a gyre sitting right at the surface of the water agitating so I would’ve assumed good oxygenation. Honestly, I have turned down the flow a little bit just because I was worried this could also be causing some additional stress I also have a corner overflow with water going down to some, running a protein skimmer, which I think would also help oxygenate

 

[MnFish1]

I guess the next question becomes how do you really assess this. I have a gyre sitting right at the surface of the water agitating so I would’ve assumed good oxygenation. Honestly, I have turned down the flow a little bit just because I was worried this could also be causing some additional stress I also have a corner overflow with water going down to some, running a protein skimmer, which I think would also help oxygenate

I don't think there is an ammonia issue - the pH results can be explained one of 3 ways 1. You're adding something to the tank decreasing the pH (can't think of anything except overfeeding) 2. your pH test is way off (more likely). 3. Something else - your gyre, etc and protein skimmer should help with CO2 removal - I would look at something in your house - or again an error in your testing.

 

[JGStriker]

I guess the next question becomes how do you really assess this. I have a gyre sitting right at the surface of the water agitating so I would’ve assumed good oxygenation. Honestly, I have turned down the flow a little bit just because I was worried this could also be causing some additional stress I also have a corner overflow with water going down to some, running a protein skimmer, which I think would also help oxygenate

I don't think there is an ammonia issue - the pH results can be explained one of 3 ways 1. You're adding something to the tank decreasing the pH (can't think of anything except overfeeding) 2. your pH test is way off (more likely). 3. Something else - your gyre, etc and protein skimmer should help with CO2 removal - I would look at something in your house - or again an error in your testing.

I am adding nothing to the tank besides food, could be over feeding a bit, but I really try to not overdo it. My house is pretty airtight so I do think that this could be playing a factor in my pH. I also have a glass lid. I have been considering moving over to a mesh lid to increase gas exchange.

I am working under the assumption that a Hanna checker is a reliable tool to assess pH. My alkalinity has also consistently been a bit low, which would support the test.

 

[MnFish1]

I am adding nothing to the tank besides food, could be over feeding a bit, but I really try to not overdo it. My house is pretty airtight so I do think that this could be playing a factor in my pH. I also have a glass lid. I have been considering moving over to a mesh lid to increase gas exchange.

I am working under the assumption that a Hanna checker is a reliable tool to assess pH. My alkalinity has also consistently been a bit low, which would support the test.

I think it's always a good idea to check 1 test with another when it's off. There have been a couple threads here about covers not really affecting pH - plus you. have a skimmer and a sump - and I assume your sump is not covered. I would recheck it. I would also consider increasing your flow.

Is your ammonia total or free. Remember it's the free ammonia (NH3) that is very toxic. And if you do increase your pH, more NH4 will be converted to NH3.

I'm still thinking that your parameters are not the issue with your fish but rather a disease.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have the Hanna master checker which I believe measures the total ammonia

2 clowns gramma and firefish were in the tank since June. Cardinalfish was added at beginning of July. First signs of distress of firefish and male clown began probably a week into July.

Only other additions were some snails and chaeto

I am running a sump with filter sock and skimmer. I have gyro power head at the surface trying to churn the water. I do have a glass top but am leaving it open more often due to the ph

One thing you can try is to take a cup of tank water, measure the pH and then aerate it for 8 hours. Measure it again and If the pH is the same, then gas exchange in the tank is good. If the pH rises, then that means carbon dioxide levels are high in the tank.

 

[MnFish1]

My wife stimulated him to move a bit with frozen music’s but he otherwise just perches on this rock

Unfortunately, I can't see the video - can you upload a YouTube video?

 

[W31Olds]

I looked at the video of your gramma and I don't see much of a problem. These fish like to hide on small holes in the rock when threatened or stressed. Mine is about the same size as yours and will find holes in rocks as small as 1/2 inch and completely disappear. As Jay said your pH is low and you should not be seeing Ammonia even with a dead fish in your tank. I would do two things. 1. Plan for a pathogen popping up and have a hospital Tank read to go and have Copperpower and Prazi ready. 2. I hear a lot of commotion on your video. Ask your kids if they are feeding or sticking their hands in your tank and try to step away to reduce the stress on your fish.

 

[JGStriker]

I am adding nothing to the tank besides food, could be over feeding a bit, but I really try to not overdo it. My house is pretty airtight so I do think that this could be playing a factor in my pH. I also have a glass lid. I have been considering moving over to a mesh lid to increase gas exchange.

I am working under the assumption that a Hanna checker is a reliable tool to assess pH. My alkalinity has also consistently been a bit low, which would support the test.

I think it's always a good idea to check 1 test with another when it's off. There have been a couple threads here about covers not really affecting pH - plus you. have a skimmer and a sump - and I assume your sump is not covered. I would recheck it. I would also consider increasing your flow.

Is your ammonia total or free. Remember it's the free ammonia (NH3) that is very toxic. And if you do increase your pH, more NH4 will be converted to NH3.

I'm still thinking that your parameters are not the issue with your fish but rather a disease.

PH trend it up to 7.8. I use the hanna checker which I believe checks total ammonia. You are correct the sump isn’t closed, but my stand really doesn’t have a lot of ventilation in and of itself with only a few small holes, cut into the back for cords and plumbing, although the doors are far from airtight.

 

[JGStriker]

I looked at the video of your gramma and I don't see much of a problem. These fish like to hide on small holes in the rock when threatened or stressed. Mine is about the same size as yours and will find holes in rocks as small as 1/2 inch and completely disappear. As Jay said your pH is low and you should not be seeing Ammonia even with a dead fish in your tank. I would do two things. 1. Plan for a pathogen popping up and have a hospital Tank read to go and have Copperpower and Prazi ready. 2. I hear a lot of commotion on your video. Ask your kids if they are feeding or sticking their hands in your tank and try to step away to reduce the stress on your fish.

As of this morning, both the clown and the gramma have died. The clown probably died more than overnight as his body had been pretty well eaten by shrimp. The Gramma hadnt been completely destroyed yet. I didn’t really see any obvious discoloration or wounds outside of normal scavenging from the shrimp who had him when I found him. I also assume this is more likely to be disease, but have never experienced anything before so unsure what to potentially treat. I do have a 28 gallon tank in my basement. I can start up, just not sure what to treat at this point.